Topic: for onstage? cards or hypers or other?

[svenkid]

TS-
I have tried using cards and hypers on stage to record garaj mahal, and I can tell a diff and it sounds like the cards pick up a wider range of the music.

ex. I taped garaj w/ josephson cards, and it sounds sweet 10/10/04 on the archive or 4/23/05 on the archive.
but with the mbho hypers, I ran onstage for 11/29/05 on archive, and I wasnt too happy with the results. maybe I was just being to critical.

anyway, whats the consensus? I know my experiment wasnt totally controlled but I tried 

[balou2]

I prefer the widest possible polarity for onstage...I'd choose omnis over just about anything else for stage, unless it's a HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE stage, then I MIGHT consider cards.  I would NEVER use hypers onstage, unless I needed some sort of directionality.  On-stage, I generally WANT to pick up as much as possible.

[svenkid]

that's what I figured, but when garaj came, all I had was hypers, so I ran them 

and I listened extra critically bc I new it would be less than optimal

rest asured either the cards or omnis are coming out next time 

[Nick's Picks]

try them XY, a little wider than 90deg next time you *have to use those mbhos*

[grider]

hey Carl, this may help, I taped two different Fareed Haque shows recently, in the same venue and from exactly the same spot on the stage, they are the two newest Fareed shows on the archive and they are both excellent; the 2005 show was recorded with hypers, the 2006 show was recorded with cardiods; the cards sound better, since they capture a wider sound stage and since they don't have a rear lobe and thus don't pick up on the background noise behind the mics; I would say definitely go with the cards, but give the recordings a listen and decide for yourself

[TNJazz]

You might also want to try spaced subcards with those U89's...

[Shawn]

hey Carl, this may help, I taped two different Fareed Haque shows recently, in the same venue and from exactly the same spot on the stage, they are the two newest Fareed shows on the archive and they are both excellent; the 2005 show was recorded with hypers, the 2006 show was recorded with cardiods; the cards sound better, since they capture a wider sound stage and since they don't have a rear lobe and thus don't pick up on the background noise behind the mics; I would say definitely go with the cards, but give the recordings a listen and decide for yourself

here are the links for those shows. so you don't want to dig around for them...

Hypers: http://www.archive.org/details/fhg2005-02-26.flac16
Cards: http://www.archive.org/details/fhg2006-04-15.flac16

[mterry]

hey Carl, this may help, I taped two different Fareed Haque shows recently, in the same venue and from exactly the same spot on the stage, they are the two newest Fareed shows on the archive and they are both excellent; the 2005 show was recorded with hypers, the 2006 show was recorded with cardiods; the cards sound better, since they capture a wider sound stage and since they don't have a rear lobe and thus don't pick up on the background noise behind the mics; I would say definitely go with the cards, but give the recordings a listen and decide for yourself

here are the links for those shows. so you don't want to dig around for them...

Hypers: http://www.archive.org/details/fhg2005-02-26.flac16
Cards: http://www.archive.org/details/fhg2006-04-15.flac16

I was looking around for the Hyper/Card info, and found it. The hypers still sound find for onstage, but you are right about the cards.......by the way, great tapes!

[Nick's Picks]

I've decided that stage taping Garaj just doesn't work out all too well.

[GroundHog420]

I don't have the answer, but I've asked different folks about this in the past, and I've gotten a wide range of answers that just leaves me back at square one.

A few years ago, I ran a pair of omnis on stage lip for a Meat Puppets show, and it was pure distortion. I was primarily trying to capture a solid stage sound, because another taper was patched into the SBD, and I thought we could synch a post-matrix, with vocals from his source, and guitars from mine. I ran a second pair of omnis from the side of the stage, and it was clean - even got a good deal of vocals from the stage monitors. Later, when I talked with someone about the distorted recording from the lip, I was told that I should have used omnis for in front of the amps.

Here in Portland, I recorded a guitar + bass duo (definitely NOT pretty quiet lite music) at a gallery, and close-miked each amp, using cards. The bass amp overloaded slightly, but not much; the guitar (which was equally loud and noisy) was clear as a bell. Split-channel separation of course, but that recording could easily be their next album. I did not use omnis because I knew the bass would be extremely loud, and I wanted to mic the amp, not the room. The room itself was a concrete echo chamber, and I figured that using the omnis would pick up a lot of the echo, which I wanted to keep out of the recording.

I just recorded two bands at a house show this past weekend, using a pair of cards - a noisy industrial group, and a whisperingly quiet semi-acoustic duo. The industrial group was recorded front + center, mics panned about 90 degrees.  For the duo, I ran one card at a weird cross-angle in front of the vocal speaker and the guitar amp, and the other mic at an opposing angle in front of the bass amp and the guitar amp. Forgiving a little channel separation, near-album quality, keeping the audience sounds to a minimum. The reason I did not use omnis is because I wanted to keep the audience out of the "mix", since there was no real division between "stage" and audience, and my goal was pretty well accomplished.

Okay, I know these are all different stories, and I certainly have more, but the point is that in every instance, I get drastically different results. Nothing consistent from each set-up to the next, and my overall consensus is that it's all a certain amount of trial and error. I'm not crazy about that idea, but it seems to be the case.

What I'm wondering these days, is when I have any use for omnis at all, since I'm not really interested in hearing the audience, or even the acoustics of most rooms, which generally sound pretty bad to my ears.

[tgakidis]

Split subs Rule!