Topic: When is the W-Mod actually in use?

[pfife]

Does anyone know if you have to have the phantom power running in order to get the effects of the W-Mod in a W-Mod UA-5?

IOW, can you run the following, and still get the w-mod effect:

mics -> bb -> attenuator -> 1/8" to xlr adaptor -> Wmod UA-5

Thanks for your response

[mirth]

Doesn't it affect anything that goes through the gain stage? IIRC you even get a little benefit of doug's mods when using the RCA inputs but not as much as when going XLR in.

[pfife]

Nice- that's what I like to hear! 

 +t

Anybody!  Keep any more knowledge regarding this coming!  Thanks!

[Chanher]

the mod affects the adc as well as the dac stage.  so if you're using the dig out then you are reaping benefits...

[pfife]

the mod affects the adc as well as the dac stage.  so if you're using the dig out then you are reaping benefits...

thanks-  +t

[mirth]

the mod affects the adc as well as the dac stage.  so if you're using the dig out then you are reaping benefits...

that doesn't make sense.... care to enlighten?

[dnsacks]

My understanding of the effects of the warm mod and presence mod are quite different. 

I thought that for these, doug only modified the analog circuitry on the microphone inputs  and did not modify the analog circuitry on the line inputs or the outputs.  Thus, if the signal is fed via mic in (with or without phantom), the benefits of the warm or presence mod are realized.  OTOH, if the signal is fed via the line inputs (RCAs on back), no warm or presence mod benefits will be realized.

Finally, to muddy the waters, it's my understanding that the mods performed by doug for the Transparent mod (tmod) DO enhance the line in (rcas on rear), unlike the pmod or wmod.

[dklein]

Does anyone know if you have to have the phantom power running in order to get the effects of the W-Mod in a W-Mod UA-5?

IOW, can you run the following, and still get the w-mod effect:

mics -> bb -> attenuator -> 1/8" to xlr adaptor -> Wmod UA-5

Thanks for your response

The mods affect the signal path thru the front inputs - caps, opamps, maybe a resistor or two.  Phantom power plays no role on or off.  I believe the rears are stock signal path.
The real question is...why the attenuator?  By using an attenuator up front you're forcing the pre to use gain to 'recover' the lost signal.  There's no way a microphone is overloading the UA-5 inputs...

Since you're inputting an unbalanced signal, feel free to use the 1/4" connectors if it's easier than wiring up XLRs.

[pfife]

Does anyone know if you have to have the phantom power running in order to get the effects of the W-Mod in a W-Mod UA-5?

IOW, can you run the following, and still get the w-mod effect:

mics -> bb -> attenuator -> 1/8" to xlr adaptor -> Wmod UA-5

Thanks for your response

The mods affect the signal path thru the front inputs - caps, opamps, maybe a resistor or two.  Phantom power plays no role on or off.  I believe the rears are stock signal path.
The real question is...why the attenuator?  By using an attenuator up front you're forcing the pre to use gain to 'recover' the lost signal.  There's no way a microphone is overloading the UA-5 inputs...

Since you're inputting an unbalanced signal, feel free to use the 1/4" connectors if it's easier than wiring up XLRs.

The problem is that my SP mics terminate in a 1/8" stereo miniplug, so I can't run phantom power to them.  Thus, I need the battery box to power the mics, even when using the UA-5.  This is where the over-powering comes in...

I get the same problem when I go with my mics->battery box-> AD-20:  turning the gain all the way down on the AD-20, it peaks constantly on the JB3.  I put the attenuator in the chain after the bb, and it works fine.

Maybe I am doing something wrong?!

Thanks for the responses!

[Chanher]

the mod affects the adc as well as the dac stage.  so if you're using the dig out then you are reaping benefits...

that doesn't make sense.... care to enlighten?

I thought Doug confirmed he replaces the A/D and D/A converter chips (or something or something to that extent), can anyone back me up? but I did find this link:

http://www.oade.com/Tapers_Section/Forum/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=100&topic_id=1211&mesg_id=1215&page=7

[mirth]

Doug doesn't touch the DAC, but the link you provided proves the rca ins do benefit slightly from the mods:

The RCA inputs do benefit from the MOD, but there is still one stock Op Amp in circuit with the RCA path, still the most critical ones have been replaced. It should be easy to hear , still the best way to know !
peace...Doug

[olyrc]

My understanding of the effects of the warm mod and presence mod are quite different. 

I thought that for these, doug only modified the analog circuitry on the microphone inputs  and did not modify the analog circuitry on the line inputs or the outputs.  Thus, if the signal is fed via mic in (with or without phantom), the benefits of the warm or presence mod are realized.  OTOH, if the signal is fed via the line inputs (RCAs on back), no warm or presence mod benefits will be realized.

Finally, to muddy the waters, it's my understanding that the mods performed by doug for the Transparent mod (tmod) DO enhance the line in (rcas on rear), unlike the pmod or wmod.

I actually just had my p-mod converted to a t-mod and got the clear scoop from Doug.

None of the standard mods (p, w, or t) do a whole lot to the RCAs (other than what's already been noted in this thread).  There is, however, now a plus (+) mod that adds an upgrade to the RCA inputs, plus improvements to the phantom power supply and the DC power for the analog systems.  The plus mod can be applied to the w-mod, p-mod or t-mod units.

And actually, this info is now on their UA-5 page:

http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/Digital_Converters/Edirol_UA5.html#mods

Cheers.

[dklein]

I get the same problem when I go with my mics->battery box-> AD-20:  turning the gain all the way down on the AD-20, it peaks constantly on the JB3.  I put the attenuator in the chain after the bb, and it works fine.

Gotcha - the reason you need the attenuator with the AD-20 is because even at the lowest setting, it provides 17 or 20 dB of gain (can't remember which).  It seems this is too much for your mics and recording situations.  You won't have the same problem with the UA-5 analog inputs which you can dial down.

Also - ignore that earlier comment I made about using the 1/4" inputs for convenience - the link to the Oade mod page clearly states that he disables the 1/4" inputs so you'll need to continue using XLR adapters.

[pfife]

I get the same problem when I go with my mics->battery box-> AD-20:  turning the gain all the way down on the AD-20, it peaks constantly on the JB3.  I put the attenuator in the chain after the bb, and it works fine.

Gotcha - the reason you need the attenuator with the AD-20 is because even at the lowest setting, it provides 17 or 20 dB of gain (can't remember which).  It seems this is too much for your mics and recording situations.  You won't have the same problem with the UA-5 analog inputs which you can dial down.

Hmmm... I'll have to see whether the attenuator is needed with the UA-5.  I would love to get rid of it- the less cables, the better, but I am almost sure that I tried this setup:

SP mics -> SP battery box -> W-Mod UA-5

and got the same issue.  I have read the thing about the +17 to +20db gain from the AD-20, but I didn't know if the UA-5 had the same gain issue...

I wish I could just mod these crappy mics that I have to accept phantom power, but I have emailed SP about it a couple times, and asked around here a bit, and haven't gotten anywhere... and I am too big of a wuss to cut things apart if I don't know that it can be done for sure!

Thanks again for your response- I always dig reading your responses, cause they are very detailed and knowledgable about the same gear that I have (AD-20, UA-5, NJB3)!

+t

[dklein]

thanks man.  +t 
I even have a Rode NT-4 too!  Just don't know what to do with it - I didn't love it for p.a. taping but it sounds good and is a damn cool mic.  So, should I tell you what you'll be buying next? 

[pfife]

thanks man.  +t 
I even have a Rode NT-4 too!  Just don't know what to do with it - I didn't love it for p.a. taping but it sounds good and is a damn cool mic.  So, should I tell you what you'll be buying next? 

Let's hear it- I am in the market... you gotta know!

(You could easily find out by looking in the yard sale...!!!  )


peace

[Karl]

I get the same problem when I go with my mics->battery box-> AD-20:  turning the gain all the way down on the AD-20, it peaks constantly on the JB3.  I put the attenuator in the chain after the bb, and it works fine.

Gotcha - the reason you need the attenuator with the AD-20 is because even at the lowest setting, it provides 17 or 20 dB of gain (can't remember which).  It seems this is too much for your mics and recording situations.  You won't have the same problem with the UA-5 analog inputs which you can dial down.

Hmmm... I'll have to see whether the attenuator is needed with the UA-5.  I would love to get rid of it- the less cables, the better, but I am almost sure that I tried this setup:

SP mics -> SP battery box -> W-Mod UA-5

and got the same issue.  I have read the thing about the +17 to +20db gain from the AD-20, but I didn't know if the UA-5 had the same gain issue...

I wish I could just mod these crappy mics that I have to accept phantom power, but I have emailed SP about it a couple times, and asked around here a bit, and haven't gotten anywhere... and I am too big of a wuss to cut things apart if I don't know that it can be done for sure!

Thanks again for your response- I always dig reading your responses, cause they are very detailed and knowledgable about the same gear that I have (AD-20, UA-5, NJB3)!

+t

Which SP mics are you using?  Most of their mics can be modded to accept Phantom.  Don't be scared, do it!  The SPL handling goes up, sound quality goes up.  Look for the thread (in the archives I think) about the "unmod".

[pfife]

I get the same problem when I go with my mics->battery box-> AD-20:  turning the gain all the way down on the AD-20, it peaks constantly on the JB3.  I put the attenuator in the chain after the bb, and it works fine.

Gotcha - the reason you need the attenuator with the AD-20 is because even at the lowest setting, it provides 17 or 20 dB of gain (can't remember which).  It seems this is too much for your mics and recording situations.  You won't have the same problem with the UA-5 analog inputs which you can dial down.

Hmmm... I'll have to see whether the attenuator is needed with the UA-5.  I would love to get rid of it- the less cables, the better, but I am almost sure that I tried this setup:

SP mics -> SP battery box -> W-Mod UA-5

and got the same issue.  I have read the thing about the +17 to +20db gain from the AD-20, but I didn't know if the UA-5 had the same gain issue...

I wish I could just mod these crappy mics that I have to accept phantom power, but I have emailed SP about it a couple times, and asked around here a bit, and haven't gotten anywhere... and I am too big of a wuss to cut things apart if I don't know that it can be done for sure!

Thanks again for your response- I always dig reading your responses, cause they are very detailed and knowledgable about the same gear that I have (AD-20, UA-5, NJB3)!

+t

Which SP mics are you using?  Most of their mics can be modded to accept Phantom.  Don't be scared, do it!  The SPL handling goes up, sound quality goes up.  Look for the thread (in the archives I think) about the "unmod".

They are a brand of "innovative specialist" mics they sell on their site- I have looked all around, and didn't find anything about unmodding these kind, and I sent an email to sp to find out if I could, and no response (of course...)

I was a total noob when I bought them.

Edit:  actually the model is in my sig:  ISI-HMAB-1

[Karl]

Sorry, can't help with those.