Topic: PS Audio Quintet

[Brian Skalinder]

I mean they actually condition the power coming in preventing spikes and brown outs and sagging. They dont claim to filter out things to increase your soundstage.

You make mics & preamps, Chris.  Could power spikes, brownouts, and sagging potentially impact the mics' / preamp's performance?  And could conditioning the power remove those issues and potentially stabilize / improve the mics' / preamp's performance?

[nickgregory]

I have done an objective test...listening to my respective playback prior to adding a monster power conditioner in one and an audio magic in the other.  And in both cases, the soundstage was widened, the background went to complete silence and the clarity of the frequencies, specifically in the upper range was increased.

[Church-Audio]

I mean they actually condition the power coming in preventing spikes and brown outs and sagging. They dont claim to filter out things to increase your soundstage.

You make mics & preamps, Chris.  Could power spikes, brownouts, and sagging potentially impact the mics' / preamp's performance?  And could conditioning the power remove those issues and potentially stabilize / improve the mics' / preamp's performance?

No.

Because my preamps work on batteries 

But seriously I would love to hear some samples of the before and after so I too could hear difference.

I think its great to make cool products its even cooler when you can prove they actually do something to improve the sound of your gear. I wonder if we could do a simple test? Can someone record a cd player with its digital output into a digital recording device and upload before and after samples so we can put it to a vote? I think that would be very interesting who knows what the results would be.

Chris

[Church-Audio]

I have done an objective test...listening to my respective playback prior to adding a monster power conditioner in one and an audio magic in the other.  And in both cases, the soundstage was widened, the background went to complete silence and the clarity of the frequencies, specifically in the upper range was increased.

So when you did the test did you have an A/B switch to toggle back and forth? or did you have to hook everything up again? after doing that how can you be sure of what you heard? I am a sound engineer I would have a very hard time telling the difference after so much time had elapsed.

[nickgregory]

I had been listening to my system long enough that I knew how certain discs sounded, and as a result could pick out the improvement.  Is it subtle?  Absolutely….you have to know the disc that you are listening to and how it sounds on that system intimately in order to be able to hear a difference when it comes to the soundstage and the clarity.

The simpler test is to plug the system into the wall and turn the volume up…I heard faint static, or noise in the background.  Upon hooking up the Audio Magic or the Monster unit, the “noise” went away….complete silence by my ears…a black background as it is commonly referred to as.

With regards to your comment on being a sound engineer and you couldn’t hear a difference…there are more than a few experts in the field who can…

From stereophile on PS Audio units:

“Listening to the system with AC coming directly from the wall socket rather than the P300, I was struck by how comparatively lifeless and flat the music sounded. It was almost as if someone had turned down the volume while I wasn't looking”

http://stereophile.com/powerlineaccessories/460/

From Soundstage on Audio Magic units:

“With the Audio Magic Stealth, "bass had new authority" -- " a meaty vividness and three-dimensionality about it that was amazing"; there was "also now a sense of expansive space that was completely new"

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/audiomagic_stealth.htm

But hey, if you don’t hear the difference, then don’t spend the money…given the fact you’re a sound engineer I am sure that your opinion based on no practical experience is more sound than mine (and others quoted above) who actually have given their ears a chance to make the distinction.

[Church-Audio]

I had been listening to my system long enough that I knew how certain discs sounded, and as a result could pick out the improvement.  Is it subtle?  Absolutely….you have to know the disc that you are listening to and how it sounds on that system intimately in order to be able to hear a difference when it comes to the soundstage and the clarity.

The simpler test is to plug the system into the wall and turn the volume up…I heard faint static, or noise in the background.  Upon hooking up the Audio Magic or the Monster unit, the “noise” went away….complete silence by my ears…a black background as it is commonly referred to as.

With regards to your comment on being a sound engineer and you couldn’t hear a difference…there are more than a few experts in the field who can…

From stereophile on PS Audio units:

“Listening to the system with AC coming directly from the wall socket rather than the P300, I was struck by how comparatively lifeless and flat the music sounded. It was almost as if someone had turned down the volume while I wasn't looking”

http://stereophile.com/powerlineaccessories/460/

From Soundstage on Audio Magic units:

“With the Audio Magic Stealth, "bass had new authority" -- " a meaty vividness and three-dimensionality about it that was amazing"; there was "also now a sense of expansive space that was completely new"

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/audiomagic_stealth.htm

But hey, if you don’t hear the difference, then don’t spend the money…given the fact you’re a sound engineer I am sure that your opinion based on no practical experience is more sound than mine (and others quoted above) who actually have given their ears a chance to make the distinction.

Hey that's great news. All these people cant be wrong.. Even though some of them are actually selling advertising space to the same company they are reviewing  I would love to hear a recording made with this power bar so we can all here the difference it makes. Could you do one with or without? for us all to hear?

Hey I am a skeptic dont get me wrong but, I would love to know if there actually is a real difference if there is great. If not then hey that's too bad. Why dont we do the test I proposed?

Ps.. its not so much that I could not hear the difference if there are differences I will hear them. Its more of the fact that once you allow a some time to elapse how can you be 100% sure of what your hearing. When ever a speaker company does A/B tests they use a A/B box so that you can switch back and forth so you can hear the difference. That can not be done with this product so it makes it very hard to know for 100% sure. I think under these circumstances I would prefer a recording test to see if we can hear the differences I can then A/B them my self and listen under a controlled environment.

Chris

[Tim]

Thanks

Sorry, you can't repeat a karma action without waiting 12 hours.

[Brian Skalinder]

No.

Because my preamps work on batteries 

But seriously I would love to hear some samples of the before and after so I too could hear difference.

Seriously...if your mics & preamps ran on AC (as many preamps do), could their performance suffer from power spikes, brownouts, and sagging?

[nickgregory]

Hey that's great news. All these people cant be wrong.. Even though some of them are actually selling advertising space to the same company they are reviewing  I would love to hear a recording made with this power bar so we can all here the difference it makes. Could you do one with or without? for us all to hear?

Hey I am a skeptic dont get me wrong but, I would love to know if there actually is a real difference if there is great. If not then hey that's too bad. Why dont we do the test I proposed?

Chris

I was merely calling out people who had published and heard the same thing I did.  Regardless, there are other folks on this site that have heard the same thing I have...when introducing power conditioning to their plaback...

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=57108.0

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=81433.0

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,71330.0.html

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,35697.0.html

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,14234.0.html

and no one here is trying to sell anything...

bottom line, I believe my ears, and others who have actually made the effort to listen for themselves, over a theory any day of the week.

As for taping it and making it available to you...sorry, not interested...

[scervin]

Could I get measurements taken with the GM achen head which was developed to measure sound quality (sones)....probably not.  I don't claim to be an expert in power, I'm more of an expert when it comes to thin wall automotive structures.  In my line of work (structural analysis) when I see a sine wave filled with little gremlins and not smooth (maybe squared off) I have noise in the model that can either be filtered out (SAE 60Hz filter) or the model needs a little tweak.  I tend to tweak using different element formulations, mesh size at critical ares, etc. first and then clean it up with a filter.  I’ve taken a similar approach to the HT, first putting everything on its own circuit then filtering where needed.  Just happens that the Quintet solved a problem (required more outlets) and improved the rest of the system.  I’ve seen AC waveforms before and after some power conditioners and they work (dimmers and fridges on the line).  Power regenerators (Exactpower, PS Audio, APS) worked best in providing a pure waveform

Funny you mention Tripp Lite as that is what this "magic strip" replaced (6 outlet version).  I needed it again at work.  Heard claims the PS Audio stuff worked well.  The Quintet sounds better to ME and if I could measure this I would, but would measurements really help when it comes to something as subjective as good sound? 

I’m not going to debate it anymore either.  At our local meets it comes up once a year and we have to do the DBT all over again.  Some hear a difference and some don’t (until we use the battery powered system).  “Magic” power products always spark debate and I’m sorry I don’t agree with Chris.  I’m not telling all to spend $2K on the best power system available, but if someone is looking I would say a used “power conditioner” from Agon MIGHT make their system sound better to THEIR ears.

I will be connecting the antenna to it this weekend to see if it helps a couple channels I have problems with.

[Church-Audio]

No.

Because my preamps work on batteries 

But seriously I would love to hear some samples of the before and after so I too could hear difference.

Seriously...if your mics & preamps ran on AC (as many preamps do), could their performance suffer from power spikes, brownouts, and sagging?

Yes for sure 100% yes to your question. But I dont think they have an autotransformer in side that little power bar to stabilize the voltage its too small So they are just filtering the power.. My whole problem with that is filtering the AC does not do much when its already going to be filtered inside the first stage of the power supply inside your stereo gear, Ether by the switching power supply that generates noise that no power bar can attenuate *because its after the fact * or the bandwidth limiting power transformer inside gear that does not have a switching power supply *after the power bar * so what are we really trying to clear up?

Chris

[Church-Audio]

Hey that's great news. All these people cant be wrong.. Even though some of them are actually selling advertising space to the same company they are reviewing  I would love to hear a recording made with this power bar so we can all here the difference it makes. Could you do one with or without? for us all to hear?

Hey I am a skeptic dont get me wrong but, I would love to know if there actually is a real difference if there is great. If not then hey that's too bad. Why dont we do the test I proposed?

Chris

I was merely calling out people who had published and heard the same thing I did.  Regardless, there are other folks on this site that have heard the same thing I have...when introducing power conditioning to their plaback...

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=57108.0

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=81433.0

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,71330.0.html

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,35697.0.html

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,14234.0.html

and no one here is trying to sell anything...

bottom line, I believe my ears, and others who have actually made the effort to listen for themselves, over a theory any day of the week.

As for taping it and making it available to you...sorry, not interested...

I am not accusing anyone of trying to sell something. I was just stating an opinion. That's what this board is all about right?  I would still like to hear a recording made with this device.

[nickgregory]

I am not accusing anyone of trying to sell something. I was just stating an opinion. That's what this board is all about right?  I would still like to hear a recording made with this device.

was just responding to:

Hey that's great news. All these people cant be wrong.. Even though some of them are actually selling advertising space to the same company they are reviewing 

as for stating an opinion, absolutely...I am stating my opinion based on actual experience, and what I hear.  I dont have unlimited $$$s and wouldnt invest in power conditioning if I didnt hear a difference...regardless of what some theory states

[Church-Audio]

Could I get measurements taken with the GM achen head which was developed to measure sound quality (sones)....probably not.  I don't claim to be an expert in power, I'm more of an expert when it comes to thin wall automotive structures.  In my line of work (structural analysis) when I see a sine wave filled with little gremlins and not smooth (maybe squared off) I have noise in the model that can either be filtered out (SAE 60Hz filter) or the model needs a little tweak.  I tend to tweak using different element formulations, mesh size at critical ares, etc. first and then clean it up with a filter.  I’ve taken a similar approach to the HT, first putting everything on its own circuit then filtering where needed.  Just happens that the Quintet solved a problem (required more outlets) and improved the rest of the system.  I’ve seen AC waveforms before and after some power conditioners and they work (dimmers and fridges on the line).  Power regenerators (Exactpower, PS Audio, APS) worked best in providing a pure waveform

Funny you mention Tripp Lite as that is what this "magic strip" replaced (6 outlet version).  I needed it again at work.  Heard claims the PS Audio stuff worked well.  The Quintet sounds better to ME and if I could measure this I would, but would measurements really help when it comes to something as subjective as good sound? 

I’m not going to debate it anymore either.  At our local meets it comes up once a year and we have to do the DBT all over again.  Some hear a difference and some don’t (until we use the battery powered system).  “Magic” power products always spark debate and I’m sorry I don’t agree with Chris.  I’m not telling all to spend $2K on the best power system available, but if someone is looking I would say a used “power conditioner” from Agon MIGHT make their system sound better to THEIR ears.

I will be connecting the antenna to it this weekend to see if it helps a couple channels I have problems with.

 My argument was not that power conditioners did not work.. They clearly do but what are the real advantages when it comes to the subjective quality of sound.

PS.. I never said I wanted to analyze the sound lol I wanted to listen to a recording made with this equipment and without. Surly if it makes that much of a difference then it will be quite obvious in the recording as to what one contains the power bar and what signal does not.... I dont think everything should be analyzed as some have stated I mostly use my ears with my company. I would still like to hear a sample. I am not trying to get people angry I just wanted to state an opinion I think we can do that without having to get personal or be unprofessional how can we learn about new technology if we cant talk about it?



Chris

[Church-Audio]

I am not accusing anyone of trying to sell something. I was just stating an opinion. That's what this board is all about right?  I would still like to hear a recording made with this device.

was just responding to:

Hey that's great news. All these people cant be wrong.. Even though some of them are actually selling advertising space to the same company they are reviewing 

as for stating an opinion, absolutely...I am stating my opinion based on actual experience, and what I hear.  I dont have unlimited $$$s and wouldnt invest in power conditioning if I didnt hear a difference...regardless of what some theory states

I am sorry when I made that statement I was referring to the companies you mentioned that did some of the reviews you linked to. I have no doubt you heard something why else would you spend $500. My problem is its very hard to switch a power bar out like that and really be able to be objective about the differences. With out the ability to do a A/B switch test. I am not saying you do not have the skills.. I dont know you at all. I am saying is I think it would be very difficult. I by no means want to imply that your not right. I dont know. I am saying some of the Theory om the website I dont 100% agree with but who am I? Is there a difference? I dont know. Lets set that all aside and just do a simple recording test. I would be very interested in hearing the files. I understand if you dont want to do it. Its very time consuming and to be honest why would you want to do a test for me, someone you dont even know. I would do it for the other people out there that maybe could use a good product if this is it why not?

Chris