Topic: recording my friend's band (with a sample now)

[gkatz]

SAMPLE RECORDING:  http://rapidshare.com/files/418112334/cowgirl.mp3



hello everyone,

so here's the deal. my college buddy formed a band a little while ago, and he is gonna have a show/party at his house pretty soon. keep in mind this is a pretty low key "band" at this point, they just learned a decent list of covers, some dylan, neil young, GD, to name a few, and they play punk too (my friend who plays guitar is really into that scene). He said they might want to use this recording as some kind of demo, so i'm looking to get a good representation.
The gear they have includes a fender deluxe reverb (40Watt) and a marshall half stack, and couple run of the mill vocal mics. Also a pretty big pearl drum set and possibly someone with a bass amp.  The room where the show will be in is a living room, probably 15' x 35' or so, with a two story high peaked ceiling. Now i figure there would be better sound in a smaller room (am i correct in thinking this? as far as height concerns) but this room is really the only place where the "party" will be. so expect significant "crowd noise." Now as far as my gear goes, I have a sony minidisc MZ-N707, and no mics, but soon I will be getting the funds to probably buy some church gear or maybe sound pros gear if I dont want to spend quite that much money.
So now for the real question: would cards or omnis suit me better for recording in a room like this? I will probably want to record "stage lip" with some small stands, because it would be easier to protect the mics from the roughtyness. I may want to use these mics in small clubs, when I get the chance to see shows. I would think cards are better for attenuating crowd noise, so I had in mind the CA-14s or 11s, or possibly the SP-CMC-19s.
I hope this is enough background info to get some advice.

Thanks, GKatz

[gkatz]

thankyou for the info mshilarious, some good tips there. Now as far as placement for the cards goes, is it better to have them split, or say in DIN or NOS? I see sometimes people will do "spaced omni's" near the stage lip, to enhance the stereo image. and as far as hanging the mics goes, I probably cant do that, because of the high ceiling. how high up should the mics be?

Thanks

[junkyardt]

but soon I will be getting the funds to probably buy some church gear or maybe sound pros gear if I dont want to spend quite that much money.

you say this as if Church gear costs MORE than Sound Pros gear, i thought it was the other way around.

[admkrk]

hang a rug on the back wall and run high in front of that. better yet hang rugs on all the walls.

also expect a muddy recording no matter what you do with the drums over powering everything else.

[gkatz]

thanks everyone, and in regard to church gear costing cheaper than SP gear, it is partially true, the CA-1 preorder is a pretty nice deal, but there are a few other SP mics that are cheaper than church.

[yltfan]

Any chance you can borrow some gear from other tapers, or convince the band to rent a multitracker (I think it's about $75 to rent an Alesis here)? If they are serious about using the tape for anything, they should help make it sound decent, and the chances of that seem fairly slim with what you're working with.

[rhinowing]

but soon I will be getting the funds to probably buy some church gear or maybe sound pros gear if I dont want to spend quite that much money.

you say this as if Church gear costs MORE than Sound Pros gear, i thought it was the other way around.

depends on what you buy from sound pros.

[dgale]

Until they're serious enough about making a demo recording to play in a more controlled environment and get/rent a PA, they should just have fun at the party and not have much in the way of expectations for recording quality, regardless of what gear you borrow or buy.  Not that you shouldn't go ahead and record them but under all the circumstances you listed, they are not going to produce any sort of reasonable recording for a demo.  If they really want to pull off a listenable recording they can use (for instance) for passing around to clubs etc. to try and get a booking, they really need to either go with a multitrack recording or at least PA and console with a well mixed recording feed.

[gkatz]

they are not going to produce any sort of reasonable recording for a demo.

yea I guess mine, and my friend's hopes were a little high. I just want something that is at least somewhat listenable. I do have a 4 track mixer that I could run the vocals through, so that part of the recording sounds decent at least. But I figure if I want to multi track, I should go all out, mic the drumset, the guitar amps, etc, rather than trying to post mix crisp, clean vocals with a muddy AUD recording

[fmaderjr]

thanks everyone, and in regard to church gear costing cheaper than SP gear, it is partially true, the CA-1 preorder is a pretty nice deal, but there are a few other SP mics that are cheaper than church.

SP's have $49 or $59 mics that you can sometimes get 2 for the price of 1. They sound surprisingly good when recording stuff that isn't too loud, but they won't stand nearly as high a sound pressure level as Church gear. SP's gear that will stand as high a sound pressure level as Church gear and which sound about as good cost a lot more. 

[gkatz]

thanks everyone, and in regard to church gear costing cheaper than SP gear, it is partially true, the CA-1 preorder is a pretty nice deal, but there are a few other SP mics that are cheaper than church.

SP's have $49 or $59 mics that you can sometimes get 2 for the price of 1. They sound surprisingly good when recording stuff that isn't too loud, but they won't stand nearly as high a sound pressure level as Church gear. SP's gear that will stand as high a sound pressure level as Church gear and which sound about as good cost a lot more.

yes thanks for clearing that up, I actually see the facebook deal now is for $49 you can get 2 sets of the BMC-1's. i'm guessing if I were to get a battery box too, that would increase the max SPL the mics could handle.

[runonce]

thanks everyone, and in regard to church gear costing cheaper than SP gear, it is partially true, the CA-1 preorder is a pretty nice deal, but there are a few other SP mics that are cheaper than church.

SP's have $49 or $59 mics that you can sometimes get 2 for the price of 1. They sound surprisingly good when recording stuff that isn't too loud, but they won't stand nearly as high a sound pressure level as Church gear. SP's gear that will stand as high a sound pressure level as Church gear and which sound about as good cost a lot more.

yes thanks for clearing that up, I actually see the facebook deal now is for $49 you can get 2 sets of the BMC-1's. i'm guessing if I were to get a battery box too, that would increase the max SPL the mics could handle.

I gotta ask...do you really need such tiny mics? Unless you see yourself becoming a stealther...not sure thats the way to go...

Does the band have any kind of PA system?

I'd take the board feed into your mixer and add two mics on stage...even run of the mill vocal mics will be fine at that distance...

Heres a show from NYE at my friends living room...stage mics + board...(room is about 15X20)

http://www.archive.org/details/mightychondria2009-12-31

There is nothing in the board but acoustic guitar, vocals, and keyboards....the rest is coming off the stage...

99 dollar Chinese mics...

[fmaderjr]

I actually see the facebook deal now is for $49 you can get 2 sets of the BMC-1's. i'm guessing if I were to get a battery box too, that would increase the max SPL the mics could handle.

Yes they will go to 120 DB with a battery box, but if the band is very loud, that might not be good enough. Without a box, they definitely won't cut it. CA-14's won't distort no matter how loud, but will always require a battery box for most recorders. The other problem with the BCM-1's is that they are omnis, which won't tend to sound good if the room has bad acoustics. You can get the CA-14's as cardioids if you want to. Very cheap cardioids are generally not going to sound good. It is easier to make a decent cheap omni that a cheap cardioid. 

[rhinowing]

I own BMC-2s. Great mics, but I'd question the actual DB levels. For example, this show I taped was nowhere near 120 db, but still sounds crunchy: http://www.archive.org/details/rgc2010-02-18.spbmc2

[jethro bo deen]

Don't overthink the thing.       Just utilize your portable MD machine,   a camcorder or even perhaps an ancient tape deck with mic inputs to try and capture your live gig.       I've been recording for 35+ years and way back when,  we just plugged condenser mics into the open reel Akai,  or later in early '80's using Technics dbx equipped tape decks.       You'd be surprised if mic placement was good and levels were set properly , we mostly got good recordings.
MD is certainly good enough to get something useful.    I know I've owned one since the '90's.   I have several   and I still use my Sharp MD-MT821 from time to time.    You can build a cheap mic from two WM-55 Panasonic elements from DigiKey  or   MICROSOUND.INC (ebaystore) sells a pretty good StereoY-MIC Recording Concerts, Pansonic Uni's   for about $23.
Then just Equalize your MD recordings as needed.      Don't Wait Until You Get Top Quality Stuff Or Otherwise You'll Miss Too Many Quality Recordings.     Despite the snobbish attitudes that you need Top Notch Stuff, ----You can get some really good stuff with primitive equipment ,  provided you use it to the best of its recording capabilities.     Its also a good way to start   and learn,....

[jethro bo deen]

My point is don't necessarily seek ancient and old stuff...     But if you or someone you know has that laying around and its functional and free to use...Give it a go  and Record.       The old dbx equipped Technics cassette decks circa '81-'85 recorded pretty good with dbx switched on (gave much higher signal to noise ratio Around 92db / Dolby B was around 60 & DolbyC was maybe 70)   
Anyway using One-Point Stereo MICs (uni Elect Condenser)  like  Technics RP-3210E   or even Radio Shack Realistic 33-919a    gave decent results   although there were advantages using separate condenser mics for L & R inputs .       Today's  AT-822  or AT-8022 is similar in design but no doubt likely better.
The point is whether you are using MD,  or analog Cassette, or Reel or perhaps DAT,  or just scavenging the Stereo Audio Track from a HD or non HD camcorder,   IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE, IF THE AUDIO IS GOOD.          The First Step is to start capturing audio with whatever equipment you've got.     Experiment with microphone placement    and  models of mics.    NEVER USE DYNAMIC MICS    Only use Condenser Mics    as dynamics won't give you the clarity/detail and preciseness.         
Get Started First.    Then once you learn about setting levels properly, and how mic placement and type of mic (Omni or Uni-Card) have a huge impact,  then move on and Spend Whatever You Like  Becoming An Expert Hobbyist/Quasi-recording engineer.     Nothing is wrong with MD as a start if you've already got one.   

[fmaderjr]

Nothing is wrong with MD as a start if you've already got one.   

The mics are the most important thing in the chain. With good mics, standard MD can sound great.

Can be a pain in the ass to use though. Disc change after 81 minutes, no easy way to upload to computer, no way to change record levels without putting machine in pause with most of the old Sony MD's, etc.

[runonce]

Don't overthink the thing.       Just utilize your portable MD machine,   a camcorder or even perhaps an ancient tape deck with mic inputs to try and capture your live gig.       I've been recording for 35+ years and way back when,  we just plugged condenser mics into the open reel Akai,  or later in early '80's using Technics dbx equipped tape decks.       You'd be surprised if mic placement was good and levels were set properly , we mostly got good recordings.
MD is certainly good enough to get something useful.    I know I've owned one since the '90's.   I have several   and I still use my Sharp MD-MT821 from time to time.    You can build a cheap mic from two WM-55 Panasonic elements from DigiKey  or   MICROSOUND.INC (ebaystore) sells a pretty good StereoY-MIC Recording Concerts, Pansonic Uni's   for about $23.
Then just Equalize your MD recordings as needed.      Don't Wait Until You Get Top Quality Stuff Or Otherwise You'll Miss Too Many Quality Recordings.     Despite the snobbish attitudes that you need Top Notch Stuff, ----You can get some really good stuff with primitive equipment ,  provided you use it to the best of its recording capabilities.     Its also a good way to start   and learn,....

Yeah...I remember my first day on taperssection.com...

[runonce]

NEVER USE DYNAMIC MICS   

Nonsense...I'd trade any of my mics for a set of Senn421s...

And frankly - if you're just starting out...use what you have...

If all you can lay your hands on is some 57s...go for it.

[fmaderjr]

MD is certainly good enough to get something useful.    I know I've owned one since the '90's.   I have several   and I still use my Sharp MD-MT821 from time to time. 
 
Then just Equalize your MD recordings as needed.     ...

You can make something way better than "useful" with a Sharp Mini-Disc and good mics. No need to equalize just because you recorded with MD. The Sharps were way better than the pre Hi-MD Sony's and even provided more plug in power than most of today's flash recorders so you could usually get good results mic in without a battery box.

I often recorded at HI-SP with my Hi MD to avoid a disc change and I'd bet almost nobody could tell tell difference between that & PCM mode.

[gkatz]

ok yea I am going to buy a BB, maybe a CA-UBB or one of the SP's. Maybe I should look/post in the yardsale.

I gotta ask...do you really need such tiny mics? Unless you see yourself becoming a stealther...not sure thats the way to go...

I actually do see myself stealthing in the future. I think with the MD and a BB that would be fine.

thanks everyone for the input

[dgale]

Despite the snobbish attitudes that you need Top Notch Stuff,

Whoever said anything about needing top notch stuff?  The above input really had nothing to do with the specifics of the mics and recorder he should use - the point was that no matter what two-track mic recording you make, a band with a drum kit, half-Marshall stack etc. playing rock and punk in a living room at a party is not likely to yield a recording that will be suitable for a demo.  It doesn't mean he shouldn't go for it and make a tape and see what happens, but don't get the expectations up for anything approaching demo quality.  It has much more to do with the gear they are playing in the room and environment they are playing then the gear used to record.

As for the snobbish attitudes part, I've been a member here for over 7 years and don't really recall people throwing snobbish attitudes around toward folks with lesser gear then they...but how would someone who just made their first two posts today have any idea what occurs around here?  Perhaps you should get to know the place a bit before you coming swinging with the tude.

[gkatz]

It doesn't mean he shouldn't go for it and make a tape and see what happens, but don't get the expectations up for anything approaching demo quality.

yea my hopes are not that high right now, this is really my first venture into recording a band so I am just hoping for something that is listenable.

so the plan is that fmaderjr is gonna loan me some SP-BCM-2's, and like i said before I am getting a battery box. The MD is in the mail. I have a 6 foot stand and I plan on making a split omni bar from a meterstick and threaded adaptors I have. ill give that a run a little back from stage lip.

[dgale]

You should definitely be able to make something listenable and have fun doing it (which is the important part).  Have fun and don't be afraid to experiment with different approaches as you record subsequent shows - it's the best way to learn what works and what doesn't under different circumstances.  I've made some real clunker recordings over the years but also some gems...either way I'm always glad to experiment around and not settle for status quo.

[jethro bo deen]

My comment related to "snobbish attitude" was not directed towards anyone or particularly to this specific forum.    My post was prompted by what I've seen from my young (under 40 years old) musician friends,  who constantly claim that they would like to get a decent recording of their own group, but don't really try because they feel they don't have decent enough equipment .     What they fail to realize  is that even the equipment that they posess is more than capable, provided they know how to use it properly.
We got acceptable recordings with tape decks in the 1970's.      Minidisc is capable of at least that .     The abundance of 24 bit digital recorders in the less than $250 price range is amazing, even if their built in mics aren't great.    No argument that direct digital uploads for the modern digital recorders and even old hi-MD    are  much simpler and more advanced.      Regardless of whatever analog equip used,  tape or old MD (analog output only),  one can still get outstanding digital conversions using something as simple as Sony RCD-W500C  cd recording deck with SBM (superbitmapping) switched on.    Yeah its real time, slightly cumbersome as you gotta manually punch the disc track breaks  and you gotta use only Maxell gold colour MUSIC digital audio cdrs,  but you get Analog to Digital conversion that is second to none.            You can also use something like Easy Creator by Roxio/sonic or something similar but your soundcard's Analog To digital conversion isn't gonna equal RCD-500C with SBM switched on.
I'm old school in the transfer of tape and MD format,  choosing to run RCA outputs thru a 1982 era Numark EQ-2400  and  output #1 from Numark into  RCD-W500c     and outputs#2  to my 100w per channel SONY receiver and pair of 2-way KLH 8" woof +single tweet   to monitor/set eq of transfer.     Time consuming, sure  ,  but it works well,  and you get quality transfers.     Also if you transferring from old MD,  you've got the great editing/track moving capabilities of old MD.    I use the Sharp MD-Mt821 because they had better mic preamp than the Sony's did and Level Adjustment On Fly and Better LCD 'VU' display meters.      Transfer/Editing done on Sony Home MD deck simply because its easier, more user friendly, and its my opinion that the RCA outputs of the home deck give you cleaner connection than 1/8 stereo connection of the portables,  allowing cleaner sound from quality RCA cables.   
I've made "live albums" for some relatively respected bands with which I'm good friends  over the past decade using nothing but the Sharp MD-Mt821 and condenser mics.    Great quality stuff.     Electric Voodoo,     Ed Turner & Number 9,   and  The Suex Effect.     The Suex Effect's  Live On 8th Street, Augusta Ga  available as free download from their site was done entirely this way.     
The main thing is if you don't record the show, you've got zero chance at getting a good recording!   If you try you've probably got at least 40 to50% chance of a really good recording,  and the odds get better with more knowledge and better equipment and knowing how to use it.

[runonce]

My comment related to "snobbish attitude" was not directed towards anyone or particularly to this specific forum.    My post was prompted by what I've seen from my young (under 40 years old) musician friends,  who constantly claim that they would like to get a decent recording of their own group, but don't really try because they feel they don't have decent enough equipment .     What they fail to realize  is that even the equipment that they posess is more than capable, provided they know how to use it properly.
We got acceptable recordings with tape decks in the 1970's.      Minidisc is capable of at least that .     The abundance of 24 bit digital recorders in the less than $250 price range is amazing, even if their built in mics aren't great.    No argument that direct digital uploads for the modern digital recorders and even old hi-MD    are  much simpler and more advanced.      Regardless of whatever analog equip used,  tape or old MD (analog output only),  one can still get outstanding digital conversions using something as simple as Sony RCD-W500C  cd recording deck with SBM (superbitmapping) switched on.    Yeah its real time, slightly cumbersome as you gotta manually punch the disc track breaks  and you gotta use only Maxell gold colour MUSIC digital audio cdrs,  but you get Analog to Digital conversion that is second to none.            You can also use something like Easy Creator by Roxio/sonic or something similar but your soundcard's Analog To digital conversion isn't gonna equal RCD-500C with SBM switched on.
I'm old school in the transfer of tape and MD format,  choosing to run RCA outputs thru a 1982 era Numark EQ-2400  and  output #1 from Numark into  RCD-W500c     and outputs#2  to my 100w per channel SONY receiver and pair of 2-way KLH 8" woof +single tweet   to monitor/set eq of transfer.     Time consuming, sure  ,  but it works well,  and you get quality transfers.     Also if you transferring from old MD,  you've got the great editing/track moving capabilities of old MD.    I use the Sharp MD-Mt821 because they had better mic preamp than the Sony's did and Level Adjustment On Fly and Better LCD 'VU' display meters.      Transfer/Editing done on Sony Home MD deck simply because its easier, more user friendly, and its my opinion that the RCA outputs of the home deck give you cleaner connection than 1/8 stereo connection of the portables,  allowing cleaner sound from quality RCA cables.   
I've made "live albums" for some relatively respected bands with which I'm good friends  over the past decade using nothing but the Sharp MD-Mt821 and condenser mics.    Great quality stuff.     Electric Voodoo,     Ed Turner & Number 9,   and  The Suex Effect.     The Suex Effect's  Live On 8th Street, Augusta Ga  available as free download from their site was done entirely this way.     
The main thing is if you don't record the show, you've got zero chance at getting a good recording!   If you try you've probably got at least 40 to50% chance of a really good recording,  and the odds get better with more knowledge and better equipment and knowing how to use it.

Look out DSatz....looks like we have a new resident guru!

[itook2much]

As for the snobbish attitudes part, I've been a member here for over 7 years and don't really recall people throwing snobbish attitudes around toward folks with lesser gear then they...

Apparently I've read a number of posts you haven't, Dan.

I think it's eased up over the last coupla years, but there has been significant gear snobbery in the past.  Especially in regards to those who chose to use MD.

[12milluz]

As for the snobbish attitudes part, I've been a member here for over 7 years and don't really recall people throwing snobbish attitudes around toward folks with lesser gear then they...

Apparently I've read a number of posts you haven't, Dan.

I think it's eased up over the last coupla years, but there has been significant gear snobbery in the past.  Especially in regards to those who chose to use MD.

I've only been here a few months, but I have to say out of all the forums I've ever been a part of, this one has been the nicest and helpful to a newbie. I asked some dumb questions when I started out, but everyone who answered was kind and very helpful. I can't really speak to the "gear snobbery" but I must say this forum is a very nice one to be a part of at any experience level.

[admkrk]

As for the snobbish attitudes part, I've been a member here for over 7 years and don't really recall people throwing snobbish attitudes around toward folks with lesser gear then they...

Apparently I've read a number of posts you haven't, Dan.

I think it's eased up over the last coupla years, but there has been significant gear snobbery in the past.  Especially in regards to those who chose to use MD.

you mean as opposed to cassette? or lately dat? hell even hdd is getting laughed at these days. i'd call that more a lack of thick skin than snobbery. 

[itook2much]

Observation requires neither thick nor thin skin.

[gkatz]

ok updated situation. i now have some behringer c-2 card's, and denecke ps-2, along with the SP-BMC-2's and a chuch BB. I already tested the rig with my home stereo system, fairly loud. my friend's party is next thursday finally! and here is how I think I should set up. I can hang the soundpros from a rafter about 7' feet up, split 3 feet or so, and put the behringer mics in DIN at the "stage lip" about 10 feet from the band, 3 feet or so high. the band will have probably 3 amps, 2 guitars and a bass, and drum set. but to my surprise! the drummer is only using brushes. SO my fears of the room being overpowered are much less now. THe band members are going to let me tune there amps as well for optimal sound, and are not concerned about it being too quiet. I will run all the mics into a mixer I have and do line out from the mixer via a darktrain dual RCA --> 1/8 into the mic in on my laptop. using cubase to record. DOes this sound OK? I also have a berhinger usb device that has dual RCA inputs, which I could also use.

I hope this isnt too many questions haha, just looking for ways I can get a decent pull with these mics.

thanks,
gabe

[crazifyngers]

The mic in on the laptop will work but probably does not have the best S/N ratio.  that being said i would still use it and the usb audio input.  my reasoning is this, first time and trying to mix on the fly is gonna be tough.  if you get all the audio then yoiu can mix in post.  also recording is a learning experience.  I have only been taping for a year and a half and i have learned quite a bit.  even the bad recordings i have made have taught me the shit that i shouldn't do.  one piece of advice i have, to get vocals make sure you have mics that will pickup the PA.  that was a mistake i made in the beginning, instruments are often not miced in small venues but vocals usually go through the PA.  good luck and welcome.

[runonce]

ok updated situation. i now have some behringer c-2 card's, and denecke ps-2, along with the SP-BMC-2's and a chuch BB. I already tested the rig with my home stereo system, fairly loud. my friend's party is next thursday finally! and here is how I think I should set up. I can hang the soundpros from a rafter about 7' feet up, split 3 feet or so, and put the behringer mics in DIN at the "stage lip" about 10 feet from the band, 3 feet or so high. the band will have probably 3 amps, 2 guitars and a bass, and drum set. but to my surprise! the drummer is only using brushes. SO my fears of the room being overpowered are much less now. THe band members are going to let me tune there amps as well for optimal sound, and are not concerned about it being too quiet. I will run all the mics into a mixer I have and do line out from the mixer via a darktrain dual RCA --> 1/8 into the mic in on my laptop. using cubase to record. DOes this sound OK? I also have a berhinger usb device that has dual RCA inputs, which I could also use.

I hope this isnt too many questions haha, just looking for ways I can get a decent pull with these mics.

thanks,
gabe

It sounds wildly half-assed IMO...like you'll be nuciance to everyone - and the band. What does "tune their amps" mean?

Drop this whole 4 mic routine...

Just put the C2s on the stage, facing the either side of the drummer, not right at the drum kit, but not right at the guitar. - and mix in your board feed.(probably just vocals?)

Even better, if there is enough room, put the mics behind the guitar players - You'll get a clearer backline, and less monitor interference (this is generally hard to achieve on a lot of stages)

Dont be afraid to separate the mics - if you get too far left or right, just use the pan knobs to bring them back together.

...depending on your mixers inputs, you may need to run the -10db pads on the C2s

When you set up this close - there's no magic mix percentages here...just set your levels for each source as if you were recording them independently.

You can use headphones to check, just make sure you are getting enough vocals. I can pretty much do it right with just the meters - but not all mixers have good metering. So YMMV.

Use the USB interface for sure.

Not sure why everyone is so afraid to mix on the fly,...especially in what seems a pretty casual environment.

Go for it...

[gkatz]

ok updated situation. i now have some behringer c-2 card's, and denecke ps-2, along with the SP-BMC-2's and a chuch BB. I already tested the rig with my home stereo system, fairly loud. my friend's party is next thursday finally! and here is how I think I should set up. I can hang the soundpros from a rafter about 7' feet up, split 3 feet or so, and put the behringer mics in DIN at the "stage lip" about 10 feet from the band, 3 feet or so high. the band will have probably 3 amps, 2 guitars and a bass, and drum set. but to my surprise! the drummer is only using brushes. SO my fears of the room being overpowered are much less now. THe band members are going to let me tune there amps as well for optimal sound, and are not concerned about it being too quiet. I will run all the mics into a mixer I have and do line out from the mixer via a darktrain dual RCA --> 1/8 into the mic in on my laptop. using cubase to record. DOes this sound OK? I also have a berhinger usb device that has dual RCA inputs, which I could also use.

I hope this isnt too many questions haha, just looking for ways I can get a decent pull with these mics.

thanks,
gabe

It sounds wildly half-assed IMO...like you'll be nuciance to everyone - and the band. What does "tune their amps" mean?

Drop this whole 4 mic routine...

Just put the C2s on the stage, facing the either side of the drummer, not right at the drum kit, but not right at the guitar. - and mix in your board feed.(probably just vocals?)

Even better, if there is enough room, put the mics behind the guitar players - You'll get a clearer backline, and less monitor interference (this is generally hard to achieve on a lot of stages)

Dont be afraid to separate the mics - if you get too far left or right, just use the pan knobs to bring them back together.

...depending on your mixers inputs, you may need to run the -10db pads on the C2s

When you set up this close - there's no magic mix percentages here...just set your levels for each source as if you were recording them independently.

You can use headphones to check, just make sure you are getting enough vocals. I can pretty much do it right with just the meters - but not all mixers have good metering. So YMMV.

Use the USB interface for sure.

Not sure why everyone is so afraid to mix on the fly,...especially in what seems a pretty casual environment.

Go for it...

ok thanks for this help. as far as I know the band does NOT have a PA, just the backline, but my friend says he may be able to run the vocals through these largish bookshelf speakers. as far as "tuning" the amps, I meant only volume wise, sorry about that. I was wondering how the amps should be set up in relation to the drumset. THe room is maybe 15 feet wide and 30 or 40 feet long. They are going to set up at one end, with the drumset back near the wall. Would that cause some weird echoes if the drums were too close? keep in mind the drummer is using brushes only.
Should the two guitar amps be on either side of the drumset, spread out some? I figured I would put the bass amp as far from the drums as possible, and the vocal speakers on either side as well?

oh and how far apart/high should the mics be? would DIN not be a good choice?

thanks agian

[gkatz]

so this was my first real venture into "live" recording. the sound system turned out as follows: two guitar amps on either side of the drumset, the bass amp on one side and what happened was we ran the vocals (two dynamics) into an extra bass cabinet they had. so the vocals are what I think are most lacking in the recording.

I ended up clamping the C-2's onto the center vocal mic stand, about 2.5 feet off the ground maybe, in the XY configuration. I think XY helped eliminate most of the drunken chatter (not the loud yells hahah, as you will hear). I really had low expectations for this recording. this was a house party, as I mentioned earlier, alcohol was involved, so the band's performance was not quite up to "standards."  it was an awesome party though. the band had to since break up due the the members going to different colleges.

any comments/tips/ridicules on the samples would be greatly appreciated. I recorded "on the fly" with sound forge 9.

I guess I'll post an mp3 sample for now.

http://rapidshare.com/files/418112334/cowgirl.mp3

[gkatz]

and don't be afraid to reem this recording out. I wanna know how I can do better in the future with what I have.

[live2496]

It turned out pretty good all things considered. If you had a mixer and could have blended in a direct feed from the vocal mic you could have placed the vocals more up-front. (Or alternatively placed the mics closer to the "mic amp".) Other than that I don't know what you could have done to make a better recording with what you had to work with.

[gkatz]

yea so I was doing some editing in audacity trying to bring out the vocals. I did a high pass filter to try and make them sound better, and also experimented with the FFT filter. this made it a bit better. any other advice? does sound forge 9 have some better features?