Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: daspyknows on September 17, 2023, 10:36:44 AM
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Previous Thread https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=198715.0
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I picked up one of these while it was on sale, even though I already had an F6. I figured it gave me a little flexibility in case I wanted to run a rig FOB and one on stage.
I've only taken it out twice. My experience is that you can't trust rechargeable AA batteries on it - they barely made it through a gig just taking a line signal from a board, I can't imagine how fast they'd drain running phantom to power mics. The 2nd time, I had it running off a USB powerbank and running two mics - it was fine, but cumbersome. I need to test out the lithium ion (non-rechargeable) batteries everyone has been using.
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these (https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Foldable-Connector-Portable-Charger/dp/B0C6XK6DDL/ref=asc_df_B0C6XK6DDL/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=672171217374&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9216029730096304741&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9022874&hvtargid=pla-2196124392185&th=1) have been posted on the Facebook taper groups
I'm not sure myself about having the battery directly plugged into the unit
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I have gotten 8 hours recording at 32/44.1 with phantom using eveready lithium AA batteries.
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just marking thread, carry on
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I picked up one of these while it was on sale, even though I already had an F6. I figured it gave me a little flexibility in case I wanted to run a rig FOB and one on stage.
I've only taken it out twice. My experience is that you can't trust rechargeable AA batteries on it - they barely made it through a gig just taking a line signal from a board, I can't imagine how fast they'd drain running phantom to power mics. The 2nd time, I had it running off a USB powerbank and running two mics - it was fine, but cumbersome. I need to test out the lithium ion (non-rechargeable) batteries everyone has been using.
they will go a lot longer due to the higher voltage. around 7 hrs with phantom
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Yes, I've been very happy with the Energizer Lithiums, about 6.5 hours @48K powering a CCM 4 pair. I tried Duracell Optimums and got 3.2 hours, pretty good for the price; lithiums are insane lately.
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Took my F3 out for its maiden voyage last night. I just used the Anker USB-C battery that powers my MixPre 3 and 6. The MixPre 3 with 48V on usually uses about 2/10 bars on the meter. The F3 with 48V on didn’t even use a single bar after keeping it on the entire 3+ hour show. Using a small external battery and cable seems like a good fit if you don’t mind having that in your bag or on your person.
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Just to add this info on the right places.
I used the Zoom F3 now several times with the Schoeps MK41 > Nbob Actives > Baby Nbox > Zoom F3 setup. The Zoom has 4 input settings (Line, Line 48+, Mic, Mic 48+). The Baby Nbox is there to power the Schoeps mic. Therefore you should NOT use the Phantom Power on the Zoom, so that leaves the MIC (minus 48+) or LINE in (minus 48+) as options. I have used the MIC IN (minus 48+) at some big PA concerts at DFC and it works perfect. Good levels, nothing different from a normal microphone (mic in 48+) > Zoom F3 recording. I have not used the Line In and can not comment on sonic differences.
This is gonna be crossposted on the Schoeps Team forum aswell.
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Smokin' deal $244.99 today at Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Zoom-F3-Professional-Recording-Converters/dp/B09SVN6J35/ref=sr_1_2_pp?crid=1MVNHXX598MGQ&keywords=zoom%2Bf3&qid=1696949793&sprefix=zoom%2Bf3%2Caps%2C78&sr=8-2&th=1
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Most all Zoom recorders are on sale today
M2 MicTrak $140 -- $50 off
https://www.amazon.com/Zoom-M2-Normalization-Monitoring-Podcasters/dp/B0BN4GKHJL/ref=sr_1_14?crid=OF98571E45UZ&keywords=zoom%2Bmic%2Btrak&qid=1696960691&sprefix=zoom%2Bmic%2Btrak%2Caps%2C166&sr=8-14&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.f5122f16-c3e8-4386-bf32-63e904010ad0&th=1
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these (https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Foldable-Connector-Portable-Charger/dp/B0C6XK6DDL/ref=asc_df_B0C6XK6DDL/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=672171217374&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9216029730096304741&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9022874&hvtargid=pla-2196124392185&th=1) have been posted on the Facebook taper groups
I'm not sure myself about having the battery directly plugged into the unit
I don't like the form of the combination. Moreover, the combination's mass could flex and stress the USB-C port of the recorder if the combination was not simply sitting flat on a shelf.
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Been ducking with this thing for hours, nice little brick!
But I’m not sure I understand the magnification settings. What’s a good setting? I was confused and thought it had to be set at 32 but I know that’s not right, the living room recording was pretty low when normalized. Can someone give a down and dirty?
Tanks!
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We’ve confirmed that the magnification settings is POST adc and does NOT affect your end result. Think of it as an after-the-fact level fader. I’ve recorded my living room speaker blasting very loud at x1024 (the highest magnification setting) and while everything APPEARED to be clipping very badly, once you’ve transferred the file to software and reduced the gain, the recording is completely normal. It seems like magic and is hard to accept, but it’s true!
I like around x8 for loud rock, but sometimes go higher so that raw playback is at a nice consumer level playback volume. No more normalizing!
The last 3-4 pages of the 1st Zoom F3 thread covers the topic thoroughly if you want to read more about it. Love my F3!
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Thank you!
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So I don’t see any way to adjust the mic inputs for particular mikes? If you input clip you’re out of luck?
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Sorry, not sure exactly what you mean by mic input adjustments , but the F3 cannot clip.
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I mean, is there a pad needed/available.
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To the best of my knowledge, no pad would be needed because the F3 cannot clip
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I have been reading eman's posts in the old Zoom F3 thread where he took a Dremel and removed the steel cage around the F3, which dropped half the weight and a bunch of size.
It looks like you can remove the entire steel cage by unscrewing the 4 watchmaker's screws in the bottom side of the unit.
If so, then instead of Dremel-ing the legs in order to leave the metal faceplate (which is needed), can someone 3dprint a plastic faceplate for all of us to use?
If I am correct, this would mean you could just use the 4 screws to make the unit pocket-sized without any permanent damage.
Or if someone can confirm this is correct (eman?), then maybe I will sendcutsend some faceplates for us to all use.
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To the best of my knowledge, no pad would be needed because the F3 cannot clip
You can overload the input (+4 dBu for mic-in).
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Thanks -- I did not realize that.
https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/field-recorders/field-recorders/f3/
Inputs
MIC/LINE (MONO) Connectors: 2 XLR (2: HOT)
Input gain: Adjustment unnecessary (dual AD converter circuits used)
Input impedance: MIC: 3 kΩ or more
LINE: 3 kΩ or more
Maximum input level: MIC: +4 dBu
LINE: +24 dBu
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To the best of my knowledge, no pad would be needed because the F3 cannot clip
You can overload the input (+4 dBu for mic-in).
and cannot be adjusted, correct?
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i just got one
so any tips on starting to integrate it into my taping flow
i'm getting a cable made from nick for baby box and mk41v
i'm interested in that 3d printed plastic replacement for metal cage
thanks everyone ahead of time
any infor for mod and any tips on starting to use
- it seems a lil bit of challenge to sneak into certain venues?
Taz
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To the best of my knowledge, no pad would be needed because the F3 cannot clip
You can overload the input (+4 dBu for mic-in).
and cannot be adjusted, correct?
Yea the only adjustment you can make is choosing between mic (+4dB max) and line (+24dB max). You can definitely overload the analog input stage. I stack taped a metal band last weekend with no issues.
What I've been doing: If I'm using an external preamp or sbd, line setting. If it's an active power box/ batt box/ or mics straight in, use mic setting. Try to get the magnification close. Hit record and enjoy the show. Do this a few times and see how the results are.
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Thanks for the information. But I can't help but wonder, if you stack taped a metal show with no issues, what would it take to overload the analog input in a real life situation? Or were you using Line In for the stack taping?
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Thanks for the information. But I can't help but wonder, if you stack taped a metal show with no issues, what would it take to overload the analog input in a real life situation? Or were you using Line In for the stack taping?
I used the mic setting for the metal stack recording. I've actually recorded 2 metal shows now with my F3 and no problems.
Barring real-life tests, I can't answer what it would take to overload the analog input.
I don't think any of our (musical) applications would do it, as I've TRIED to read through practically every thread on ALL the 32fp products (especially Zoom) and I haven't read about anyone experiencing this in a concert setting (doesn't mean it hasn't happened though) but I can safely say it's not a widespread problem.
The best piece of advice I read regarding 32fp is you have to see it to believe it. Record your living room speakers at a QUIET volume, magnification x1, transfer the file and boost the gain. Then record your speakers at the highest possible volume, x1024 (should LOOK like clipping), transfer the file and reduce the gain. Listen critically to both files after you've adjusted the gain to a listenable level.
For my dumb ass, once I did these tests (multiple times mind you), it made reading through the threads much easier as I had my own experience to compare it to.
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To hit that +4 dBu, you would need either sensitive mics or a very loud source or, most likely, a combination of the two. The mics people here typically use are in the 10 - 15 mV/Pa range; with those, it would take a really loud signal (~ 133 dBSPL) to overload the F3 mic input. Some mics, though, are more sensitive (such as my DPA 2006s at 40 mV/Pa) and it gets more plausible. Put those things on stage, near the snare or bass drum, and it could definitely overload.
I believe the F3 has P48 on the line input? If so, you could just use that and your chances of overloading the input are tiny.
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I believe the F3 has P48 on the line input? If so, you could just use that and your chances of overloading the input are tiny.
It's a (surprising) option. Pg 33 of manual:
"Line (+48V) Use when connecting equipment with line level input that requires
phantom power"
https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/E_F3v2.pdf
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^ Thanks for checking! My guess is that, using that option (and if the multiple ADC set-up is well implemented), you will never have a problem unless you have REALLY sensitive mics or you're taping grenades going off at close range...
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To the best of my knowledge, no pad would be needed because the F3 cannot clip
You can overload the input (+4 dBu for mic-in).
and cannot be adjusted, correct?
In comparison to a traditional digital recorder, a multi-ADC design does not in itself increase the overload point of the recorder nor decrease its noise floor. Those thresholds are determined by the the analog input stage ahead of the ADC. What implementation of the dual ADC scheme does is increase the dynamic range of the ADC stage enough that it matches or slightly exceeds the dynamic range of the analog input stage, thereby avoiding the need to manually adjust input gain. It doesn't increase the dynamic range capability of the ADC by a massive amount and doesn't need to, it only needs to increase it enough to slightly exceed the limits of the analog input stage.
The open question I'm still seeking an answer for is why 32bit fp was also tacked onto that, because the dynamic range capability of 24 bits also exceeds the dynamic range of the recorder's analog input stage and could have been used in exactly the same way. I think its based in marketing. Manufacturers get to talk about +700 dB of dynamic range, being impossible to clip, all that. But those are the aspects of the file format itself and not the recorder feeding it. It totally ignores the real world constrictions of the necessary signal chain ahead of writing ones and zeros into the file format.
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It's a (surprising) option. Pg 33 of manual:
"Line (+48V) Use when connecting equipment with line level input that requires
phantom power"
Conversely, I was actually surprised Zoom did not setup the original F8 to work that way as its common among all other XLR input digital recorders I use and have used. The biggest issue I've had with the original F8 is that line-in is available only via 1/4" TRS (not XLR) and does not provide the option of phantom power. That was corrected on F8n and subsequent F-series recorders which allow use of either input at either sensitivity along and provide switchable phantom power in both mic and line input modes.
what would it take to overload the analog input in a real life situation?
Exceeding +4dBu mic-in or +24dBu line-in. As Aaron mentions, the potential for that happening will depend on sensitive microphones, the SPL at the microphone position, and/or an overly hot external preamp output.
I've run into such situations a few times with the F8 on stage in close proximity to the drums using sensitive microphones. If I were using the F8n or Pro model I could switch to line-in with phantom power and avoid that problem when necessary.
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FWIW I repeated battery test at 3:20 both times, MK4V, P48 on, LED on. I ran Powerex 2600s. NOT the *pro* version.
Also, that damn Anker battery does not safely connect to the F3, wiggles and disconnects easily.
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The open question I'm still seeking an answer for is why 32bit fp was also tacked onto that, because the dynamic range capability of 24 bits also exceeds the dynamic range of the recorder's analog input stage and could have been used in exactly the same way.
I may not be understanding why you keep asking this - isn't the goal for the end user so they don't need to stress over setting levels, and the recorder's dynamic range sits comfortably with-in the file format's dynamic range? Or is that your point, that they could just do that with low levels in 24-bit?
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Yes, that's it.
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so i have a question
i assum when you do 'line in"
the +! that you can raise
is just to magnify the wave form?
thanks for the answer ahead of time
Taz
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A little birdie told me that the F3 preamp chip isn’t even likely to come anywhere near 24 bits of resolution ( or even 16 bits). And listening to several recordings, I can hear that. 32 bit is great but the actual resolution is set by the preamp, and 32 bit float does not change that.
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In comparison to a traditional digital recorder, a multi-ADC design does not in itself increase the overload point of the recorder nor decrease its noise floor. Those thresholds are determined by the the analog input stage ahead of the ADC. What implementation of the dual ADC scheme does is increase the dynamic range of the ADC stage enough that it matches or slightly exceeds the dynamic range of the analog input stage, thereby avoiding the need to manually adjust input gain. It doesn't increase the dynamic range capability of the ADC by a massive amount and doesn't need to, it only needs to increase it enough to slightly exceed the limits of the analog input stage.
The open question I'm still seeking an answer for is why 32bit fp was also tacked onto that, because the dynamic range capability of 24 bits also exceeds the dynamic range of the recorder's analog input stage and could have been used in exactly the same way. I think its based in marketing. Manufacturers get to talk about +700 dB of dynamic range, being impossible to clip, all that. But those are the aspects of the file format itself and not the recorder feeding it. It totally ignores the real world constrictions of the necessary signal chain ahead of writing ones and zeros into the file format.
Yes its mostly marketing. neither the zoom F series or mixpre 32bit implementations increase dynamic range significantly.
In the case of the zoom, theyve just matched the ADC to an input level of +4dB. putting the 20 dB pad on the front also bumps the noise floor up by 20 dB vs mic in. In either case its in excess of 120dB of available dynamic range which is very good for all applications. But either stream could be recorded at 24-bit just as well, provided the user knew what input level setting corresponded with 0 dBFS at +4dB input.
I guess its easier for the manufacturers to 'keep up with the joneses' by taking advantage of cheap and increasingly common 32-bit ADCs, as opposed to spending a lot more money on actual analog circuit improvements that are harder to market.
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A little birdie told me that the F3 preamp chip isn’t even likely to come anywhere near 24 bits of resolution ( or even 16 bits). And listening to several recordings, I can hear that. 32 bit is great but the actual resolution is set by the preamp, and 32 bit float does not change that.
Well yes thats no secret, thats right in the specs
The stated -127dbU EIN of the F series recorders fits well within the 144dB 24-bit range
Good luck finding a field recording opportunity that even lets you find 100 dB of dynamic range
I usually record in 24 bit with any zoom i use.. and keep the levels peaking below 12dB. perfect every time. you could peak as low as +24 and come out to similar results
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maybe my question earlier was stated well...cuz i finally
figured out what the +1-16 option next to the line in
I saw a youtube video where a guy recorded at +16 and +1 and then showed
the signal no matter how quiet or how loud could be adjusted in post
so the questiion i have for all of you is
whats a good setting for a feed from a baby box - line in
i've been hearing put it at +2
anyone got idea?
Taz
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maybe my question earlier was stated well...cuz i finally
figured out what the +1-16 option next to the line in
I saw a youtube video where a guy recorded at +16 and +1 and then showed
the signal no matter how quiet or how loud could be adjusted in post
so the questiion i have for all of you is
whats a good setting for a feed from a baby box - line in
i've been hearing put it at +2
anyone got idea?
Taz
Since you can fix any setting like that in post, why not try a few different ways and decide what works best for you?
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maybe my question earlier was stated well...cuz i finally
figured out what the +1-16 option next to the line in
I saw a youtube video where a guy recorded at +16 and +1 and then showed
the signal no matter how quiet or how loud could be adjusted in post
so the questiion i have for all of you is
whats a good setting for a feed from a baby box - line in
i've been hearing put it at +2
anyone got idea?
Taz
It does not matter, so play around. You are not setting the recording level (gain), that is set by the recorder. You are just setting the post recording output volume, (fader). What you choose will not at all affect the sound quality even if the setting you choose is way too high or way too low. Your choice only affects what you do in post, and has nothing to do with the recorded sound level (gain). Your setting that would perhaps give you the least work in post (if that matters to you), would be best determined by the preamp and loudness of the show, just like any recording. The biggest difference is that if you choose a level too high or too low, it does not matter because it is not the recorded level (gain) it is the output level (fader)
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maybe my question earlier was stated well...cuz i finally
figured out what the +1-16 option next to the line in
I saw a youtube video where a guy recorded at +16 and +1 and then showed
the signal no matter how quiet or how loud could be adjusted in post
so the questiion i have for all of you is
whats a good setting for a feed from a baby box - line in
i've been hearing put it at +2
anyone got idea?
Taz
It does not matter, so play around. You are not setting the recording level (gain), that is set by the recorder. You are just setting the post recording output volume, (fader). What you choose will not at all affect the sound quality even if the setting you choose is way too high or way too low. Your choice only affects what you do in post, and has nothing to do with the recorded sound level (gain). Your setting that would perhaps give you the least work in post (if that matters to you), would be best determined by the preamp and loudness of the show, just like any recording. The biggest difference is that if you choose a level too high or too low, it does not matter because it is not the recorded level (gain) it is the output level (fader)
thank you totallly makes sense
u tottally explained it thank u
Taz
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Something I’ve been meaning to post: don’t forget that Zoom recorders (at least the f3 and f6) make channel 1 left and channel 2 right. Well when you’re directly facing the xlr inputs on the f3, channel 1 is on the RIGHT and channel 2 is in the LEFT.
I’m accustomed to some older recorders where I’m used to plugging the left mic into the left slot (when looking directly at the inputs) and the right mic into the right slot, if that makes sense. But you need to reverse that for the f3. I think the first show I recorded I got them mixed up, not a huge deal but certainly noteworthy.
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(https://i.imgur.com/bUbB07T.jpg)
1 is left and 2 is right.
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I tried to use my words carefully but I meant when directly facing the inputs. I consider this upside down because well, the actual number “1” (and the “2”) that they physically emboss on the recorder, are upside down from the angle in your pic.
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ok did some battery test runs
got the Nih battery nickels
rechargables Powerex
i been recording for over 5 hours - on line in - no phantom
and it still has three bars
i'mma use with preamp so i don't need phantom
but will do tests with phantom
and i also have some li ion rechargbles
Taz
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I was about to purchase an external power source for my Zoom F3 when I remembered that my newer Wurkkos TS25 flashlight has a power bank feature. Last night, I conducted a test with my Rycote HC-22 Shotgun Mic (48v phantom @ 96k/32bit-float), and I was able to record for 16 hours straight using just the flashlight. I used a premium Molicel 21700 P45B 4500mAh 45A Battery. While it's definitely pricier than some Anker options out there, you also get a great flashlight. Just thought I'd share...
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This all you need to power the F3 externally. Footprint is almost the same as the F3.
https://www.amazon.com/Anker-PowerCore-Ultra-Compact-High-Speed-Technology/dp/B0194WDVHI?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&smid=A294P4X9EWVXLJ&th=1
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This all you need to power the F3 externally. Footprint is almost the same as the F3.
https://www.amazon.com/Anker-PowerCore-Ultra-Compact-High-Speed-Technology/dp/B0194WDVHI?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&smid=A294P4X9EWVXLJ&th=1
This is exactly what I use with my F3. Works great.
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Just picked up one of these used, off Reverb for $225 shipped. Looking forward to joining the 32 Bit Revolution !
Thank you Fantasy Football Gods :D
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Reposting here for some thoughts:
So, I’m in the midst of changing my philosophy with taping a bit. Quick backstory - have been at this, off an on, for about 20 years now. Started very simple with cheapo set up - eventually settled into a CA rig. Over the years made my way up into multichannel, but in recent years have just not been into the hassle of the setup & more advanced post production.
For now, I’m basically running a share MV88 into an iPhone and calling it a day. I’m probably fine with that, but I do have a Zoom F3 and the ability to run that setup when needed (I basically only mess with mic stand taping when it’s crystal clear that the band is ok with it, and it’s not going to be a hassle getting it in).
I DO like the ease of taping 32 bit, so I’m wondering the best way to utilize the F3 in a kind of >:D / low profile way - like running a pair of DPAs, or something cheaper like CA / SP mini mics into it. Is my best bet some sort of XLR adapter?
Like, ultimately running 4061 > F3 would be ideal. Even if I needed a battery box, that would still be pretty straightforward. But it would be super easy to set up, and generally post work would be fairly straightforward.
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if you can find one a dpa mma:a dvice and any microdot microphones and an iphone make a dead simple and super low profile setup.
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if you can find one a dpa mma:a dvice and any microdot microphones and an iphone make a dead simple and super low profile setup.
Yup, I actually ran that rig for a few years. As good as it gets in terms of low profile…IMO.
That said, the dvice is a pricy piece of gear…and I’m looking for something 32Bit.
If that deity 32 bit recorder ever sees the light of day, I might give that a look.
I mean, I’m being pretty particular here…going to 32Bit isn’t THAT big of a deal…I’m just looking to see what sort of options are best with the F3 that I already have (and like).
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Im going to go out on a limb and say that the deity won’t reach the performance of the d:vice which has a well-designed mic preamp circuit and a very high dynamic range for its size.
Just a hunch tho.
Adding 32bit is a nice feature but imo pretty academic to 406x series mics that have (relatively) high self-noise. In most cases (esp >:D environment) you’re working with a signal that can easily fit into a 16 bit container, and very very easily into a 24 bit container.
d:vice with the gain turned all the way down will still pull a recording in a loud environment with decent levels above -24 dB so plenty of headroom there
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Folks have a preferred small protection bag they put this unit in ? Currently have a mesh bag found amongst my things, but looking for something with a little more cushion to keep it in within my larger bag.
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https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B1JJLHFN?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
I picked up this hard case made for the F3 on Amazon for $15. Not much bigger than the unit and has room for a power cable too.
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The 32 FP autoranging ADC stuff becomes a game-changer when you are recording things with somewhat unpredictable dynamic range and you can't do a proper sound check.
So while I agree with what breakonthru posted above, it's more on the upper end of levels that this format has been most useful for me where I don't have to think about gain levels, limiters, etc. If the dynamics of what you are recording are rather consistent/predictable, the benefits of this recording format are not nearly as great.
Case in point: I am recording a school district choral festival next week. I'll have my 788 back in house from its fresh once-over at the mothership. But I will record this concert with my F6, Even though I find the 788 to have a little better sound quality. This is because I will be supervising a large bunch of kids, conducting my own students, and having a compressed setup window with two separate mic arrays. The 788 would mean I'm taking a second peli case in with me and I need to travel a bit more light and compact. I won't have time to do a proper level check for the 788. Heck, I won't even be able to get at my gear once the concert begins.
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https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B1JJLHFN?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
I picked up this hard case made for the F3 on Amazon for $15. Not much bigger than the unit and has room for a power cable too.
Ordered, Ty!
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I bought the same hard cases for my two F3s--they seem pretty robust.
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First Recording w the new ZOOM F3 last night, and first of the new year. Came out pretty nice. Went with +4 gain on both channels, smaller acoustically nice listening room sat 25 people.
https://archive.org/details/BlueWaveRamblers.2024-01-12.AKGCK61.Flac24
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First Recording w the new ZOOM F3 last night, and first of the new year. Came out pretty nice. Went with +4 gain on both channels, smaller acoustically nice listening room sat 25 people.
https://archive.org/details/BlueWaveRamblers.2024-01-12.AKGCK61.Flac24
The gain doesn't actually matter. Its useful for monitoring channels or listening purposes as I understand it. That said, I typically have it set to +4 or +8 so I can use for playback driving home.
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The gain visible on the recorder during the recording process is only for your viewing entertainment. Just normalize the volume in post.
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The gain visible on the recorder during the recording process is only for your viewing entertainment. Just normalize the volume in post.
NO... actually the view of the waveform IS what it will look like when opened in an editor
you can entertain yourself all you want thereafter
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The gain visible on the recorder during the recording process is only for your viewing entertainment. Just normalize the volume in post.
NO... actually the view of the waveform IS what it will look like when opened in an editor
you can entertain yourself all you want thereafter
The point is it’s not gain. Nothing is lost. When you fix it in post it’s fixed.
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Like Grawk said. Adjusting the display of the waveform has nothing to do with adjusting the gain of the recorder.
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^
Going on 2 years of misunderstanding/disagreement.
F3 wins for easiest to use and hardest to understand recorder so far 😀.
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Like Grawk said. Adjusting the display of the waveform has nothing to do with adjusting the gain of the recorder.
it most certainly does effect the signal being recorded... but you have the ability to alter it in post to your liking
^
Going on 2 years of misunderstanding/disagreement.
F3 wins for easiest to use and hardest to understand recorder so far 😀.
it's actually NO different from any other 32Bit Float recorder* including the SD MixPre-ii
they all have the ability to set the APPEARANCE of the waveform but also be able to adjust to your liking in post
the F3 is small, easy to power and operate and has decent preamps... it gets used frequently
*NOTE:
when I ran a Tascam X8 for several months,
I noticed instances while recording where I saw my peak indicator go off on the display
when opening those files, I NEVER saw any peaks... ???
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Yes, people are getting confused again, but it's mostly Zoom's fault for writing false information in an important part of the F3 manual. I'm hoping this post can finally put the issue to bed, so stick with me here.
First we need to clarify our terms: Gain is the adjustment to the analog signal level pre-ADC. Record level adjusts the digital level being written to the file, after it's gone through ADC and anything else that might be in the signal chain. Some people are using these interchangeably and that's muddying the waters. With that out of the way...
Gain (analog preamp level) is not adjustable on the F3, nor is it on the other F-series recorders when they are set to 32FP format. (I'm not sure that the SD MixPre-II works the same way. They may still allow gain adjustment in this mode - I might ask over in that thread.)
All of the F-series still have the ability to adjust record level in this mode. It's not just an "appearance" thing; you are in fact changing the digital level being written to the file. The F6 and F8 manuals make this very clear, but the F3 manual is a hot mess when it comes to this point.
From the F3 manual:
NOTE
- The magnification rate can be set in 11 steps: ×1 , ×2, ×4, ×8, ×16, ×32, ×64, ×128, ×256, ×512 and ×1024.
- Be careful with the volume if you are monitoring the input sound with headphones, for example.
- Changing the magnification rate, even in the middle of recording, will not affect the recording level.
As several people have reported in this thread, the third point is false! The magnification level does adjust the recorded level. EDIT: Thanks to the test performed by @commongrounder, we now know that adjusting the magnification setting while recording is underway does not change the recorded level; only the monitored output level.
The second point actually reinforces the fact that you are changing the post-ADC level. Otherwise if it was only affecting a visual display, the level in your headphone output would not change without you specifically adjusting the headphone output level, and they wouldn't need to warn us about it.
We can confirm that "Waveform Magnification" is actually a "Record Level" control by looking at the block diagram at the end of the manual. We can probably assume that the engineering team was involved in this diagram and that they actually know how the unit works, unlike the people who wrote the above excerpt.
There's a symbol under Waveform Amplification (Wait, I thought it was supposed to be Magnification??) that looks like a diagonal arrow on top of a circle - this represents a variable output. Notice that it is directly in the signal path, and that symbol appears in other areas where we know for sure that signal levels are being adjusted (Line Out, Headphone Volume, Alert Tone). The Waveform Display is shown to be a tap off of the main signal path.
So what we find is that the description of how the F3 works is not how the block diagram says it works, and the two places use different terms for the same thing, and one of those terms is misleading. If it really did work the way the description said, then that variable output symbol would not be in the signal path but instead would be shown after a branch off at Waveform Display.
So, bottom line:
Gain is fixed.
Waveform Magnification is actually Amplification and is a digital level adjustment.
Manual is bad.
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^^extremely helpful
If I understand, the implication is "leave the levels alone when recording -- changing doesn't improve quality or signal-to-noise ratio, but it will screw up your recording (in post it would be difficult to exactly undo the changing-magnification-over-time caused by adjusting levels in the middle of a record)"
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"Gain is fixed.
Waveform Magnification is actually Amplification and is a digital level adjustment.
Manual is bad."
Well said. Thanks for this clarification.
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^^extremely helpful
If I understand, the implication is "leave the levels alone when recording -- changing doesn't improve quality or signal-to-noise ratio, but it will screw up your recording (in post it would be difficult to exactly undo the changing-magnification-over-time caused by adjusting levels in the middle of a record)"
I guess that's something to test - i have assumed that you can only change the levels before hitting record.
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^^extremely helpful
If I understand, the implication is "leave the levels alone when recording -- changing doesn't improve quality or signal-to-noise ratio, but it will screw up your recording (in post it would be difficult to exactly undo the changing-magnification-over-time caused by adjusting levels in the middle of a record)"
I guess that's something to test - i have assumed that you can only change the levels before hitting record.
I know for sure that changing Magnification before hitting record effects the record level. It may or may not lock the record level while recording is underway, which would make that line from the manual partially true at least. I don't own an F3 to test this; I just have used my friend's a few times.
Would someone please make a test recording of something with a constant level while you change Magnification?
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This morning I performed a test with my F3. Started with X64 magnification on a steady state sound through a stereo microphone. This gave a nice strong waveform on the display, and clear monitoring. I then started recording, and after a few moments raised the magnification on each channel to X512 magnification. This, of course, filled the the waveform display pretty solidly, and required that I reduce the monitoring level. A clear and easily heard level change. I then stopped the recording and played it back on the spot. The playback magnification/level *never* changed during the course of the recording and stayed at the original X64 setting. This tells me two things. One is the block diagram is oversimplified/inaccurate, and two, that single sentence #3: - Changing the magnification rate, even in the middle of recording, will not affect the recording level is very poorly worded. It should read: - Changing the magnification rate, once recording has started, will not affect the recording level. I totally understand the logic behind this. As SMsound wrote, it would be very difficult to track digital level changes in post with any precision, and the issue of only being able to change magnification on one channel at a time makes it impractical anyway. Best to do any level manipulation in post, exactly what 32-bit float is all about.
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I totally understand the logic behind this. As SMsound wrote, it would be very difficult to track digital level changes in post with any precision, and the issue of only being able to change magnification on one channel at a time makes it impractical anyway. Best to do any level manipulation in post, exactly what 32-bit float is all about.
Good test and totally agreed on all main conclusions. Except one small nit- It would actually be quite easy for Zoom to implement tracking of digital level changes with precision if doing so were helpful. They could simply insert a marker whenever record level is changed. Unlike an analog gain change, afterward the marked digital level change would be relatively simple to correct because it's immediate and of a discrete value.
But that's all academic. Its not how magnification level is implemented and would not be a good idea to do it that way anyway for the reasons noted.
/nit. Thanks for the test!
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^ Appreciate all the diligence and details shared by everyone above. Very good information to know going forward.
Here's a photo of my F3 Decepticon. The metal cage removed weighs approximately 150 grams. The 'slimmer' F3 with 2x AA batteries installed weighs approximately the same, ~150 grams.
There are also some links to additional photos below showing the inner workings of the device. While this post is not a recommendation per se, if you want to go this route, focus on the two images with the red arrows highlighting the inner bolt/screw. You will need to source a tiny bolt/nut (I chose 1.4mm bolt and nut) in order to secure the inner PCB, which houses the 4 buttons. This secures the ability to press the 4 buttons without the PCB board bending slightly, thereby limiting the left-most buttons to be depressed.
The mics in the photos are MG M20 > PFA and AKG C577/CK77.
Additional photos below. Note these aren't instructional as that has already been covered in previous posts. They're just meant to show what's possible. The device is fairly easy to take apart with patience and decent lighting.
https://imgur.com/a/3fcO6gB
https://imgur.com/a/vRWoeMF
(https://i.imgur.com/N0F9DAN.jpeg) (https://www.shareicon.net/data/128x128/2015/09/14/100864_decepticon_512x512.png)
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This morning I performed a test with my F3. Started with X64 magnification on a steady state sound through a stereo microphone. This gave a nice strong waveform on the display, and clear monitoring. I then started recording, and after a few moments raised the magnification on each channel to X512 magnification. This, of course, filled the the waveform display pretty solidly, and required that I reduce the monitoring level. A clear and easily heard level change. I then stopped the recording and played it back on the spot. The playback magnification/level *never* changed during the course of the recording and stayed at the original X64 setting. This tells me two things. One is the block diagram is oversimplified/inaccurate, and two, that single sentence #3: - Changing the magnification rate, even in the middle of recording, will not affect the recording level is very poorly worded. It should read: - Changing the magnification rate, once recording has started, will not affect the recording level. I totally understand the logic behind this. As SMsound wrote, it would be very difficult to track digital level changes in post with any precision, and the issue of only being able to change magnification on one channel at a time makes it impractical anyway. Best to do any level manipulation in post, exactly what 32-bit float is all about.
Thank you for doing this test. I edited my overly long post above with this info.
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I totally understand the logic behind this. As SMsound wrote, it would be very difficult to track digital level changes in post with any precision, and the issue of only being able to change magnification on one channel at a time makes it impractical anyway. Best to do any level manipulation in post, exactly what 32-bit float is all about.
Good test and totally agreed on all main conclusions. Except one small nit- It would actually be quite easy for Zoom to implement tracking of digital level changes with precision if doing so were helpful. They could simply insert a marker whenever record level is changed. Unlike an analog gain change, afterward the marked digital level change would be relatively simple to correct because it's immediate and of a discrete value.
But that's all academic. Its not how magnification level is implemented and would not be a good idea to do it that way anyway for the reasons noted.
/nit. Thanks for the test!
Interesting idea, but I wonder what software would read those flags in post. Or are you suggesting it's a process that could just be performed on the F3 itself?
What I would prefer instead is the option to specify which buttons are locked by the hold function: transport only, or transport plus level controls. I'm pretty sure both the F6 and F8 have this setting.
Of course, Zoom would first have to acknowledge that the F3 has buttons that adjust the record level and/or analog output levels, depending on the transport status.
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Here's a test I ran with my F3 recording my (loud) living room speakers at each magnification level. I copied all the files to my DAW and examined them, including the blatantly clipping files. When I brought the levels back down, the "clipping" disappeared and the files sounded completely normal. They also "looked" normal, and were not squashed down, the peaks etc were similar to the files recorded at the "appropriate" magnification levels. *shrugs
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=198715.msg2400122#msg2400122
My conclusions based on those results could be wrong, feel free to correct anything. But I encourage anyone who owns an F3 to take a half hour to do this exact test in your own living room. When you actually see (and hear) for yourself that a horribly clipping audio file is somehow actually normal, I dunno, it changed how I view the magnification setting.
Ultimately I think Voltronic is right, this is Zoom's fault lol with their weird wording and manual.
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Thanks for the F3 Decepticon insights, Horus!
Interesting idea, but I wonder what software would read those flags in post. Or are you suggesting it's a process that could just be performed on the F3 itself?
What I would prefer instead is the option to specify which buttons are locked by the hold function: transport only, or transport plus level controls. I'm pretty sure both the F6 and F8 have this setting.
Either. Correction on the recorder itself would be best I suppose. I've not figured out how to transfer markers set on from F8 over to the DAW. If anyone knows how to do this for the F-series Zooms please let me know. As long as FLAC is set to "keep foreign metadata", any markers set using my Tascam recorders are retained in the WAV files. Was disappointed when the F8 did not appear to do the same, but never dug into it.
F8 does allow for very granular setting of what gets locked with the hold function, but I rarely use it because the recorder doesn't feature a dedicated hold switch. It's activated by a key-press combo and I don't want to take the chance of messing up a running recording trying to activate/deactivate it.
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^ Appreciate all the diligence and details shared by everyone above. Very good information to know going forward.
Here's a photo of my F3 Decepticon. The metal cage removed weighs approximately 150 grams. The 'slimmer' F3 with 2x AA batteries installed weighs approximately the same, ~150 grams.
There are also some links to additional photos below showing the inner workings of the device.
THANK YOU for posting and very cool. A 3D-printed or laser-cut top to replace the leather strips in your pic would be ideal -- someone here want to make a .dmg file?
Alternatively, I may mill the 4 'legs' off of mine and leave the metal top plate as-is in place, rather than removing the entire cage. Having disassembled one, what do you think about this plan?
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^ FYI, the "leather" strips are just razor cut pieces of gaffer tape to match the shape of the front. It helps to cover/conceal the exposed holes for bolts that screw into the outer metal cage. The four buttons on the face sort of lie between the metal cage and the plastic case, so the tape also holds them into place. You're right, though, that a replacement piece could be 3D printed to lay over the face. Perhaps a mold and cast could be made from silicone (or something similar) from the metal cage itself. I like the gaffer tape since it can be easily cut to size and replaced in minutes.
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Found this video for taking the bars off...no hacksaw required.
https://youtu.be/0W2nYJD56ow?si=Q4g80U87Ini_mU9V
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FYI...the F3 fits perfectly in a soft beer koozie, and allows the xlr's to run out of the top. Great if you want to protect the device and cover the lock switch while recording.
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So it doesn't matter if I set the "gain" which apparently isn't gain at all, to +2, +4, +8 or +64 before hitting record ?
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So it doesn't matter if I set the "gain" which apparently isn't gain at all, to +2, +4, +8 or +64 before hitting record ?
It doesn't affect the final output, assuming you normalize in post.
Think of it as you set the "listening volume" in advance.
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So it doesn't matter if I set the "gain" which apparently isn't gain at all, to +2, +4, +8 or +64 before hitting record ?
It doesn't affect the final output, assuming you normalize in post.
Think of it as you set the "listening volume" in advance.
This ^. I think the idea is you use the waveform display to adjust the magnification to show an active full amplitude waveform before recording. Then the headphone amplifier and its level will have the optimum dynamic range and headroom for monitoring, and the resulting file will be closer to peaking at 0dbfs. Normalizing or other dynamics processing in post will fine tune the level to conform to a fixed point bit depth file. Of course the beauty of this is you don’t need to be exact. I mean you *can* set the magnification to some extreme value and it’ll still be recoverable (assuming you don’t clip the preamp input), but why do that, especially if you wish to headphone monitor or feed audio to a camera.
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I bought the same hard case. Perfect fit.
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As for external power, I bought one of these recently. 5,200mah Tested it last night, running P48, w/ Line Audio CM4's. Got to 6 hours runtime, with one light on, when I turned it off. Great lil' battery for people that like a low profile setup.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09NRG2YT3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1
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What are people transferring their files into? Soundforge, audacity?
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What are people transferring their files into? Soundforge, audacity?
Basically everything supports 32 bit float these days, so whatever you like.
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Ran mine last night with the MK21s and NBox Platinum for Daniel Donato's Cosmic Country set. Nice rig without metal detectors.
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Haven't read too much about 32bit float or this recorder before today. Reading about this recorder, I get all teary-eyed thinking back to all of the >:D shows that I messed up when I first started taping back in the early to mid-90s, shows like the Robillard/Bangham years of the TBirds lineup, Luther Allison, Johnny Clyde Copeland (both of whom died in 1997), the Danny Morris years of the Nighthawks, Johnny Winter, and on and on.
Sooo many of those guys are dead now....what I wouldn't have given to have today's gear back then so that those recordings would have turned out. :bawling:
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Ran mine last night with the MK21s and NBox Platinum for Daniel Donato's Cosmic Country set. Nice rig without metal detectors.
what batteries you using - i know you dont like rechargables
fyi for getting in the door i been using your key fob in dish mehtod - i just tell them f3 is my car stereo and they just go ok
Taz
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so was thinking of the f3 for low profile. I saw some old posts about removing the steel cage. is that an option?
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^ Yes, it can be removed fully intact. It sheds half of the total weight. See my post at the top of the previous page.
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^ Yes, it can be removed fully intact. It sheds half of the total weight. See my post at the top of the previous page.
thanks found it. so you need to take the f3 itself apart in order to unscrew the front of the cage, and then run bolts through the front faceplate, from the inside, to hold it all together properly? if im understanding correctly
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Ran mine last night with the MK21s and NBox Platinum for Daniel Donato's Cosmic Country set. Nice rig without metal detectors.
what batteries you using - i know you dont like rechargables
fyi for getting in the door i been using your key fob in dish mehtod - i just tell them f3 is my car stereo and they just go ok
Taz
I use engergizer lithiums. last all day.
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^ Yes, it can be removed fully intact. It sheds half of the total weight. See my post at the top of the previous page.
thanks found it. so you need to take the f3 itself apart in order to unscrew the front of the cage, and then run bolts through the front faceplate, from the inside, to hold it all together properly? if im understanding correctly
If you want to take it to that extent, then yes. It required me to fully disassemble, because the cage is bolted to the inner molded face. That's why I had to add that tiny nut to the face to hold the through-bolt that keeps the 4 buttons/PCB in place - it would normally screw into the metal face.
Another TSer kicked off this effort in a different route (see older posts) that appears to retain a portion of the metal cage still affixed to those bolts.
Please also note that I approached mine in a "quick and dirty" fashion, fully aware of any potential warranty loss. This thing has dozens of tiny bolts holding the innards together, but really only a fraction were required to reassemble to my liking/needs. It's kind of amazing and hard to believe how tiny and light this is. XLRs aside, it could almost fit in a 5th pocket. At least in some old JNCOs. :P
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Bit of a stab in the dark here......
Does anyone know the upper frequency limit of the F3 'line out' jack when the device is used at 192KHz sampling? ..... It's not in the manual, and Zoom haven't been able to help so far.
I'm interested in using a Zoom F3 to record ultrasound at around 50KHz......
Zoom have confirmed to me the actual unit frequency response is +0.5dB/ -1dB @ 60KHz, but are unable to advise whether that upper limit applies to the line out socket as well...
I can understand the headphone output being upper frequency limited, but hopefully not the line out socket.
I currently use the line out from my Tacam DR100Mk3 to monitor ultrasound recordings in real tme - via a custom heterodyne monitor device - and that works fine.
I'm hoping the F3 will allow me to do the same.
But that depends on the upper frequency limit of the line out jack........
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Bit of a stab in the dark here......
Does anyone know the upper frequency limit of the F3 'line out' jack when the device is used at 192KHz sampling? ..... It's not in the manual, and Zoom haven't been able to help so far.
I'm interested in using a Zoom F3 to record ultrasound at around 50KHz......
Zoom have confirmed to me the actual unit frequency response is +0.5dB/ -1dB @ 60KHz, but are unable to advise whether that upper limit applies to the line out socket as well...
I can understand the headphone output being upper frequency limited, but hopefully not the line out socket.
I currently use the line out from my Tacam DR100Mk3 to monitor ultrasound recordings in real tme - via a custom heterodyne monitor device - and that works fine.
I'm hoping the F3 will allow me to do the same.
But that depends on the upper frequency limit of the line out jack........
You could test this yourself by using any number of online test tone generators to make an ultrasonic tone sweep. Put that file on your F3 memory card, play the file, and monitor the output.
EDIT: You can just download the 192 kHz sweep from here:
https://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_highdefinitionaudio.php
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You could test this yourself by using any number of online test tone generators to make an ultrasonic tone sweep. Put that file on your F3 memory card, play the file, and monitor the output.....
Thanks for your reply. Sadly I don't have an F3 to check that.
I'm only going to buy one if the 'live' line out response extends to at least 60KHz during recording ( which is what I understand is the upper frequency limit of the F3 @ 192 KHz sampling ).
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You could test this yourself by using any number of online test tone generators to make an ultrasonic tone sweep. Put that file on your F3 memory card, play the file, and monitor the output.....
Thanks for your reply. Sadly I don't have an F3 to check that.
I'm only going to buy one if the 'live' line out response extends to at least 60KHz during recording ( which is what I understand is the upper frequency limit of the F3 @ 192 KHz sampling ).
I suppose you could see if there's somebody else at Zoom tech support who could find out the answer for you. I suspect that they have not tested the line out on this unit very rigorously. On a recorder this inexpensive, they are putting all of their money into the mic preamps and ADC, and the analog output stage is likely comprised of cheaper components.
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You could test this yourself by using any number of online test tone generators to make an ultrasonic tone sweep. Put that file on your F3 memory card, play the file, and monitor the output.....
Thanks for your reply. Sadly I don't have an F3 to check that.
I'm only going to buy one if the 'live' line out response extends to at least 60KHz during recording ( which is what I understand is the upper frequency limit of the F3 @ 192 KHz sampling ).
Looks like neither F3 line out or headphone output are bandwidth limited. First sweep is line out and second sweep headphone out to F6 (the line out clipped the F6 inputs but still shows that the swap file played all the way through).
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I suppose you could see if there's somebody else at Zoom tech support who could find out the answer for you. I suspect that they have not tested the line out on this unit very rigorously. On a recorder this inexpensive, they are putting all of their money into the mic preamps and ADC, and the analog output stage is likely comprised of cheaper components.
I do have a second request in with Zoom Support, but they don't currently have the answer ... thanks for you reply.
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Looks like neither F3 line out or headphone output are bandwidth limited. First sweep is line out and second sweep headphone out to F6 (the line out clipped the F6 inputs but still shows that the swap file played all the way through).
Thanks for posting those.
Looks like the headphone out is a lot more linear than the line out! ... Not sure what those 2 'dips' are near the top of the line out display ?
Headphone out looks a lot better ....seems to roll off pretty steeply at around 60KHz , but is pretty linear below that. (Line out seems to vary quite lot in amplitude?)......
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Looks like neither F3 line out or headphone output are bandwidth limited. First sweep is line out and second sweep headphone out to F6 (the line out clipped the F6 inputs but still shows that the swap file played all the way through).
Thanks for posting those.
Looks like the headphone out is a lot more linear than the line out! ... Not sure what those 2 'dips' are near the top of the line out display ?
Headphone out looks a lot better ....seems to roll off pretty steeply at around 60KHz , but is pretty linear below that. (Line out seems to vary quite lot in amplitude?)......
You might need something decidedly more high-end than an F3. Sound Devices tends to make pretty robust analog line outs on their units. You're going to spend quite a lot more, however.
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You might need something decidedly more high-end than an F3. Sound Devices tends to make pretty robust analog line outs on their units. You're going to spend quite a lot more, however.
Strangely, for my application, probably not?......... I currently use my Tascam DR100MK3 to record bat ultrasound, and the line out is used as an input to a custom made heterodyne detector, which allows for the ultrasound to be 'heard' in real time.
It is also useful to record the audio range tones produced by the heterodyne mixer - alongside the actual ultrasound recording - to allow for accurate monitoring.
But the heterodyne signal recording does not have to be especially accurate.
Looks as if the F3 might do the job OK....
A Sound Devices Mixpre3 II would be great of course... but I can't justify the cost - at least not at the present time! .... :)
Thanks again for your input and suggestions
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The theoretical limit for a sampling rate of 192 is 96kHz, less the width of the stop-band filtering as actualized, and the headphone out looks nice and clean all the way up to over 90kHz with no aliasing.
Was the test sweep played as a digital file transferred to the recorder or through an analog input? Not fully sure how to interpret the aliasing mostly present in only the first half of the line-out plot. Given the mention of the overloaded input, my initial assumption was that overload distortion produced harmonics exceeding nyquist, insufficiently attenuated by the stop-band filtering. A test of the DAC is not a test of the ADC. If any content of your source actually reaches ~90Khz or higher it would be best to test the analog input with a sweep through the analog inputs to check if the ADC stop-band filtering prevents aliasing.
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took the f3 for its first 2 spins this weekend. captured the first 2 nights of dylan tour DPA 4021 > F3 (32/96). this is such a great stealth box! Tape over the hold switch and forget about it!
will post in kick down in a day or two but the dpas & f3 came home with smoking tapes!
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in audacity what function am I using to lower levels? I upped the magnification thec2nd night and got some "clipping"?
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in audacity what function am I using to lower levels? I upped the magnification thec2nd night and got some "clipping"?
Effect>Volume and Compression>Normalize *Not Loudness Normalization
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Looks like neither F3 line out or headphone output are bandwidth limited. First sweep is line out and second sweep headphone out to F6 (the line out clipped the F6 inputs but still shows that the swap file played all the way through).
Thanks for posting those.
Looks like the headphone out is a lot more linear than the line out! ... Not sure what those 2 'dips' are near the top of the line out display ?
Headphone out looks a lot better ....seems to roll off pretty steeply at around 60KHz , but is pretty linear below that. (Line out seems to vary quite lot in amplitude?)......
Just to add, I've had the chance to measure thngs for myself, and can confirm that the frequncey response of both the line out socket and the headphne jack extend to 60KHz within 0.5dB and up to 70KHz -6dB.
Above 80KHz no usefully measurable output.
Fortunately this response is always present, so that it's possible to monitor in real time as well as recording these ultrasonic frequencies.
The line out socket also has a limiter option, which will be quite useful for the task I have planned.
Not a very common use for an audio reocrder of course, but it's useful to know the limits of this particular model.
My first use of 32 bit floating point recording, and I have to say I'm very impressed with that format!
Thanks again to those who have responded to my enquiry....
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amazon sale
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09SVN6J35 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09SVN6J35)
List Price: $349.99
-24% $267.34
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amazon sale
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09SVN6J35 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09SVN6J35)
List Price: $349.99
-24% $267.34
If only Amazon Canada had a sale on this right now...
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If only Amazon Canada had a sale on this right now...
B&H ships there. Looks like they have the same price right now.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1686005-REG/zoom_zf3_f3_digital_field_recorder.html
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If only Amazon Canada had a sale on this right now...
B&H ships there. Looks like they have the same price right now.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1686005-REG/zoom_zf3_f3_digital_field_recorder.html
I can order from Amazon US - still cheaper than paying the Canadian Price but hoping there's a sale up here shortly (usually a day or two later).
B&H and Zoom don't like Canada: "Shipping Restriction: Manufacturer's restrictions for the shipping address provided prevent us from completing an order on the following items - Zoom F3 2-Input / 2-Track Portable Field Recorder"
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Well that's a bummer. I wasn't aware. Hopefully a sale comes your way soon!
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Well that's a bummer. I wasn't aware. Hopefully a sale comes your way soon!
Thanks. Either that or somebody here (not in this thread, most likely) has one for sale. :)
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Well that's a bummer. I wasn't aware. Hopefully a sale comes your way soon!
Thanks. Either that or somebody here (not in this thread, most likely) has one for sale. :)
Or someone from down here traveling there can bring one.
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Well that's a bummer. I wasn't aware. Hopefully a sale comes your way soon!
Thanks. Either that or somebody here (not in this thread, most likely) has one for sale. :)
Or someone from down here traveling there can bring one.
I like your way of thinking. :)
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EDIT: Just pulled the trigger on the Amazon US deal. Had hoped to find one second hand, however, at the price being the second lowest ATL on Amazon, it made sense to (especially when it was about US$100 cheaper after exchange than buying it locally).
Questions from before:
1. Assuming screen can be dimmed and backlight can be turned off, etc., is there away to turn the screen off as well to save battery time?
2. Assuming it's gaffer tape over the red light and there's no way to turn it off in the settings.
3. What kind of run-times are people getting for 32/48 with +48V phantom power being on with either Eneloop Pros or Lithium Batteries?
Thanks all!
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Congrats. Not sure I can answer your questions. I use the phone app and just put the F3 in a pocket so the lights are not visible. The bluetooth app is not entirely stable but the recorder stays as is if I lose the connection. I run it with the NBox Platinum so I d not know much running 48V phantom.
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Congrats. Not sure I can answer your questions. I use the phone app and just put the F3 in a pocket so the lights are not visible. The bluetooth app is not entirely stable but the recorder stays as is if I lose the connection. I run it with the NBox Platinum so I d not know much running 48V phantom.
Thanks. Heading back to Zoomieland with the F3 and F6. Bluetooth on the SD MixPre-6 II that I own can lose its mind as well so this is nothing new, lol. Assuming you've just turned off the backlight, dimmed the display, taped up the red light and just lock the recorder and do the start stop from the app?
Guess I'll find out about batteries soon enough.
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EDIT: Just pulled the trigger on the Amazon US deal. Had hoped to find one second hand, however, at the price being the second lowest ATL on Amazon, it made sense to (especially when it was about US$100 cheaper after exchange than buying it locally).
Questions from before:
1. Assuming screen can be dimmed and backlight can be turned off, etc., is there away to turn the screen off as well to save battery time?
2. Assuming it's gaffer tape over the red light and there's no way to turn it off in the settings.
3. What kind of run-times are people getting for 32/48 with +48V phantom power being on with either Eneloop Pros or Lithium Batteries?
Thanks all!
1) Screen actually can't be dimmed, but it can be turned on an off. The screen contrast can be adjusted, but that isn't necessarily a dimming function.
2) The red light can't be turned off, so yeah it's tape if you're concerned about the shine. But as other have said, carrying it in your pocket is the way to go. I don't use the bluetooth dongel cause I don't particularly care about checking anything during the show other than to know I'm still rolling and batteries aren't dead. I just hit record and hold, make sure it's recording and then never think about it again until I'm in the car after the show.
3) I'm pretty sure I saw someone report back earlier in this thread that they got 8 hours with lithium batteries AND phantom. Seems like Eneloops were giving people long enough for an entire show...five plus hours. I use a small external so can't tell you from my own experience, but if you want to know definitely, the answer for both battery types is definitely buried in this thread somewhere.
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I like putting the F3s in pockets after I've engaged the hold buttons, but I have noticed with both of my F3s that the units will get pretty warm, if not hot, after an hour or two of use under those conditions. In these cases I am running small external batteries and am powering Line Audio CM3s. Not a big deal, but also not something I've noticed with any other small portable recorder.
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EDIT: Just pulled the trigger on the Amazon US deal. Had hoped to find one second hand, however, at the price being the second lowest ATL on Amazon, it made sense to (especially when it was about US$100 cheaper after exchange than buying it locally).
Questions from before:
1. Assuming screen can be dimmed and backlight can be turned off, etc., is there away to turn the screen off as well to save battery time?
2. Assuming it's gaffer tape over the red light and there's no way to turn it off in the settings.
3. What kind of run-times are people getting for 32/48 with +48V phantom power being on with either Eneloop Pros or Lithium Batteries?
Thanks all!
1) Screen actually can't be dimmed, but it can be turned on an off. The screen contrast can be adjusted, but that isn't necessarily a dimming function.
2) The red light can't be turned off, so yeah it's tape if you're concerned about the shine. But as other have said, carrying it in your pocket is the way to go. I don't use the bluetooth dongel cause I don't particularly care about checking anything during the show other than to know I'm still rolling and batteries aren't dead. I just hit record and hold, make sure it's recording and then never think about it again until I'm in the car after the show.
3) I'm pretty sure I saw someone report back earlier in this thread that they got 8 hours with lithium batteries AND phantom. Seems like Eneloops were giving people long enough for an entire show...five plus hours. I use a small external so can't tell you from my own experience, but if you want to know definitely, the answer for both battery types is definitely buried in this thread somewhere.
I’ve never seen NIMH do 5 hours, 4 is a stretch. I wouldn’t be comfortable doing a 2 set show on 2 batteries
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Hi
Just got an F3 can someone help me with phantom power for my Schopes CCM5s and DPA 4061s
Should I use line (+48v) or Mic (+48) or does it not matter
Also can anyone recommend a good smallish external power block that will give me 10 hours+ power?
cheers
Duncan
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Hi
Just got an F3 can someone help me with phantom power for my Schopes CCM5s and DPA 4061s
Should I use line (+48v) or Mic (+48) or does it not matter
Also can anyone recommend a good smallish external power block that will give me 10 hours+ power?
cheers
Duncan
mic in is what you want. line in will pad the input and raise noise floor by 20 dB
any of the common (smaller than a phone) 5000-7000 mAh batteries will run for longer than a show and you can use the internals as backup to get 2-7 hours depending on the cells you select.
a 10000 mah battery is a little bigger but should run it all day. the ccm5s are prob gonna use more power than the 4061s
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Hi
Just got an F3 can someone help me with phantom power for my Schopes CCM5s and DPA 4061s
Should I use line (+48v) or Mic (+48) or does it not matter
Also can anyone recommend a good smallish external power block that will give me 10 hours+ power?
cheers
Duncan
mic in is what you want. line in will pad the input and raise noise floor by 20 dB
any of the common (smaller than a phone) 5000-7000 mAh batteries will run for longer than a show and you can use the internals as backup to get 2-7 hours depending on the cells you select.
a 10000 mah battery is a little bigger but should run it all day. the ccm5s are prob gonna use more power than the 4061s
Thanks very much