Topic: Gun + Omni mix placement

[china_rider]

Hey all.... Had Al Howard and On the One last night.  My next show I'll get to use my guns for the first time.  I'm getting pretty psyched.  For the McDowell Mtn. Music Fest it looks like we are going to run AKG489 + AKG462 -> Busman R-4.  I'm getting pretty excited to hear how the combo will sound.  I was just wondering if anyone out there that has experience with guns may have some tips for setup.  Seems like we are going to have a few options.

1. I have a big ass markbar and sturdy sure stand, could run the guns pointing at the stacks and the omnis right next to them.
2. With the markbar run the guns at the stacks and one omni center between them.
3. Run the guns at the stacks and then split the omnis.  We can probably do up to a 10-15' split.

Any different config suggestions... Or what do you think above might be best?  We may try mixing it up each day with a different config.

Any tips appreciated.

Stay Kind,
Dana

[easy jim]

I would try all three and see what you end up liking most 

I've been thinking about this too for Wakarusa since I picked up the 568s.  I'm planning to try as many different configs. as possible to experiment, but I believe I'll end up liking a 3 mic with a card or omni up the middle best from what I've heard from similar 3 mic set-ups before.  The split omni option sounds like it could have amazing potential, but is certaintly a trade off with respect to the extra work in set-up and guarding two stands.  I like the idea of using an oversize stereo bar to run the guns at the stacks and a pair of omni outriggers.  That ought to be a fun option for when I'm using my laptop.

Hey all.... Had Al Howard and On the One last night.

Did you record Dana?

[china_rider]

I would try all three and see what you end up liking most 

I've been thinking about this too for Wakarusa since I picked up the 568s.  I'm planning to try as many different configs. as possible to experiment, but I believe I'll end up liking a 3 mic with a card or omni up the middle best from what I've heard from similar 3 mic set-ups before.  The split omni option sounds like it could have amazing potential, but is certaintly a trade off with respect to the extra work in set-up and guarding two stands.  I like the idea of using an oversize stereo bar to run the guns at the stacks and a pair of omni outriggers.  That ought to be a fun option for when I'm using my laptop.

Hey all.... Had Al Howard and On the One last night.

Did you record Dana?

Yep, JBanyon and I were there... I have not listened to much of it yet.  Made the mistake of leaving the R4 on MonoX4 recording and Al Howard had over a 2 hour set so the left and right combined is > 2gig.  I think Audition will do over the 2 gig limit, going to try to mix them tonight.

Also, The old guitar player from particle (charlie) was sitting in with on the one.  They had a great set.

I really want to try the split omnis... The fest usually does not allow taping but are starting to this year.  I think all tapers are going to be confined FOB in a taper only section.  We may be able to set up without alot of interference from the masses. :-}

[easy jim]

I really want to try the split omnis... The fest usually does not allow taping but are starting to this year.  I think all tapers are going to be confined FOB in a taper only section.  We may be able to set up without alot of interference from the masses. :-}

If you get a nice roped off area or something like that, split omnis would be very cool indeed.  Practice you're start-the-deck-and-walk-away routine hiding all the lights for Toots 

Yep, JBanyon and I were there... I have not listened to much of it yet.  Made the mistake of leaving the R4 on MonoX4 recording and Al Howard had over a 2 hour set so the left and right combined is > 2gig.  I think Audition will do over the 2 gig limit, going to try to mix them tonight.

Also, The old guitar player from particle (charlie) was sitting in with on the one.  They had a great set.

Nice!  Glad you guys made it to the show.  Personally, I'd rather run at mono x4 if I were using an R4 to facilitate a better post-mix.  As far as the DAW/software you are using is concerned, as long as the mono files are < 2GB you should be fine.  I'll be anxious to hear what you came up with.  PM me if you need setlist assistance, have questions, etc.

[Jammin72]

#2 has always what's been suggested to me for running with Shotguns.

Guns on the outside and single omni in the middle to fill out the sound.

This should give you a SBDesque sound with the low end of a room tape if mixed properly.

[taper420]

#2 has always what's been suggested to me for running with Shotguns.

Guns on the outside and single omni in the middle to fill out the sound.

This should give you a SBDesque sound with the low end of a room tape if mixed properly.

Seconded.... I've been running a similar 3-mic mix for awhile now and I'm happy most of the time.....other time's I'll just through out the middle mic in post. And I'm only using a card for the middle mic. I've been wanting to pick up an omni for this purpose for awhile now... anyone got an extra me62 lying around you'd like to sell me?..... darn, didn't think so.

[bdasilva]

The audence recordings from past years at MMMF are board sounding clear from back at the board. I got the board and the aud with split omnis of Hans Olson and you could barely hear the diffrence. (except for the crowd) (He was the opening act and the crowd was small) Its gonna be great. Just get some air between your mics and the crowd and it'll be great.

[china_rider]

So don't know if this is a stupid question or not.... But since the gun extensions are designed to filter out different sounds is it more important that the grills of the gun caps are mirrored between left or right or is it like normal caps where it does not really matter?

[easy jim]

So don't know if this is a stupid question or not.... But since the gun extensions are designed to filter out different sounds is it more important that the grills of the gun caps are mirrored between left or right or is it like normal caps where it does not really matter?

Good question...anyone?

I know my buddy who had 568s from back in the 90s always was sure that the switches on the mic body were on top when he set up the mics.  Those are fixed shots, though, so that does not specifically address your question re: the caps but seems to suggest that the answer is yes.

[taper420]

if this was the case wouldn't they have to provide a 3-D frequency responce chart?

[ts]

So don't know if this is a stupid question or not.... But since the gun extensions are designed to filter out different sounds is it more important that the grills of the gun caps are mirrored between left or right or is it like normal caps where it does not really matter?

I believe on the AKG's they should definitely be mirrored since the vents are only on one side of the tube. The more important question is how do you position those vents? Pointing straight up, to the outside, inside or down. If you are using RA's on the mic ends and position the RA's like you normally would, cable south, the vents are pointing up. I have been told on the CK69's, that the vents should be up. But let's say you have an overhang directly above you, pointing those vents up may not be a good idea. 

Now with the Nak CP4 caps, I don't think it mattered as much. The venting is all the way around the tube.