Topic: Zoom H1 XLR 32bit Handy Recorder announced on Aug. 8 2024

[adrianb]

Just been watching the Curtis Judd review of this recorder, and the associated comments. It doesn’t seem like there’s much love for this device, except for Ozpeter 😀

Anyway, mine arrives tomorrow so I will be able to make my own mind up on how good it is.

I rather think that people are expecting far too much given the price point. I was really thinking about buying the Tascam FR-AV2 as a replacement for my MixPre, but decided on this in addition to the MixPre. I can think of situations where this will be useful.

[rastasean]

I received the H1 XLR earlier this week and haven't been able to spend much time with it at all. It's my first 32 bit recorder and aside from my Zoom R16 (i think), this is my first portable two channel audio recorder of the Zoom line to own.

I think you're right, adrianb, many people have really high expectations for the price point.

Knowing you're receiving your recorder tomorrow, I'll hold back on my thoughts about it until you've assessed it on your own. Plus, I haven't spent much time using it so far.

[adrianb]

Took delivery of my Zoom H1 XLR today. First impressions?

Negatives: It feels cheap and plasticky. The user interface is very clunky, it’s like navigating an old Nokia phone. Maybe I will find the game Snake in the menu somewhere.

Positives: It is cheap, very cheap. It feels much smaller and lighter in the hand than I thought it would, and the official dimensions suggest. Not much bigger than my Roland R-07 and smaller than my Sony M10. The size, together with the plastic material, could make it an ideal stealth recorder. This is the purpose I bought it for. The battery life is looking good.

The first thing I am testing is battery life. At the moment I am running two Pluggy XLR PRIMO EM272Z1 microphones on 48v phantom power and after 3 hours of recording, using two Ikea AA rechargeables, there are still full bars on the battery indicator.

Tomorrow I will test with my Sennheiser MKH8040 microphones, which I guess will be more demanding, and then with some DPA 4061s in the 3.5mm input using PIP.

I will have more time in two days to give an opinion on the audio quality. Given the comments from Curtis Judd my hopes are not too high for audio quality but at this moment that’s almost irrelevant at this price point. Will it be suitable for stealth? A 32-bit recorder that I can set and forget before a gig? Will two small XLR microphones set at 110 degrees give a better result than my Sony M10 for stealth field recording?

At the moment I am feeling quite positive about my purchase, particularly as the recording time has just gone to 3 hrs 30 mins and there are still full bars on the battery indicator.

[adrianb]

I have owned this recorder for two days now. Not had time to check the quality of the audio recordings but have left the recorder running to check battery life:

1. Two Pluggy XLR PRIMO EM272Z1 microphones on 48v phantom power - 10 hrs 56 mins
2. Two Sennheiser MKH 8040 cardioids on 48v phantom power - 6 hrs 35 mins
3. Two DPA 4061 microphones on 2.5v PIP - 14 hrs 33 mins (Not sufficient voltage to power the mics, but will give an idea of battery life with other lavier mics)
4. Two DPA 4061 microphones on 9.0v PIP using XLR adapters - 11 hrs 38 mins

That really seems pretty excellent to me, running off two Ikea LADDA 2450 rechargeable batteries that I bought in 2017.

I can add that I like the file naming. Both date and time eg 241116-195742.WAV. Each file is 2097057KB in size and 1 hr 33 mins in length, and each of the last files was safely saved before the recorder shut down.

What is going to annoy me is that the battery indicator showed full (three bars) for too long, and I did have the correct battery setting in the menu. During the second test I noticed that the indicator only dropped to two bars after about 4 hrs 30 mins, one bar after about 5 hrs 30 mins, and then zero bars with a few minutes left. As soon as this unit stops showing a full battery might be the time to think about changing batteries.

Today I will be doing some comparisons with my MixPre-3 outside, and finding out what it is like with loud music as a potential stealth recorder.

EDIT: These recording times were measured with the screen permanently on during recording. The screen can be switched off during recording and I think at least an extra hour can be conservatively added to these times if it is. I have just left my Zoom H1 XLR run with the screen off and mics in the XLR inputs and obtained nearly 14 hours.

[adrianb]

Another thing I’ve noticed is that the top of the unit has two screws next to the XLR inputs. I won’t be able to resist unscrewing these and having a look 

I wonder if the XLR inputs are easily removable. If they are then I could imagine some modifications involving an improved 3.5mm input with 9v PIP.

[Ozpeter]

I'm really looking forward to you guys discovering that I'm totally deaf, or instead that my judgement in these matters is actually passable!

Note that in the comments to the Curtis Judd review, some of which I did find a bit snarky, I and others got into some argument with him about his definitely snarky comments about not being able to vary the a/d level during recording, as that would make setting the output to a camera difficult.  That whole concept of a way of working really troubled me - varying the recorded level to vary the output instead of... varying the output level and leaving the recorded level stable.  Anyway, after a slew of comments, he did graciously acknowledge that his concept in this area was incorrect, which was good to see.  He also revised some of his opinions about noise levels in a pinned comment.  Overall, of course he knows his stuff in the context of the work that he does, but I don't think he knows everything and his opinions have to be taken as interesting but not gospel.  I think he would probably agree with that.

There is such a danger from these permanent reviews on stuff which may be strongly influential on sales, but which may not actually prove to be totally fair in some cases, in both the good and bad directions.  I'm reminded of the early reviews for the "MicTrak" devices which rightly pointed out to severe RF problems - but the devices were quickly withdrawn and re-released two or three months later, without the problems which had arisen in the manufacture of the first batch.  But the original reviews are still there, and I suspect they are still affecting sales, given that I bought my M2 model for about half price (not that I'm complaining about the bargain!).

At risk of repeating myself, I believe that the preamp noise level in the H1 XLR is such that for almost all purposes it would be not a significant problem, and I would be surprised if the frequency response was not flat within the range of average hearing.  So really it comes down to the non-audio side - does it have the required features for the task in hand?  Is it robust enough?  Is the menu system easy to use?  [My view being that it's fine apart from two less-than-ideal aspects, so long as you are wearing good glasses].  And is it really necessary to spend more, if the rest is ok?  (Setting aside the irresistible urge to spend too much on audio equipment that we probably all suffer from...).

[Todd]

I've had an H1 XLR for a week and have done 2 shows.  Used to being able to monitor the recording via a phone like for the F3 or F2 but since you can't adjust the levels, as long as the red light is on and the Hold button pressed, full steam ahead.  So far so good as it can get thru metal detectors, which is what I want it for.   Also have a loaner DPA 4061 so a lot of exploring at the moment.   

Here's a track from a jam packed sold out Slowdive show that turned out pretty well audience by the soundboard.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/35kmwuqmpu3vx89sfshdd/Slowdive-11-14-24-chained-to-a-cloud-National-Richmond-VA-F3-L264-R4061-ADC.flac?rlkey=ybn21udaqvda29qlfplz1i4ja&dl=0


Also a Bruce Cockburn track from a seated sold out show.  Much quieter so had to boost levels, which added mic noise at times. 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gwdzvffwbrzunr64kr81s/Bruce-Cockburn-11-13-24-Where-the-Lions-Are-Jefferson-Theater-Charlottesville-VA-F23-4061-264-ADC.flac?rlkey=wpm3e0hknah98lmat98yt7dt5&dl=0

[adrianb]

Also have a loaner DPA 4061 so a lot of exploring at the moment.

What have you used to power the DPA4061 mics?

The 2.5v PIP on this unit is definitely not enough to power my DPA4061 mics. The 3.1v on my Roland R-07 can just about manage it though.

I am using XLR 48v to 9v adapters which are low profile and work very well, but are made of metal so less stealthy.

[TheJez]

Also a Bruce Cockburn track from a seated sold out show.  Much quieter so had to boost levels, which added mic noise at times. 

Are you sure it’s mic noise, or could it be recorder self-noise? I mean, that still is the big question with this recorder!

[Ozpeter]

I look forward to hearing those samples as soon as I get home.  As for the recorder self noise, it's down at -122du, which is highly unlikely to be heard without huge amounts of amplification of the recorded sound.  The venerable but respected Sony M10 had the same noise test figure as does the Roland R-05.  The Sony A10, popular here, offers -116dBu, for comparison.  The Zoom F3 is -128dBu.  So the H1 XLR is 6dBu less noisy than the A10, and 6dBu more noisy than the F3. 

Bear in mind that someone may say that's not a valid comparison...

[adrianb]

I managed to set aside two hours this afternoon to record some samples using my Primo EM272Z1 and Sennheiser MKH8040 microphones, together with my new Zoom H1 XLR recorder and Sound Devices MixPre-3 II.

The samples were taken on our patio, some road noise in the distance but mainly quiet with birdsong.

I think I’m in agreement with Ozpeter, that any noise is insignificant.

I definitely preferred the sound of the 8040s into the MixPre-3 over the Primos into the H1 XLR, but then the comparison was £3000 v £200. In all the combinations it was the microphones that made the most difference, not the recorder used. I thought I could hear a bit more hiss on the 8040s into the Zoom than into the Sound Devices, but insignificant at worst and I’m not even sure it’s not the Placebo Effect playing tricks with me … it’s a lot more expensive so it must sound better.

I will add that my ears are 60 years old, so it is also possible that I am unable to determine much difference.

My intended use for this unit remains stealth, either in a concert venue in a set and forget situation, or for field recording with some small pluggy mics that I can set down without anyone noticing.

[rastasean]

Here's a very short sample of the H1XLR recording a phone call with a little background chatter: https://audio.com/48c2
I had the mic game increased on the recorder to +20 and boosted as much as I could in Audacity.
Mics are Naiant X-X low sensitivity.

The low rumble you may hear is likely room noise and a little mic self noise.

I did not hear any RF interference. The mics were only a few cm away from each other and the cable was coiled up, so mics recorder and phone were all very close together.

[rastasean]

Initial impressions...

I'm a little disappointed and surprised the recorder didn't come with a usb-c to usb a cable for data transfer, especially since the recorder can be used as an audio interface.
I wasn't expecting a case, but a simple short cable would have been nice, and really expected.

I don't really have a problem with the plastic body of the recorder. In my hands, I don't think it's as cheap or plastic feeling as some other recorders, like the Fostex FR-2LE.
The battery door locks well, but rattles just a little if you try to jiggle it around. I'm surprised the SD door has a little plastic hinge; I was expecting something like the tascam dr-2d, where you push and pull on a door that's connected to a pair of plastic stoppers inside the recorder.

Turning the recorder on takes 10 seconds! Most of that time is accessing my SD card of only 32 gb, but maybe it's a slower card; turning the recorder off takes 4 seconds. When there is no sd card, the start up and shutdown times are about the same - 4 seconds. Maybe those with different (smaller, faster, larger, slower, etc) sd cards and report different start up times. But that's really only relevant once per startup.

Menu system is decent and reminds me of something like the Edirol R-44. I'm not sure what I would change or reorder around in it. Zoom R&D probably didn't spend a lot of time designing the menu and its layout.

During recording, i would have preferred an option between a waveform and levels, but we only get the waveform. I do like that if you're in mono x2 you can use the mixer button to adjust each channel individually, but only before recording, just like with the other two options.

Overall, I'm not disappointed with the recorder and don't have buyer's remorse at this point. Maybe that will change when i do a few more recordings and hear the noise Curtis was frustrated with.

I did watch this video of the Zoom H1E and will likely notbuy that recorder, even though it's less expensive than the H1 XLR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvCwJiAk3-o
Would you folks give it a listen and see what you think of that recorder? I'd rather hold my reservations and not have it color your thoughts.

[adrianb]

Just checked and my recorder is taking 5 seconds to switch on with a Samsung 64GB card, and 4 seconds to turn off.

[Ozpeter]

I've now listened to all the samples above and also watched the YouTube video about the H1essential.

Well, the H1 XLR samples sounded fine to me - but they made me reflect on how hard it is to make judgements about any audio device (with reasonable quality) using real-world audio samples.  The catch is that the recorder will be used for recording real world audio!  So while measurements can give some indication as to whether the device is crap or not, real world audio should give a more meaningful picture.  But such samples are greatly affected by all sorts of stuff that happens before the audio gets to the recorder input.  With band performances for instance, the variables include the quality of the PA, the quality of the room, placement of the mics, the quality of the mics, and so on.

Yesterday I walked down to a local park where there is a lake and frogs calling on all sides, and birds and flowing water sounds - and a load of distant suburban traffic noise.  I decided not to bother with running a test there as those not knowing the location well would have had trouble isolating any possible system noise from the higher level suburban noises. 

Years ago I was using an Edirol R-44 to record a classical concert in a new concert hall. After the rehearsal the hall was empty and I left the machine running for a few moments (fed from my MKH MS pair).  Listening back later, I cranked up the volume and realised that I could hear some people talking outside the thick closed doors of the soundproofed hall.  That was a rare opportunity to record a tiny sound in a quiet place - but I can't recall another such opportunity in the last 15 years!  I've been trying to find any published spec of the R-44 mic preamps from the noise perspective and can't find one expressed in dBu to compare with others, but given the march of time I suspect its noise level would be not significantly better, or possibly worse, that the H1 XLR (OK, that's a guess but...).

Now about that video about the H1essential - to be honest I skimmed through listening to the samples but I don't think there was anything recorded in any kind of silent place.  What made me very, very puzzled at first was the moment at 14:08 where a lady drops the lid of a large bin - and the background noise immediately faded before gradually coming back.  What, compression?? Why?? And then I remembered Curtis Judd mentioning the YouTube "stable volume" feature which is I think on by default.  Turn that off, no compression!  A lesson learned.   As for the device, well, end results would probably be most determined by the quality of its built in mics, if used.  Probably not amazing.  Using it with external mics would be more likely to give good results, but then why buy a recorder with built in mics if you were not going to use them?  Instead - buy the H1 XLR...