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Gear / Technical Help => Cables => Topic started by: Jeremy Lykins on August 07, 2012, 10:10:38 AM
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Is there a standard "record out" on all soundboards? Specifically the little soundboards that are in small bars. I was going to record from the soundboard last night but I don't know anything about them and it was kind of an open mic thing, so there was no sound guy and the guy hosting it didn't know anything about soundboards either.
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http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=14253.0
All the places I get patches from are either XLR or TRS.
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Smaller boards typically have an RCA "stereo tape" out or a stereo 1/4" "main" or "master" out.
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No doubt you'll need approval and assistance of the FOH engineer. If there are a pair of unused Submix Groups, post fader Aux Outs, or Matrix Outs... use these as this will give you/FOH engineer some control on the output level. This requires the engineer to build you a separate mix, or just assign the correct channels to your outputs. The RCA tape outs on some consoles are noisy, as the circuit that converts +4 to -10dbu can be cheaply made and introduce noise. It's good practice to avoid RCA jacks altogether, but not if it's the only option available.
ALWAYS avoid monitor outs and headphone jacks, as these are not designed for recording and only pass signal from what the engineer chooses to monitor ("PFL") on his console.
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Ah, I think I missed the nature of the question. In that situation if there are RCA or 1/4 stereo outs, they're the safe bet. If its a place where you tape often and there's no engineer, it might be worth learning enough about the board to create your own matrix output.
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So it sounds like the short answer to my question would be "no." I was hoping that there was one standard term that all soundboards used to label their outputs, but I guess that I'll just have to learn as I go. This particular board was very small and was used as the house P.A. so the out that I needed may have already been in use (I should've taken a picture, but I didn't think of it until I got home). Luckily the show was a single mic Americana/traditional show, so I just taped my mics directly to the single mic's shock mount.
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Definitely no universal output on all consoles. Some of those outputs can be used up for certain shows with lots of monitor mixes, etc. Your best bet is to show up early and hope for an engineer that knows what he's doing :) There is nothing more frustrating (as an engineer) to build mixes for someone 5 minutes before the band hits the stage.
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So it sounds like the short answer to my question would be "no." I was hoping that there was one standard term that all soundboards used to label their outputs, but I guess that I'll just have to learn as I go. This particular board was very small and was used as the house P.A. so the out that I needed may have already been in use (I should've taken a picture, but I didn't think of it until I got home). Luckily the show was a single mic Americana/traditional show, so I just taped my mics directly to the single mic's shock mount.
No, but IME, "AUX", "MATRIX" and "REC OUT" are the most common. "MATRIX" and "REC OUT" seem to be the safest I personally have encountered.
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It seems these days - there are RCA outs...somewhere - on most consoles that tapers might commonly have access to.
Usually labelled something like Rec Out, Tape Out, or Line Out, and I have seen Matrix as well. (seems like the soundguys always tell us to avoid that one, I forget why)
I think these RCAs are generally the most reliable, albeit slightly less than optimal.(compared to balanced)
Even with RCA outs - You really need to use caution with bigger, more complex boards.
Once you have sub-groups in play, and the engineer bussing the signals around in various ways, you can really get screwed.
Beware this situation - get a board feed - in this case XLR L/R. House music is on, getting great levels on the recorder.
Band starts...NOTHING...no signal...and good luck getting a soundguy to make you his big worry in the first song of a show.
For a while, every time I saw a SoundCraft board - I knew I was about to be screwed.
So you need to learn to eye up the console, and quiz the sound guy quickly about the signal they are sending you.
Sometimes that can be the reminder to put you on the right sub out...or push the right switch/pan on the board.
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I can resist no longer...
Where do you plug in on a soundboard? In the back, where all the other stuff is plugged in.
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I can resist no longer...
Where do you plug in on a soundboard? In the back, where all the other stuff is plugged in.
Often true, but some consoles have RCA outs on the work surface, facing the soundman...
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I can resist no longer...
Where do you plug in on a soundboard? In the back, where all the other stuff is plugged in.
Often true, but some consoles have RCA outs on the work surface, facing the soundman...
Yeah, I know. But snark doesn't always need to be 100% accurate.
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It seems these days - there are RCA outs...somewhere - on most consoles that tapers might commonly have access to.
Usually labelled something like Rec Out, Tape Out, or Line Out, and I have seen Matrix as well. (seems like the soundguys always tell us to avoid that one, I forget why)
I think these RCAs are generally the most reliable, albeit slightly less than optimal.(compared to balanced)
Even with RCA outs - You really need to use caution with bigger, more complex boards.
Once you have sub-groups in play, and the engineer bussing the signals around in various ways, you can really get screwed.
Beware this situation - get a board feed - in this case XLR L/R. House music is on, getting great levels on the recorder.
Band starts...NOTHING...no signal...and good luck getting a soundguy to make you his big worry in the first song of a show.
For a while, every time I saw a SoundCraft board - I knew I was about to be screwed.
So you need to learn to eye up the console, and quiz the sound guy quickly about the signal they are sending you.
Sometimes that can be the reminder to put you on the right sub out...or push the right switch/pan on the board.
You most likely plugged into the Main L/R insert jacks. Which carries signal out, but also returns the signal back into the board. If there is nothing returning, then the audience will hear nothing. That's why it's very important to work with the engineer and hope he knows his stuff before attempting to patch. Also even if you find an empty matrix out, there is no signal fed to these jacks unless the engineers makes it happen.
Also it's VERY important to keep phantom power OFF on your record deck when using XLR feeds from the console. The club owner will not be happy when his martix section is fried on his $10k console.
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my adventures in the90's, bring an rca cord with 1/4" adaptors, the matrix out usually had low signal
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my adventures in the90's, bring an rca cord with 1/4" adaptors, the matrix out usually had low signal
...Only if the engineer doesn't turn it up. The matrix outs are variable output but I believe are usually left turned down unless they're in use (good policy in general). If you can't get a signal from them, just ask the engineer to turn up the volume on whatever matrix outs you're in.
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I can resist no longer...
Wherever the soundperson tells you to!
Though I know that's no help to the real question here.
Provocative title gets people to look though.
Most rinky dink soundboards have an RCA "tape out" on the work surface. if you don't know what you're doing and no one there does either aim for that (which may be all that is available on small systems). Of course getting your own submix is usually much better but rare unless the operator does that on a regular basis (and the majority of really rinky dink boards don't really offer that option).
I learned how to run sound showing up at those kind of shows where there's a board but no operator and someone playing was friends of mine. At least I knew what they were supposed to sound like... A couple of the best boards I have are ones I literally made myself.
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Very few outputs (besides tape/rec out) on the house console will have a useable signal unless the engineer feeds something to those physical jacks. Never assume that there's going to be signal there. Communication is key ;)
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I collected these cables, connectors, one of these are always good to me:
xlr (mono-mono)
rca (mono-mono)
1/4 jack (mono-mono)
1/4 jack stereo.
All I can do is to have the right cable, I would never find out where to plug and the soundmen wouldn't even allow to try it, I guess :)
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my adventures in the90's, bring an rca cord with 1/4" adaptors, the matrix out usually had low signal
...Only if the engineer doesn't turn it up. The matrix outs are variable output but I believe are usually left turned down unless they're in use (good policy in general). If you can't get a signal from them, just ask the engineer to turn up the volume on whatever matrix outs you're in.
Matrix out is simply a collection of every output on the board that can be discreetly mixed. It can be left and right or just aux outputs or just sub group outputs. Its what ever the sound engineer makes it. A caution about left and right is this.. Some sound engineers insert eq's into the left and right buss.. And if you use matrix chances are you will get the left and right house eq if its inserted. If its in line. Meaning house left right ----EQ-----system processor then you are fine.
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In general the best way to get an output from the board is to simply ask this question. Can I get an output from the console that has the best overall mix? And let him or her figure it out AND THANK YOU! is also a good idea. Also patting him or her on the back by telling them the live mix sounds really good will also insure he or her pays more attention to you. ;D
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In general the best way to get an output from the board is to simply ask this question. Can I get an output from the console that has the best overall mix? And let him or her figure it out AND THANK YOU! is also a good idea. Also patting him or her on the back by telling them the live mix sounds really good will also insure he or her pays more attention to you. ;D
Im detecting some bias here... ;)
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In general the best way to get an output from the board is to simply ask this question. Can I get an output from the console that has the best overall mix? And let him or her figure it out AND THANK YOU! is also a good idea. Also patting him or her on the back by telling them the live mix sounds really good will also insure he or her pays more attention to you. ;D
Im detecting some bias here... ;)
In Canada I rarely ever get someone asking for a board feed ( Unless its a media feed ) When I was mixing a major Canadian artist, I gave a board feed to a local news broadcaster. The band manager said 20 seconds of audio then kill the feed and he was right beside me making sure that is what happened. Taping in Canada is not very popular and most Canadian artists do not allow it or simply don't understand the culture of it. And that the real community is not into selling the recordings they make, and that this can actually help promote a band. But again times are changing.
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Taping in Canada is not very popular and most Canadian artists do not allow it or simply don't understand the culture of it.
Maybe you should get out of your basement once in awhile. ???
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Quick question. On most boards what is the XLR output. Male or female?
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Quick question. On most boards what is the XLR output. Male or female?
Male out (just like a microphone).
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Quick question. On most boards what is the XLR output. Male or female?
Male out (just like a microphone).
Thanks Ted!
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At the vibes its a left and right patch boxes with female male outs. So you use a female xlr
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I can resist no longer...
Where do you plug in on a soundboard? In the back, where all the other stuff is plugged in.
Often true, but some consoles have RCA outs on the work surface, facing the soundman...
Thats how my local bands SBD is. The RCA OUTS are on the top of the console facing the soundguy! I need some cables from Darktrain so that I can patch out of ANY SBD>M10. I know the M10 isnt the most ideal SBD recorder, but it gets the job done, and surprisingly enough, the M10s preamps are pretty damn good for a $250 recorder. I need Darktrain to make me ALL SORTS of cables so that I can patch out of virtually ANY SBD :) I can DEF afford it this fall :) And the M10 is SUPER SIMPLE to use when patching a SBD. Just mess with the gain knob til youre happy with the levels, just like youre using an external preamp instead of the preamps of the M10!
I was planning on getting a Tascam Dr680, just for SBDs mainly, but I dont get nearly enough SBD patches throughout the year to justify the expense of the DR680. I will just buy a 3rd M10 to take care of teh SBD patches :)
I REALLY wish I went to school for recording :( I would LOVE to learn how to do the live side of recording. Like running SBDs and multitracks, so that they can be recorded. Thats like my DREAM job 8)
So AJ, what youre saying is: Avoid the MATRIX OUTS ??? I have typically used the TAPE OUT/LINE OUT/etc on most of the SBDs Ive patched from. Like I said, I wished I patched out of SBDs enough to justify getting a DR680, but I just dont. I would say the last 15 years of taping[been taping for 20 years], I have patched out of a SBD like 15-20 times MAX.
Anyway, sorry for the rambling............
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I'm with Bean on this one. I've been tempted to pick up a 680 or R-44 (or even an R-26) but the number of times I end up getting a board feed are few and far between. I was looking at a Tascam DR-2D just because it would give me locked clocks between the two input points and will likely just do that for the times when I need to run two different mics or a board feed and mics.
Bean, I asked a similar question about board feeds and somebody gave me a list of all of the "parts" one would need. It's about $35 + shipping from B&H and this would give you all of the XLR, 1/4" and RCA options you'd need to get from the board to 1/8" IN on your M10.
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So AJ, what youre saying is: Avoid the MATRIX OUTS ??? I have typically used the TAPE OUT/LINE OUT/etc on most of the SBDs Ive patched from. Like I said, I wished I patched out of SBDs enough to justify getting a DR680, but I just dont. I would say the last 15 years of taping[been taping for 20 years], I have patched out of a SBD like 15-20 times MAX.
Again, just talk to the engineer and he will get you squared away. Bring all sorts of adapters to be prepared for any style of connector. Very few outputs on consoles have any signal going to them unless the engineer turns the correct knobs.
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I need some cables from Darktrain so that I can patch out of ANY SBD>M10.
I have these items and have not encountered a board I couldn't patch into:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/408119-REG/Hosa_Technology_GPR_101_GPR101_Male_Phone_to.html
x2: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/408137-REG/Hosa_Technology_GXF_132_GXF132_RCA_to_XLR.html
x2: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/408138-REG/Hosa_Technology_GXM_133_GXM133_RCA_to_3_Pin.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/909159-REG/comprehensive_mps_2pp_6st_3_5mm_stereo_mini_plug.html
This is compact for me and allows me to carry one 1/8" to RCA male cable to make it all work. Around $20 before shipping.
The XLR male adapter is the least used, but I'm glad I had it recently at Hopscotch Festival. The first night's venue gave me a pigtail with XLR female to connect to.
Another tip: Check your levels during soundcheck if possible and again when the band is playing. If you set levels with the house music playing, you are unlikely to get a good read on what the show levels will be like. Also, you may not get anything when the house music is on, depending on how the engineer has your output configured.
And I always ask before I plug in even if I've taped somewhere 50 times before.