Author Topic: Sonic Studios vs. DPA 4060/61? (Read 13417 times)

§†∑∫åµÞ≥¥ · « **on:** August 25, 2003, 06:48:24 PM »

Anyone done a comparison? I'm looking to upgrade my stealth mics. Thanks.

Chapper · « **Reply #1 on:** August 25, 2003, 07:04:55 PM »

I haven't ever done a direct comparison, or used either mic myself. But from many stealth tapes I've heard, I'd go for the 4061's over the Sonics in a heartbeat. You get a nice full sound from the 4061's, the Sonics sound like a stealth mic to me. Bo good to have some way to roll off some bass with the 4061's as they can be a bit bass heavy.

§†∑∫åµÞ≥¥ · « **Reply #2 on:** August 25, 2003, 07:33:58 PM »

Pretty sure the HEB's (high end binaurals with the DPA 4060 capsules) from Core Sound include a bass roll-off/battery box. I think they retail around $900. Can anyone verify?

zhianosatch · « **Reply #3 on:** August 25, 2003, 09:31:34 PM »

No comparison. At all. DPA 406x series wins.

nickgregory · « **Reply #4 on:** August 25, 2003, 10:28:25 PM »

DPA 4060 or 4061 in all cases in that price range for stealthing....make very good tapes given the right position (as with all mics)...the sonic mics I have heard some good tapes, but never great...4061 tapes...there are alot of really great ones out there....

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #5 on:** August 26, 2003, 04:38:50 AM »

Quote from: Chapper on August 25, 2003, 07:04:55 PM

I haven't ever done a direct comparison, or used either mic myself. But from many stealth tapes I've heard, I'd go for the 4061's over the Sonics in a heartbeat. You get a nice full sound from the 4061's, the Sonics sound like a stealth mic to me. Bo good to have some way to roll off some bass with the 4061's as they can be a bit bass heavy.

word about the bass. armen, any word on the BB mod for roll-off?

i have one tape Sonic studios recording that would be "great" if it wasn't run into an analog tape

§†∑∫åµÞ≥¥ · « **Reply #6 on:** August 26, 2003, 10:34:43 AM »

Don't the 4060/61 mics need to be run in a straight-out-from-the-ears (Healy technique) position though since they're considered "binaural"? Is it going to depend on how close I am to the stage or stacks? Will they work to stealth from a theater balcony? Thanks.

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #7 on:** August 26, 2003, 10:38:25 AM »

Quote from: stejampzy on August 26, 2003, 10:34:43 AM

Don't the 4060/61 mics need to be run in a straight-out-from-the-ears (Healy technique) position though since they're considered "binaural"? Is it going to depend on how close I am to the stage or stacks? Will they work to stealth from a theater balcony? Thanks.

Beat you to it, Mike! There's no such thing as binaural mics. The mics in question are omnidirectional mics. Binaural is a recording technique which utilizes omni mics like the DPA 4061 or other omni mics.

You can run omnis binaural, spaced omni, Jecklin disc, any config that you can think up for omni mics.

zhianosatch · « **Reply #8 on:** August 26, 2003, 10:40:42 AM »

Quote from: stejampzy on August 26, 2003, 10:34:43 AM

Don't the 4060/61 mics need to be run in a straight-out-from-the-ears (Healy technique) position though since they're considered "binaural"?

NO!
What Brian said.

Quote from: stejampzy on August 26, 2003, 10:34:43 AM

Is it going to depend on how close I am to the stage or stacks? Will they work to stealth from a theater balcony? Thanks.

Ummm... your recording technique depends on a lot of things, including those you mention.

zhianosatch · « **Reply #9 on:** August 26, 2003, 10:43:19 AM »

Quote from: Stealth Master Schwilly on August 26, 2003, 04:38:50 AM

Quote from: Chapper on August 25, 2003, 07:04:55 PM
I haven't ever done a direct comparison, or used either mic myself. But from many stealth tapes I've heard, I'd go for the 4061's over the Sonics in a heartbeat. You get a nice full sound from the 4061's, the Sonics sound like a stealth mic to me. Bo good to have some way to roll off some bass with the 4061's as they can be a bit bass heavy.

word about the bass. armen, any word on the BB mod for roll-off?

Thing with the bass is, the 406xs capture all the bass at a show with no problem, where Sonic Studios and many other mics will fail because of it.
This also means that you have to watch what you run the 406xs into:
An AD-20, for example, or a recorder mic pre? Brickwall city.
Line input? It's all butter.

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #10 on:** August 26, 2003, 10:46:31 AM »

Mannnnn...all this talk about the DPA 406x has me wanting to get a pair now! Must...resist...urge to buy...more...gear...

zhianosatch · « **Reply #11 on:** August 26, 2003, 11:46:16 AM »

Do it, Brian.
It's allllll butter...

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #12 on:** August 26, 2003, 04:33:55 PM »

hehe, but mommy promised me binaural mics for my birthday.

zhianosatch · « **Reply #13 on:** August 26, 2003, 04:34:42 PM »

NO MICS FOR YOU

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #14 on:** August 26, 2003, 04:41:28 PM »

can't have what ain't real

another reason to hate CSB

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #15 on:** August 26, 2003, 04:42:18 PM »

Quote from: zhianosatch on August 26, 2003, 11:46:16 AM

Do it, Brian.
It's allllll butter...

Sooooo...where's the best place to buy these + power source new? (not interested in Core Sound)

Any other ideas on finding used other than EBay, here, Oade, and DATHeads?

I assume the 4061s are the way to go b/c they're not as sensitive as the 4060?

Is there any difference between the MPS 6010/20/30 other than the output connector? Probably leaning towards RCA as XLRs are bulkier.

Must...resist...

zhianosatch · « **Reply #16 on:** August 26, 2003, 05:46:10 PM »

Quote from: Brian Skalinder on August 26, 2003, 04:42:18 PM

Sooooo...where's the best place to buy these + power source new? (not interested in Core Sound)

Haha, I just wrote all of this in an email to "tapper" yesterday...
I bought my set brand new from Marc Nutter and Friends. $625 for the mics, $125 for the MPS. Yep. Great experience.
I wasn't interested in Core Sound. I'll tell you why privately sometime.

Quote

Any other ideas on finding used other than EBay, here, Oade, and DATHeads?

None... you're the second guy I know who's lookin' for some!

Quote

I assume the 4061s are the way to go b/c they're not as sensitive as the 4060?

Right. I was told that they behave more like typical condensers... plus, why get the 4062s? You're not gonna tape a goddamned space launch... not that one of those would happen anytime soon... so double the reason!

Quote

Is there any difference between the MPS 6010/20/30 other than the output connector? Probably leaning towards RCA as XLRs are bulkier.

Yes. The 6010 can pass 48v phantom to the mics. It's what I use.
You have to watch out for the 406x cables. They're very, very tiny. I screw in the microdot connectors, then click in the XLRs. Man, those XLR cables are HUGE compared to the mics'!

Quote

Must...resist...

You know you want to join... we like you... so do the mics...

Armen

Joe w. · « **Reply #17 on:** August 26, 2003, 08:29:00 PM »

Quote

Is it going to depend on how close I am to the stage or stacks? Will they work to stealth from a theater balcony? Thanks.

They will sound like ass unless you are close to the sound source. Also, if you are in the top of a balcony or against a wall, you will get the reverberent sounds bouncing off of everything.

the HEB's do come with a a battery box option for rolloff, but it only works when going mic in, and i don't recommend going mic in since those are a hot mic.

Quote

Any other ideas on finding used other than EBay, here, Oade, and DATHeads?

Brian, there is a yahoogroup called teamDPA.....Try there.

FWIW, I do not recommend the battery box option. the 1/8 out of the batt box blows...., it's metal, heavy and will bash your balls when you crotch it, plus you don't wanna get wanded with that thing in there.

The best bet IMO is to go DPA 4061 > DPA xlr phantom (forget what they're called) > mod-sbm-1 > line in Dat. Don't crank the sbm all the way up and dont go below 4.

dank · « **Reply #18 on:** August 27, 2003, 10:25:09 AM »

How would the rolloff not work going mic-in? The battery box doesnt know what its output is being plugged into.

zhianosatch · « **Reply #19 on:** August 27, 2003, 10:36:45 AM »

Quote from: dank on August 27, 2003, 10:25:09 AM

How would the rolloff not work going mic-in?

With HEBs, the roll-off ONLY works going mic in.

Quote from: dank on August 27, 2003, 10:25:09 AM

The battery box doesnt know what its output is being plugged into.

Exactly. So Len makes them for Sony portables' MIC IN. Anything else you plug your HEBs into won't roll the bass at 6dB/octave at 120 Hz.
One of many reasons...

Armen

VA_TAPER · « **Reply #20 on:** August 27, 2003, 11:44:59 AM »

Quote from: dank on August 27, 2003, 10:25:09 AM

How would the rolloff not work going mic-in? The battery box doesnt know what its output is being plugged into.

Technical answer:

When you use capacitors to filter bass, the frequency rolloff is based upon the capacitor value AND the resistance (ohms) of the network. The mic and line input have VERY different resistance levels and this causes the rolloff not to work via line input as the resistance is much higher.

peace, chris

zhianosatch · « **Reply #21 on:** August 27, 2003, 11:52:02 AM »

Quote from: VA_TAPER on August 27, 2003, 11:44:59 AM

Quote from: dank on August 27, 2003, 10:25:09 AM
How would the rolloff not work going mic-in? The battery box doesnt know what its output is being plugged into.

Technical answer:

When you use capacitors to filter bass, the frequency rolloff is based upon the capacitor value AND the resistance (ohms) of the network. The mic and line input have VERY different resistance levels and this causes the rolloff not to work via line input as the resistance is much higher.

peace, chris

Sony line inputs are approx. 47K ohms, mic inputs 10K...

zhianosatch · « **Reply #22 on:** August 27, 2003, 12:01:10 PM »

... in fact, I'm working this out with Jon at JK Labs right now. Too much damn impedance talk!
Once he gets back from vacation, the plan is to modify my MPS-6010 to accomodate a high pass filter with a steepness of 6 dB per octave with the knee frequency at 85 Hz. The filter for the XLR outs of the box will be designed for 10K ohms impedance (currently, my AD-20, and many other mic inputs) and that for an 1/8" out being added to the MPS wil be designed for Sony line inputs (whose resistance varies from 47K ohms to approx. 58K ohms), particularly, the SBM-1, at 60K ohms.
I can't wait!
A

zhianosatch · « **Reply #23 on:** August 27, 2003, 12:08:35 PM »

aaaaaaaa, I know... I slack at work when I can get online!

BC · « **Reply #24 on:** August 27, 2003, 02:07:32 PM »

I think the 4060's will do fine in virtually all concert situations, 134dB SPL capability before clipping, I don't think you will ever hear a show that loud. I personally would get these not the 4061's.

Take care,
Ben

imjustchillin · « **Reply #25 on:** August 31, 2003, 10:00:38 PM »

i picked up some sonic studio's w/ bat box used a couple years ago and have been very pleased with the results in both stealth and (nerf'd) applications. i haven't come across anyone using the dpa's at the same show yet, but i'd be eager the improvement.

dank · « **Reply #26 on:** September 01, 2003, 11:40:17 AM »

ok that makes sense. thanks for the detailed answer. I actually pulled a pretty good distant 4061 tape last night.... Elton JOhn was the unannounced surprise guest last night at the Harley 100th Anniversary Party and I was close to 100 yards away. What a let down though..... Harley fans wanted to rock!

§†∑∫åµÞ≥¥ · « **Reply #27 on:** September 01, 2003, 05:02:49 PM »

I thought Dickey Betts was supposed to be there?

dank · « **Reply #28 on:** September 01, 2003, 05:20:46 PM »

he played one of the smaller announced events. this party, nobody knew who was playing til it happened.

Cooker · « **Reply #29 on:** September 09, 2003, 09:48:35 AM »

Quote from: dank on September 01, 2003, 11:40:17 AM

Elton JOhn was the unannounced surprise guest last night at the Harley 100th Anniversary Party

This is funny on so many levels. Was he wearing a feather boa?

murph · « **Reply #30 on:** September 10, 2003, 11:27:39 AM »

Quote from: Brian Skalinder on August 26, 2003, 10:38:25 AM

Quote from: stejampzy on August 26, 2003, 10:34:43 AM
Don't the 4060/61 mics need to be run in a straight-out-from-the-ears (Healy technique) position though since they're considered "binaural"? Is it going to depend on how close I am to the stage or stacks? Will they work to stealth from a theater balcony? Thanks.

Beat you to it, Mike! There's no such thing as binaural mics. The mics in question are omnidirectional mics. Binaural is a recording technique which utilizes omni mics like the DPA 4061 or other omni mics.

You can run omnis binaural, spaced omni, Jecklin disc, any config that you can think up for omni mics.

what guys,
Actually there is a binaural mic. It is made by Neumann.. The model is the KU 100 dummy head. here is a link
http://shop.synthplanet.com/product.lasso?pr=17401&stid=synthplanet&-Session=shop:D5C8091FD1772C0F52F39CE1F54588CC&from=
Umphrey's McGee runs it in there matrix's when they don't run the Schoeps.
Later
Murph

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #31 on:** September 10, 2003, 11:55:30 PM »

Quote from: murph420 on September 10, 2003, 11:27:39 AM

Actually there is a binaural mic. It is made by Neumann.. The model is the KU 100 dummy head.

Unless I'm missing something (nothing new!) about the KU100 - this is still just omni mics utilizing a binaural technique. Instead of a real head, it's a dummy head.

zhianosatch · « **Reply #32 on:** September 11, 2003, 12:11:16 AM »

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #33 on:** September 11, 2003, 04:11:48 AM »

Go team Binaural mics!