Topic: Zoom H4 + mics ect...

[Nielsen81]

Hi guys.
I'm new inhere and need some help. Well, I've been thinking about buying myself a Zoom H4 recorder, but technically I'm complete lost.
So here's my questions:

1. Which mics should I buy? I have heard, that Church mics should be really good? Omni or unidirectional?

2. Battery box or not? I've heard about some Phantom power, but what about the battery source for that (which is external, right).

I was recommended a pair of these ( http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-8 ), but there are so many options below (windscreen option, cable option ect), that I got confused

Well, thanks in advance.

Glenn from Denmark

p.s If you think I forgot something, don't hesitate reminding me about it

[acidjack]

Hi guys.
I'm new inhere and need some help. Well, I've been thinking about buying myself a Zoom H4 recorder, but technically I'm complete lost.
So here's my questions:

1. Which mics should I buy? I have heard, that Church mics should be really good? Omni or unidirectional?

2. Battery box or not? I've heard about some Phantom power, but what about the battery source for that (which is external, right).

I was recommended a pair of these, but there are so many options below (windscreen option, cable option ect), that I got confused

Well, thanks in advance.

Glenn from Denmark

p.s If you think I forgot something, don't hesitate reminding me about it

What application/what type of venues are you recording in?  Also, what is your budget?  Really, you should answer these questions first, as that will dramatically effect what type of mic you should buy.

Also, is there any particular reason you're focused on the H4?  I have not used one personally, but there may be other machines that do as good or better job or are less expensive (I've only used the Edirol R-09HR, so everything else I know about these is just what I've read).  You might ask other Zoom H4 users about its advantages/disadvantages before settling on that particular unit.

If you're recording amplified rock music, you should definitely acquire mics with a "battery box" or an external preamp - the power supplied by most small recorders is not sufficient for recording loud rock music.

You mentioned the Church mics, which suggests to me that you're looking for small, unobtrusive mics that can be worn on a user's person.  In their price range, Church CA-14 are great mics.  Sound Professionals CMC-4 (bigger) and CMC-8 (a little smaller) are both also very good.  Both of these as well as other manufacturers make small mics for less, though personally I find the above-mentioned models to be in the "sweet spot" in terms of price/quality, and they are very common among tapers.  The Sound Professionals models offer the advantage of switchable capsules that you screw on, which means you can get both an omni and a cardiod (and a hypercardiod and a subcardiod) mic in one.  Church also makes omni mics and his pricing is so competitive you may be able to get 2 separate sets of his mics for the same price as SP mics with switchable caps. 

If you are not concerned about the size of the mics, then there are many, many options to choose from - you'd need to narrow down by price among other factors.

As to cardiod vs. omni, again, it depends upon the application, but generally, omnis work best very close to the sound source.  They also pick up more crowd noise and other sounds away from the sound source (just like your ears do) than a cardiod mic, which is more directional.  Speaking in broad generalities, cardiod is probably the most common pickup pattern used by most tapers of rock music these days, but many of us use different mics for different applications. 

[Nielsen81]

Well, it is different venues, I'm gonna record in. Which would be smaller venues for 3-4.000 people, and then there's the outdoor shows with 15.000-50.000 people.
I prefer not to be to close to the stage.

The Zoom H4 looks nice and easy to use, for a guy like me. And other than that, I was told it was a good recorder, so thats why I'm planning to buy that one:)

The kind of music I would record, is Metallica, Foo Fighters and that kind of music, so I'm gonna need a battery box for sure.

The size of the mics, should be just so I can clip them onto my shirt, just under my chin or by the neck. After what you told, I think good mics for me, would be cardiod mic, since I will stand further away from the stage, as I wrote earlier

My budget, besides the recorder, would be around 300 $. I can probably find more than 300 $... Think I can get some nice mics and battery box for that amount?

In another thread in this forum, some guy doesn't recommend the Zoom H4, but instead a Edirol R-09HR, which also seems to be cheaper. And thats the one you use, so that might be a good start, if you are to recommend me different things to start of with

[jbell]

I would go with the Ediorl r09hr and CA-14 mics!  Is a little out of your budget, but well worth the extra cost!

[jbell]

Actually read the thread and it looks like it fits your budget!  I would also spring for the CA ST9100 preamp instead of a battery box. 

[Belexes]

He's taping very loud music. CA-9100 would be overkill.

For the entry-level taper who appears to want to stxxlth loud music, I recommend:

- R-09HR ($305 at Buy.com last I looked, but Soundpros will match their price, so get it from them)
- CA-11 (omni and card caps) or spend a little more and get the CA-14 card and CA-14 omni
- CA battery box

The CA battery box doesn't have bass roll off, but adjustments with bass can be done in post with programs like Audacity.

I use to own SP-CMC-8's (AT943). Good mics, but for me, I think they do not have enough bass response. I always had to EQ my recordings in post with them.  I like and still own the SP-CMC-4's (AT853).  I did a side-by-side comparison with them and the CA-14's and they are close to one another according to my ears.  The AT mics are nice if I want to switch caps on the fly and also offer hyper and subcard capsules.

[Nielsen81]

He's taping very loud music. CA-9100 would be overkill.

For the entry-level taper who appears to want to stxxlth loud music, I recommend:

- R-09HR ($305 at Buy.com last I looked, but Soundpros will match their price, so get it from them)
- CA-11 (omni and card caps) or spend a little more and get the CA-14 card and CA-14 omni
- CA battery box

The CA battery box doesn't have bass roll off, but adjustments with bass can be done in post with programs like Audacity.

I use to own SP-CMC-8's (AT943). Good mics, but for me, I think they do not have enough bass response. I always had to EQ my recordings in post with them.  I like and still own the SP-CMC-4's (AT853).  I did a side-by-side comparison with them and the CA-14's and they are close to one another according to my ears.  The AT mics are nice if I want to switch caps on the fly and also offer hyper and subcard capsules.

I just saw the R-09HR for 298 $ at Amazon.com (could anyone recommend Amazon or is it a no go?). It's way cheaper than expected, since I would have had to pay 435 $, if I should buy it in Denmark, so I got more money for mics;)
CA-14 are Church audios, right? Should I always bring both card and omni to a concert, so I could decide which to use, when I found my spot on the floor?
About the battery box. I would prefer bass-roll off, but how difficult is it to adjust the bass in fx Audacity and is the result as good as if I had bass roll-off?

[Belexes]

Any price around $300 for the R-09HR is good. (new)

CA-14 are Church Audio as are the CA-11 series.  Card vs omni is all about taste.  Omni's pick up everything around you, including chatter and if you are in a terrible sounding room that as well.  Cardioids are directional and better at filtering out chatter and poor acoustics.  Myself, I tend to favor cardioids indoors and under an amphitheater roof, omnis at open air concerts.  If $'s are limited, I'd favor cards first, then omnis.

Post production of audio with a program like Audacity is very simple.  BB's w/roll-off were all the rage prior to good/cheap/free computer audio editors.  It's all a matter of preference.

[Nielsen81]

Well, then I'll try without the bass roll-off. Otherwise, I can always buy a BB with bass roll-off later:)

Those Church mics should I be able to get from the guy himself inhere or should I just go for Ebay?

[fmaderjr]

No E-Bay for Church products.
Cost is much less if you buy from Chris directly.
His products are a great deal for the money, especially if not bought on E-Bay.

[Nielsen81]

Thanks

I'll mail him and ask

And thanks to all you other guys helping me. Seems like I know what to buy now

[sunjan]

I just saw the R-09HR for 298 $ at Amazon.com (could anyone recommend Amazon or is it a no go?). It's way cheaper than expected, since I would have had to pay 435 $, if I should buy it in Denmark, so I got more money for mics;)

Hey, don't forget to calculate for import duty being slapped on top of that, since you're in the EU.
Taking it from a fellow Swede, who once bought a camera from the US for $300 and paid $200 in various custom fees on top of that

Unless you have a friend travelling to/from the US, be very meticulous when ordering from overseas.
Make it very clear to the seller that the item must be marked as "gift", and ask him to send the invoice in a separate letter (since the customs would see in when they open your parcel for inspection).

If the seller won't comply, move on to the next one!
I'd rather pay $10 or $20 more to a "flexible" seller, rather than rock bottom price and risk being slapped with $200 in taxes.

Re: Amazon, it's pretty much like Ebay. Go with the reputation of the individual seller. Many retailers are even present on both sites...

[Nielsen81]

Thank you very much. I've been thinking about the import duty:)
Well, maybe I can ask the seller (which will be CA) if he can send the invoice via e-mail. That should be possible, right?