Topic: HD-P2 and UA5 Time code sync up?

[barrettphisher]

So I was thinking of grabbing a Microtrack 2 to pair with my UA5 for board patches.  I was thinking of splitting the coax signal and time code syncing it with the P2.  Anyone tried this with success?  Hope it works. 
Barrett

[yug du nord]

Yep...  works great... that's probably my favorite feature of the HDP2.  Obviously, you could run 4channel mics with that rig too.  Me and a friend (who has a UA-5) ran 6channels sync'd up the other day.  The clock originated from the UA-5 and passed coax (clock) to the ACMHDP2, which passed coax (clock) to the HDP2.  Which equals 6channels.  Pretty cool.

mics>UA-5>MT
+
mics>ACMHDP2
+
mics>pre>HDP2

[barrettphisher]

Simple question I think I know the answer, do you need to keep everything at the same sampling rate?  I'm pretty sure you do.  Thanks!
Barrett

[yug du nord]

I always have....  but I would imagine that whatever the clock source is, is what the sample rate will be.

[page]

I always have....  but I would imagine that whatever the clock source is, is what the sample rate will be.

If it's 48k on the source/master, it's 48k on the slave unless the recorder doesn't handle that in which case I don't think it will sync onto the signal. You may need to set that accordingly before hooking stuff up and feeding signals (ymmv based on recorder), but you can't sync stuff at different rates.

[ghellquist]

Just to be picky - word clock and time code is not the same thing.

Word clock is used to take samples at the exact same time, and especially important at exactly the same frequency. The reason for it to be is that no two machines will have exactly the same frequency.

Time code is used to time stamp the beginning of each file, unless you record the time code on its own channel (nowadays rarely done in the digital world, always done on tape machines).

// gunnar

[yug du nord]

Pretty sure we're talking word clock here......  but can you give an example of how/why to use the time code?  I've never used the time code before. 

I run two HDP2's, and sync up the clocks...   then line up the two files in post, and mix 4channels down to 2channels.  Easy enough.  But, if I stamped each channel/deck with the time code, would that make things even easier in post?  I know time code is used for video, but don't know much more than that.  Thanks.

[barrettphisher]

So I re-read the manual, word clock is what we are looking for.  Time code looks to be more for video production.  So do I set my P2 as the master or the external source?  Looks like I should disable the internal setting.  How long does it take to lock in on the word clock?  It says in the manual to start things at the same time to avoid drift.  Thanks again,
Barrett

[JasonSobel]

in the HD-P2 settings, you have three choices "clock source":
Internal, Word Clock, or S/PDIF

In this case, because you want to sync the HD-P2 to a UA-5 > MT II combo, and the UA-5 doesn't have word clock inputs or outputs, what you will want to do is use the UA-5 S/PDIF signal as the clock source (but not the audio source).

So the overal gear chain will be:
mics/sbd/whatever > UA-5 > MT II
and
mics/sbd/whatever > HD-P2

you have the S/PDIF going from the UA-5 into the S/PDIF input on the HD-P2, and choose S/PDIF as the clock source.  then choose the analog inputs as the audio source, so that the deck will only use the S/PDIF as the clock, not for the audio.

in regards to starting the two decks at the same time, it doesn't really matter.  Because the two sources will have the same clock, there will be no drift in the two recordings over time.  You'll have to sync up the two recordings in post, but you'll only have to do it once at the start of each set, as there will be no drift between the two recordings.

[yug du nord]

in the HD-P2 settings, you have three choices "clock source":
Internal, Word Clock, or S/PDIF

In this case, because you want to sync the HD-P2 to a UA-5 > MT II combo, and the UA-5 doesn't have word clock inputs or outputs, what you will want to do is use the UA-5 S/PDIF signal as the clock source (but not the audio source).

So the overal gear chain will be:
mics/sbd/whatever > UA-5 > MT II
and
mics/sbd/whatever > HD-P2

you have the S/PDIF going from the UA-5 into the S/PDIF input on the HD-P2, and choose S/PDIF as the clock source.  then choose the analog inputs as the audio source, so that the deck will only use the S/PDIF as the clock, not for the audio.

in regards to starting the two decks at the same time, it doesn't really matter.  Because the two sources will have the same clock, there will be no drift in the two recordings over time.  You'll have to sync up the two recordings in post, but you'll only have to do it once at the start of each set, as there will be no drift between the two recordings.

QFT.

Nicely described Jason!


edit to add:  the word clocks locks in instantly.

[barrettphisher]

in the HD-P2 settings, you have three choices "clock source":
Internal, Word Clock, or S/PDIF

In this case, because you want to sync the HD-P2 to a UA-5 > MT II combo, and the UA-5 doesn't have word clock inputs or outputs, what you will want to do is use the UA-5 S/PDIF signal as the clock source (but not the audio source).

So the overal gear chain will be:
mics/sbd/whatever > UA-5 > MT II
and
mics/sbd/whatever > HD-P2

you have the S/PDIF going from the UA-5 into the S/PDIF input on the HD-P2, and choose S/PDIF as the clock source.  then choose the analog inputs as the audio source, so that the deck will only use the S/PDIF as the clock, not for the audio.

in regards to starting the two decks at the same time, it doesn't really matter.  Because the two sources will have the same clock, there will be no drift in the two recordings over time.  You'll have to sync up the two recordings in post, but you'll only have to do it once at the start of each set, as there will be no drift between the two recordings.

Awesome!  Thanks.  It appears the times I have tried this before I had it backwards, no wonder it didn't work.  Thinking that I might dump the UA5 get the MT2 and just get the spdif off the V3.  Can't wait to try this out!  By the way, another super cool feature of the HD-P2!! 
Barrett

[yug du nord]

Yep you could and should do that.  You'd either need use a coax splitter or "T" so you could send the digital coax signal to both the MT II and the P2 (for clock).  Or send an analog signal from the V3>recorder since you'll be using the coax to send the clock to your P2.  Sweet 4channels in your future man...  excellent!!!


edit to add:  scratched out an incorrect statement.

[JasonSobel]

Yep you could and should do that.  You'd either need use a coax splitter or "T" so you could send the digital coax signal to both the MT II and the P2 (for clock).  Or send an analog signal from the V3>recorder since you'll be using the coax to send the clock to your P2.  Sweet 4channels in your future man...  excellent!!!

the bold part there is wrong.  if you send V3 (analog out) > MT II and V3 digital out to the HD-P2 for clock source only, then the MT II is running on it's own digital clock and won't be in sync.

With a V3, it's easy, because you have at least 2 digital outs.
Run V3 > coax S/PDIF > MT II for the first source, and run V3 > AES to coax cable > S/PDIF on the HD-P2 for the clock source (of course with the analog input chosen on the HD-P2 so the audio from the S/PDIF isn't recorded on the HD-P2).  or do the reverse and have the V3 coax S/PDIF go to the HD-P2 for the clock, and use the AES output to the MT II to record the V3 signal.  it doesn't really matter.

With the UA-5, I'm not familiar with it enough to know if you have two digital outs on the unit.  If not, you'll need a S/PDIF splitter of some sort to go to both the MT II to record the audio coming from the V3, and to the HD-P2 for the clock source.

When I had a V3 and an HD-P2, I used to sync up with my friend's second HD-P2 all the time to do aud + sbd 4 channel recording.

edit to add:
there's some good discussion starting here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=87719.msg1440854#msg1440854
(I say starting with that post, because the discussion goes on for many posts)

[page]

Yep you could and should do that.  You'd either need use a coax splitter or "T" so you could send the digital coax signal to both the MT II and the P2 (for clock).  Or send an analog signal from the V3>recorder since you'll be using the coax to send the clock to your P2.  Sweet 4channels in your future man...  excellent!!!

the bold part there is wrong.  if you send V3 (analog out) > MT II and V3 digital out to the HD-P2 for clock source only, then the MT II is running on it's own digital clock and won't be in sync.

With a V3, it's easy, because you have at least 2 digital outs.
Run V3 > coax S/PDIF > MT II for the first source, and run V3 > AES to coax cable > S/PDIF on the HD-P2 for the clock source (of course with the analog input chosen on the HD-P2 so the audio from the S/PDIF isn't recorded on the HD-P2).  or do the reverse and have the V3 coax S/PDIF go to the HD-P2 for the clock, and use the AES output to the MT II to record the V3 signal.  it doesn't really matter.

With the UA-5, I'm not familiar with it enough to know if you have two digital outs on the unit.  If not, you'll need a S/PDIF splitter of some sort to go to both the MT II to record the audio coming from the V3, and to the HD-P2 for the clock source.

When I had a V3 and an HD-P2, I used to sync up with my friend's second HD-P2 all the time to do aud + sbd 4 channel recording.

edit to add:
there's some good discussion starting here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=87719.msg1440854#msg1440854
(I say starting with that post, because the discussion goes on for many posts)

Most V3s have a WC out on them (unless they are opti-moded).

So technically you can do 6ch with the V3 as your master. (AES>coax cable, coax out, and V3 WC out)

If the P2 has bit-clock perfect coax-out, then you might be able to milk another 2 channels and diasy-chain another recorder off of it (or split the signal at the V3 off of the AES out).

[yug du nord]

Yep you could and should do that.  You'd either need use a coax splitter or "T" so you could send the digital coax signal to both the MT II and the P2 (for clock).  Or send an analog signal from the V3>recorder since you'll be using the coax to send the clock to your P2.  Sweet 4channels in your future man...  excellent!!!


edit to add:  scratched out an incorrect statement.

^^^Good call...  thanks for the correction!  I was thinkin too fast for my own good.  I corrected my post above with an edit.

With the UA-5, it has both a digital coax and an optical output.  So either you'd need a coax splitter box or "T", or a 24bit optical>coax converter box...  unless you use a recorder with an optical input.

[yug du nord]

Most V3s have a WC out on them (unless they are opti-moded).

So technically you can do 6ch with the V3 as your master. (AES>coax cable, coax out, and V3 WC out)

If the P2 has bit-clock perfect coax-out, then you might be able to milk another 2 channels and diasy-chain another recorder off of it (or split the signal at the V3 off of the AES out).

Would you use a BNC cable for that?

Yes you can daisy chain P2's.

[page]

Most V3s have a WC out on them (unless they are opti-moded).

So technically you can do 6ch with the V3 as your master. (AES>coax cable, coax out, and V3 WC out)

If the P2 has bit-clock perfect coax-out, then you might be able to milk another 2 channels and diasy-chain another recorder off of it (or split the signal at the V3 off of the AES out).

Would you use a BNC cable for that?

Yes you can daisy chain P2's.

Should be able to use a standard SPDIF coax cable with RCA tips and have a set of RCA>BNC adaptors (like $2 each from B&H). Otherwise yes, you'll need a proper digi-cable with the appropriate ends for whatever your doing.

[barrettphisher]

Thanks guys!  Gonna grab some new cables and another bit bucket and give this a try. 
Barrett

[JasonSobel]

yes, absolutely you can use the word clock out from the V3 (assuming it's not an opti-mod V3).  I never di that, because I never bothered to get BNC > RCA adapters or a BNC to BNC digital cable.  but I already had an AES > coax adapter, so that's what I used to do.

of course, if you go word clock out of the V3 to word clock in on the HD-P2, you would choose "word clock" for the HD-P2 settings, and not the S/PDIF.

Most V3s have a WC out on them (unless they are opti-moded).

So technically you can do 6ch with the V3 as your master. (AES>coax cable, coax out, and V3 WC out)

If the P2 has bit-clock perfect coax-out, then you might be able to milk another 2 channels and diasy-chain another recorder off of it (or split the signal at the V3 off of the AES out).

Would you use a BNC cable for that?

Yes you can daisy chain P2's.

yes, both the S/PDIF input and the S/PDIF output on the HD-P2 are bit-perfect.  So you could use the S/PDIF out from one HD-P2 and send it to another to use as the clock source for the 2nd HD-P2.  I've done this in the past as well.

all this HD-P2 sync'ing talk has really reminded me what a great deck the HD-P2 is.  It really gives you a lot of options to work with, more than most decks in this price range do.