Topic: Lazy Man Taper

[acutejam]

Lazy Friday rambling discussion ensues -- Tee-shirt is a fine souvernir from a show, I prefer a bootleg. I'm just bootlegging for me, I've been at shows with friends who have no idea I'm recording, so we're all over the recording having a good time, they really enjoy the CD I hand 'em the next day -- I guess the fire to get the perfect pull just isn't there. Oh, I go in thinking "This time, I'll really be good." A few Jack-n-Cokes later, yeah that's me singing along! (And my wife is quick to elbow me, "You're gonna be pissed when we get home!")

My favorite recording is one of me and my daughter at her first concert. We're talking throughout, it's an awesome keepsake. Just got one of my 80-year-old Dad and I listening to a folk guitarist, talking throughout. Words can't express how awesome these recordings are to me.

But I've also been going to shows solo now just to perfect the craft. The move from a handheld Zoom H2 up to the CA14/9100/M10 rig has fanned the flames in me. (And a well deserved: THANK YOU, CHRIS! I'll be coming for cards and battery box soon! Sure an epic show is one thing, but the ol' man and me sitting there shooting the shit and laughing and enjoying the night together, truly is priceless.)

Do I have to share -- I'm nervous in so many ways about these stealth bootlegs, but what's the most trouble anyone has ever gotten in for posting a bootleg? I'm completely comfortable sending files to folks in the band forums I frequent, but actually having a torrent of one of my works, i dunno.... I would hate for something i recorded to end up a $50 bootleg for sale in Yugoslavia.

And yet, I really appreciate listening to my fav bands too -- I hardly download anything, maybe 5 concerts in five years, but I do a lot of trading, and I know those folks aren't the actual tapers, but they have connections to tapers (or have torrent accounts most likely), so I'm happy to send them a disc I've done in trade.

And I'm getting kinda proud of some of my recent recordings, I kinda wanna show off, but these are artists with strict no taping policies. (I know I know, already sliding down the slope.) And then, some I'm just too damned embarrassed to trade or post, curse you, jack-n-coke!

And then when I do get home, I pretty much just drop the "master" WAV file onto a CD. My fav shows I'll  take a stab at "mastering" splitting tracks, EQ, gain, (and editing jack-n-coke man out 'tween songs) but for the most part I've gotten in the habit of just breaking up my recordings into 1 hour chunks.

Why should I normalize -- the handclapping and screams of the folks near me is the loudest source, often pegged. Would seem normalizing the entire file would produce almost no adjustment if the peaks are already peaked? My MO is to turn on my gear, clap and hoot-n-holler a bit to set the levels, and then fogetaboutit.

Why are battery boxes / preamps so important -- talking about loud rock shows, I've made a test recording in a small 1200 club in SF with CA14 omnis direct into the Sony M10, mic-in, plug in power on, input on 2-3, signal to -10db.

This club has caught my preamp multiple times (they're checking for "pointy objects" and flasks), my own damn fault. Recording sounds pretty good to me, but I don't understand advanced audio analysis. (Never mind about quiet shows, CA14 omnis into the 9100 into the M10 are INCREDIBLE for small club acoustic sets -- and the "nicer" venues don't full-body-cavity search me!)

From what I've garnered 'round here, the battery box is putting out 9V of phantom power and the M10 only supplies 3.5V -- and that will lower the mics' ability to handle high sound pressure levels? I'm not damaging the mics in any way am I?

Am I altering the sound I'm capturing, more/less bass or treble or something? I don't hear any SPL distortion in the low end (bass/bass drums). (Tried it after seeing reference to Countryman B3 direct in to M10.) That was part of the reason I got a "real" rig, I could definitely hear SPL distortion from the H2 internal mics.

Is there such a thing as 24-BIT CD -- iTunes and MediaPlayer must be dropping my 24-BIT WAVs to 16-BIT to burn audio cds, they gotta be because of the storage capacity of the physcial CD media (780 MBs) when my WAVs are around 1GB. Will I get better results if I use Audacity or something to do that conversion?

I hope I haven't offended ya'll too seriously! I'm getting there!

And so lastly -- WHat are some open taping festivals or venues in the SF Bay Area I could tune my skills at? I'd get a kick outta setting up my CA14s on a pole in front of a stack! I'm guessing I shouldn't add a windsock though....

[nameloc01]

A "bootleg" refers to an unauthorized live recording that is being *SOLD* for a profit...so, the first thing Id probably do is refrain from using that term..especially here. Ivd never heard of anyone getting into legal trouble for anything other than selling recordings (bootlegs).. I wouldnt worry about simply sharing your recordings..obviously,you want to not broadcast who you are.. ect. The only way to ensure your recordings dont end up for sale somewhere is to not release them..to anyone.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

The only way to ensure your recordings dont end for sale somewhere is to not release them..to anyone.

That's pretty much the long and short of it.  In this day and age once a recording is out in the ether, it's out there and, with a few exceptions, there's not a whole lot you can do to control where it ends up.  On the converse side, the more people you get your recordings to and the wider and further they're distributed, the less likely they are to be "bootlegged" and sold.  Even then there are no guarantees as there are always some bloodsucking scumbags who will try to make a buck off what other people are offering for free.  While different tapers take this hobby to different degrees of seriousness, my general attitude is to just have fun and don't sweat over it too much.

[page]

I agree with both of the above.

and second:

My favorite recording is one of me and my daughter at her first concert. We're talking throughout, it's an awesome keepsake. Just got one of my 80-year-old Dad and I listening to a folk guitarist, talking throughout. Words can't express how awesome these recordings are to me.

Some of my favorite non-music events are going back and hearing family and friends on the recording. Doesn't happen often, but it's a pleasant surprise.

[acutejam]

Ah, thought I'd learn something by posting this. Changed the thread title! I'm definitely a taper, not a bootlegger!

[bryonsos]

Ah, thought I'd learn something by posting this. Changed the thread title! I'm definitely a taper, not a bootlegger!

 

[danlynch]

You're asking a lot of important questions, but there's too much to discuss in one topic.  My advice is to take some time and read a lot of what is posted here.  TS.com has all types of tapers, but almost everyone is willing to offer sound advice.  And there are almost no "new" questions, as everything has been discussed here many times.  Its a wealth of knowledge, all sitting here for your information!
Love your enthusiasm, and welcome aboard!

[mosquito]

Welcome home, acutejam.

[mepaca]

Do not talk at concerts. Taping or not, nobody wants to pay to listen to you talk.

[stevetoney]

Everybody talks.  I disagree with the tapers that say people shouldn't talk at a show because every taper I know talks, so to me saying that is hypocritical.  I can see stealthers being quiet, but if you're a stealther standing DFC in the middle of the crowd and you get pissed about people talking around you, well you're stealthing so I really can't see that argument either.  Maybe you want people around you to be quiet because you're stealthing, but it's just not gonna happen. 

Yeah, there are lots of people that go overboard and if they are loud and obnoxious and never shut up during the show, that's a different situation because it's rude.  But I don't think it's rude to talk to your friends a little bit at a show and I don't have a problem, as a paying customer, if people talk around me.  I'm focused on the music anyway so I just don't let it bother me. 

The best solution to reconciling the talking to your tapes is to target bands that allow taping and start recording open with a mic stand.  If you put your mics above peoples heads, it will minimize the background from the audience.  With your mics up in the air you can enjoy the show so much more.  You can have your jack and cokes, take a pee, talk to your wife and dance your ass off and you'll still have a great recording!

[TimeBandit]

Welcome. As specially to most of the questions they are all answered. just have a look around. So just only the short form from me:

PCM-M10 is one recorder with very good internal pre. so no problem run the CA Mics straight into it. Only on very high SPL events you should still stick on a battery box. Marantz PMD 620 is also good it has 5 Volt pip so even you can record gigh SPL acts without batterybox with that machine. For recording acoustic it isn't that good because of noisy stock preamp or youre lucky and find an oade modded one .

Standard Audio CD are always 16 Bit / 44 PCM, so your software is converting before burning. for that reason you should check and correct your files for sector boundary errors with traders little helper, so the recording is real flawless burned on the disc.

You recording in 24 Bit its fine it gives you better handling for raising the gain later in post. Which frequency rate too choose is a hot discussion in a other thread you find here. My way is going 44 kHz because i don't have good plugins for downsampling, and 96 kHz makes only sense you are recording full acoustic acts or nature sounds or do Soundboard pulls on a desk which internals  handle full 96 khz Chain too. Most PA in clubs only go up to 20 khZ or just a bit higher so recording 96 kHz makes no sense there...

stil got no problem with talkers... most time i was lucky and they shut up or whisper when music is on and between songs i don't care about chatter. only those folks which don't shut up in the songs and you have taped their whole life story on your deck are annoying, but sometimes give you some funny laughs when you do rehearsal at home what they are talking about.

[newplanet7]

Ok lazy a$$! Here's what I have. WELCOME MANG!!!!!
1) You fixed the bootleg thing, now educate your friends about it too.

2) The most important thing IMO is enjoying the show. Whether you get super
bent and ruin your tapes is up to you. Just know though, that you may be
ruining someone elses good time or someone elses tape too who may be stealthing.
Once again entirely up to you.
Ya know you can still have fun and "behave" Have you thought about maybe getting
some of your buddies involved and making it a guys night out to tape?

3) It appeared to me that you were questioning your "fire" to
get a good pull isn't there, as you said.
 Something tells me though that you are into it because of your
fondness of the moments with your daughter and dad. Personally, I bring
my son with me sometimes and while we are not recording ourselves chatting,
it is a very rewarding situation. I have borrowed a second rig before and
hit the road with my boy. He ran his own rig a couple times and loves it.
So if you love the hobby for the family aspect, let that be your fire for now.
Also it seems the upgrade bug has bitten you so it looks as if you are in it
for a little while now

4) Not sure what you record but, assuming it's stealth from your post,
you don't HAVE TO share through torrents. It seems you do in fact share.
Sending the band the files and forum members is sharing. Since you run
stealth it seems, sharing on the downlow is a good idea to start. I wouldn't
circulate your drunken tapes though. Also, if you are going to share, at least
track out the effing sshow! Ha Ha! It is the easiest thing to do for post
production.If you are on windows get a program called CDWAVE. It really takes
less than 10 minutes to track out a show if you are familiar with the material.
If you are going to share, track it.

5) Normalizing brings up the signal to a reasonable volume for playback
Many threads on here to search for that term. With the clapping being
the loudest, to eaily "Fix" just bring down the volume in those parts and then
use Peak Normalize.

6)

And so lastly -- WHat are some open taping festivals or venues in the SF Bay Area I could tune my skills at? I'd get a kick outta setting up my

[fleish]

And so lastly -- WHat are some open taping festivals or venues in the SF Bay Area I could tune my skills at? I'd get a kick outta setting up my CA14s on a pole in front of a stack! I'm guessing I shouldn't add a windsock though....

Open taping festivals in the bay area? None really come to mind. Outside Lands - big no. Hardly Strictly - not as bad, but still not officially condoned. Treasure Island - never been, but given the line-ups I recall I'd guess no again. A few years ago when the Life Is Good Festival happened in the park it was open taping. And I guess Franti's Power To The Peaceful gig would be open taping as well - though I've never taped it myself.

As for open taping venues in the area, there are plenty - presuming the artist playing is OK with it. Just to name a few off hand ... SF: Red Devil Lounge, Independent, Warfield ... Santa Cruz: Catalyst, Moe's Alley ... Oakland: Fox Theatre, New Parish ... Petaluma: Mystic Theatre ... Sebastopol: The Abbey @ Hopmonk Tavern. Check out the venue info section here for much more details. There's also the SF Bay Area thread in the Team Boards section - though it's pretty low traffic usually.

What kind of music are you into/have you been taping?

[mosquito]

Yeah, what they're ^^ saying.  There are plenty of bands and places to open tape in the Bay Area.  What's worked well for me is to find a band (or group of bands) that I really like and get their permission to tape and then record them a lot, especially if it's in the same venue.  That allowed me to learn a lot more -- 'cause there were fewer variables for any given night -- and develop a good rapport so I understand better where the musicians are coming from, and even a bit of a reputation.

[acutejam]

SHAZAM! Recording from the weekend just brought me to tears! Small theater venue, I'm second row, and I'm hearing the sound direct from (and am physically closer to) the drum kit and amps more than the PA, one little reinforcement speaker on the edge of the stage blasting the vocals in my face -- and the CA-14 omnis/9100/M10 just freakin' NAILED it!!!! Pushed it to about -6 -3 db, the audience never peaks ... cause they're all BEHIND me! OMG! Incredible recording, I had no idea it would sound this good!

Just listening through my Shure earbuds direct from the M10. Can't stop! WHOO-HOO! Much more up-front "present" sound than 20 people back, direct-in no pre-amp, no room-boom, heck, stereo seperation I can totally hear -- the bass is over there, the guitar is over there, that cymbal crashes there, the freakin vocals are in my face -- but sure, too many variables to compare.

Nice to know the mic/unit plug-in power mini-rig is viable though.

Thanks for all the responses, good advice, I used to be in tight with Johnny Nitro and the Doorslamers (RIP), but I know a few other bands I could approach -- just haven't done the small club scene for years now.

Music overall, rock to folk to acoustic guitar -- will travel to see Rush and Pearl Jam, the wife and I see most of what's on offer at the Greek Theater every summer (James Taylor, Ray Lamontaigne, David Gray, Jack Johnson, Plant BoJ, etc etc). Been hitting the Fillmore more (Chris Cornell, Peter Murphy) and have really enjoyed shows at both the Paramount and the Fox in Oakland. Govt Mule. Have been to Wente, but now prefer the Mountain Winery in Saratoga, Neko Case was brilliant last year. And I love the Uptown Theater in Napa -- they're booking a lot of good music past few years. Leo Kottke, Al Dimeola heck doesn't matter -- I love good guitar! I'd say small "rock" acoustic guitar shows are my fav these days -- Chris Cornell, John Butler Trio. Prolly keep going to Outside Lands and am a regular at the Bridge School Benefits. Usually have a stack of tickets in play, Coldplay, Black Keys and Death Cab taped to the fridge right now.

Just hit the Mystic Theater for the first time, great vibe!

Normalize, yeah, I'm lazy, but that's what I gotta do, huh, get in and edit those non-music peaks then normalize. Just downloaded Audacity and it actually went pretty smooth! Yer right, about 10-minutes to track it! And I spit out 16 bit WAVs easy-peasy.

And I gotta laugh, no I'm not super bent, I usually catch myself after a few words of singing along! And I have a really distinctive concert yippie-ya-hoo carefully crafted over the years (Chris Cornell thought it sounded like a confederate solider's war cry, at which point I vowed to never unleash it again, so embarrassing) -- but I'm good there too, I count to seven after a song ends before unleashing that once or twice a show! (You'd know if you were at a show with me...)

Dunno, big part of me says you gotta show some appreciation to the artists -- now I fake clap, palms never hitting, tips of fingers only. I mouth the words... silent scream!

Even so, I get the "impairing" others' experience, one of my pet peeves which seems to be getting much much worse in recent years. Sure I'm heightend to it by taping, but chatting right through four or five quiet Ray Lamontaigne songs to catch up on the week with your girlfriends is f'n rude. I've called over ushers to shut people up. I've politely pleaded with people. Of all places, Berkeley folks are the worst, not just the students -- the Greek has become the "be seen" and talk throughout show. No respect for folks around 'em. And unfortunately, the Bridge School is prolly the second worst....

Funny, I have a tape of me singing the first chorus of what I know is a sing-along song, but nobody really joins in on that first chorus, and at the very end I can just hear on tape someone near me saying, "Oh man, this guy has to shut the f'k up!" I felt really bad and my first thought was, "OMG, I ruined his tape!" And then the second chorus, I don't sing, you can't even hear the band for the crowd!

No no, most of my talking is just a quick, "That rocked!" in between songs.

I'm thinking my OS9/Cubase days are done. Audacity was nice and quick to normalize/track, but I'm thinking Audition or Logic for more control -- and I like having a full DAW for my own jams. But I think some CA14 cards are next!