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Author Topic: Fostex FR-2 users?  (Read 29207 times)

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Offline jacallery

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Re:Fostex FR-2 users?
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2004, 04:33:18 PM »
>Can this unit do 24/96 digital in? Assuming unlimited media, how long >can you record a continuous file?

Yes it can do 24/96 through the digital in.  Fostex has a undate for it
that you can download from there site (free of course) through
your USB to update it to V1.03.  This new update allows for one
continuous file to be 4GB.  So your answer is 4gb.

>It would be great if you could try the Schoeps straight into the FR2 >preamps on something extremely quiet running max gain.

I'll do it, no problem.  

callery

schoeps mk41/mk5+cmc6xt>Nagra V (24/96)

BobW

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Re:Fostex FR-2 users?
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2004, 04:45:21 PM »
Great info !
Thanks. &  +T for the HD recording good karma

Offline MattD

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Re:Fostex FR-2 users?
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2004, 07:23:22 PM »
About that file to 4GB thing ... does it record 2 mono files? (So it really is the equivalent of an 8 GB stereo file.)

If so, I will keep an eye on this. +T for doing the dirty work!
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Offline jacallery

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Re:Fostex FR-2 users?
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2004, 09:40:11 PM »
>does it record 2 mono files? (So it really is the equivalent of an 8 GB >stereo file.

I'm pretty sure it is a 4gb stereo file.  It will record about  2hours on a 4gb continuous file doing 24/96.  You could easily hit record standby between songs (like hitting pause) and immediatly start another file without losing more than a second.

callery
schoeps mk41/mk5+cmc6xt>Nagra V (24/96)

Offline sickrick43

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Re:Fostex FR-2 users?
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2004, 10:17:31 PM »
>does it record 2 mono files? (So it really is the equivalent of an 8 GB >stereo file.

I'm pretty sure it is a 4gb stereo file.  It will record about  2hours on a 4gb continuous file doing 24/96.  You could easily hit record standby between songs (like hitting pause) and immediatly start another file without losing more than a second.

callery


From thier documentation, 112 mins - which is close enough.  Though you'd sometimes be hard pressed to find a "between songs" during some bands 2nd sets (dead, etc.).

Still anxious to hear how the pre-a/d sounds.  Like to hear about the pre-a/d WITHOUT anything for a front end.

Transfer, transfer, transfer...

How'd ya make out with the adapta-plug & DC adapter?

Rick
4 Track & CD Live Rig: TLM-170's->V3->SD-744T  CDLive->TC Finalzer Express->Tascam CDR-900SL

24 Track Rig: Audix D6/D2/D4/I5/SCX1-C/O->Whilrwind SPC82 ISO Splitters->DigimaxLT's->Alesis HD24 (Lucid GenX192 Master Clock)

Canon 1Ds MarkII - 16-35/2.8L - 24-70/2.8L - 70-200/2.8L IS - 180/f:3.5 Macro - 550EX Flash


"this isnt a dramatic bitchy exit, its just time to go." - Big Ray (queen of the dramatic bitchy exit)

Offline sickrick43

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Re:Fostex FR-2 users?
« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2004, 01:20:33 AM »
They FINALLY posted the OWNERS MANUAL!!!

http://www.fostex.com/support/pdf/fostex/fr2/fr2_owners_manual.pdf

I been hitting this link all weekend, it actually has the file now, instead of being a dead link...

(now if I could only get Canon to post the 1D MarkII manual)

Rick

Edit: Additional info after reading manual:

Format on media is FAT32, not NTFS.

Max file size that deck will record is 2GB (note: callery reports that Fostex says latest update will allow 4GB filesize - what follows below is based on 4GB maxfilesize - manual has not been updated to reflect 4GB maxfilesize.)

Thus
228 mins @ 24/48 - 112 mins @ 24/96 - 56 mins @ 24/192
344 Mins @ 16/48

The unit has 5 seconds of "pre-record buffer" @ 24/96.  From what I gathered in my reading, ALL input runs thru the buffer before being written to the card.

122 Minutes is OK - the equivalant of 2 hour tape.  You can start a new file "on the fly" by hitting the record button, but nothing I read indicates that this is done in a "seamless/lossless" fashion, nor did the manual indicate anything with regards to whether the deck would AUTOMATICALLY start a NEW FILE when it hits 4GB (or just STOP), or how the deck reacts when it runs out of space on the media.  It would be HIGHLY ILLOGICAL (as Mr. Spock is fond of saying) for the unit (heh heh heh, did he say UNIT?) to just STOP.  And a 5 second buffer "should" be more than sufficient to start a new file without a gap.

Conclusion(s): If the deck is only capable of 112 minutes of recording @ 96/24, and does not do a "gapless/lossless" start of a new file - down to the FRAME, where at least you could paste it together without a click as a Wave64 or other larger audio format for editing, before dithering/resampling down to 44.1 for mastering - then the deck may be somewhat limited for the kind of recording we do here.  Also, if the deck doesn't start a new file automatically when it hits 4GB, it's going to be an inconvenience at best, and a DISASTER at worst.  The current lack of media much bigger then 4-5GB is going to be a hinderance also.

Not having a cover for the top controls, is also an accident waiting to happen, if you're running in a bag, or in a situation where any of these controls could be hit by accident.  There is no "button lock/hold button" on this deck - though the only way to stop recording is by hitting the rec-standby key.

In light of the capacities above, I don't think this deck was designed with US in mind, but rather broadcast/production (like anyone really makes anything for US?).  Is it usable?  Yeah, sure.  Are there limitations?  Um, a couple of glaring ones - the main one being 112 minutes @ 24/96, which actually isn't much for a non-linear recording system.

I'm still really interested in hearing about how "musical" the input section is, as opposed to the current crop of Pre's (V3/MiniMe/etc) as a means of reducing the "rig" to mics/cables/deck.

If I've still gotta haul all the rest of my crap, and want better than 2 hour interruption-free recording - I might as well keep using the JB3 (or D-10) for the time being.

AGAIN NOTE:  If maxfilesize had been increased, it comes down to availability/cost of LARGER than 4GB media (112 mins @ 24/96 w/4GB maxfilesize) and how good the input section is.  It's still more cost effective, if you already own a pre-a/d and plan on keeping it, to run a JB3.

I'm still really interested in this unit, 'cause it's a neat toy, and firmware upgradeable means they can fix alot of the shortcomings/bugs as time goes on.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2004, 09:24:53 AM by sickrick43 »
4 Track & CD Live Rig: TLM-170's->V3->SD-744T  CDLive->TC Finalzer Express->Tascam CDR-900SL

24 Track Rig: Audix D6/D2/D4/I5/SCX1-C/O->Whilrwind SPC82 ISO Splitters->DigimaxLT's->Alesis HD24 (Lucid GenX192 Master Clock)

Canon 1Ds MarkII - 16-35/2.8L - 24-70/2.8L - 70-200/2.8L IS - 180/f:3.5 Macro - 550EX Flash


"this isnt a dramatic bitchy exit, its just time to go." - Big Ray (queen of the dramatic bitchy exit)

Offline MattD

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Re:Fostex FR-2 users?
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2004, 09:45:14 AM »
This size limit is exactly what I'm afraid of with the SD722, which also claims to use BWF files. Why the hell NOT w64 or SDII extended?

I guess I won't be buying a FR-2 anytime in the forseeable future. One of my requirements for a new recording device would be 4+ hours of continuous or seamless (to the sample) 24/96.
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Offline sickrick43

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Re:Fostex FR-2 users?
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2004, 09:55:22 AM »
This size limit is exactly what I'm afraid of with the SD722, which also claims to use BWF files. Why the hell NOT w64 or SDII extended?

I guess I won't be buying a FR-2 anytime in the forseeable future. One of my requirements for a new recording device would be 4+ hours of continuous or seamless (to the sample) 24/96.

The 4GB limitation is not file type, as much format type - FAT32 has a filesize limitation of 4GB...

What are you recording that requires 4+ hours seamless?


Rick
4 Track & CD Live Rig: TLM-170's->V3->SD-744T  CDLive->TC Finalzer Express->Tascam CDR-900SL

24 Track Rig: Audix D6/D2/D4/I5/SCX1-C/O->Whilrwind SPC82 ISO Splitters->DigimaxLT's->Alesis HD24 (Lucid GenX192 Master Clock)

Canon 1Ds MarkII - 16-35/2.8L - 24-70/2.8L - 70-200/2.8L IS - 180/f:3.5 Macro - 550EX Flash


"this isnt a dramatic bitchy exit, its just time to go." - Big Ray (queen of the dramatic bitchy exit)

Offline MattD

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Re:Fostex FR-2 users?
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2004, 11:13:39 AM »
Even if it were formatted in NTFS or HFS+, a BWF could STILL only max out at 4 GB. Period. It is a limitation of file type. In this case, that limitation happens to coincide with the limitation of the FAT32 system in use. I still say poor design for this - these changes would not have been expensive to implement in the design stage.

Sorry about that 4 hours misstatement. I should have said 4 GB. I think I've only come close to 4 hours once in recording and that was a 3 1/2 hour show where I started the recording early b/c I didn't realize they were only soundchecking, but ended up leaving it on because they went almost straight from that to playing.

However, I'll record 4 GB every time I go to a show that's longer than two hours, when I'm doing 24/96. This happens at almost half the shows I go to, to the point where I'll run 24/48 if the band has a reputation for playing long sets or one long set.
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Offline Stuart

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Re:Fostex FR-2 users?
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2004, 01:20:31 PM »
Surprisingly so, and no doubt to be a disappointment for those of you who are concert taping patriots, the max file size is 2gigs.  As of yesterday afternoon, a .pdf manual is on the fostex web site.
http://www.fostex.com/index.php?file=products/pfr/fr2
The cool thing is, though it probably won't address this problem, the FR-2 has a flash rom that can receive software updates with little hassle.  Maybe they're going to release something that'll make you able to record longer files...

I'm still gonna get one, but I can see how this would knock the box out of contender status for many of you.

S.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2004, 01:22:18 PM by Stuart »

Offline sickrick43

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Re:Fostex FR-2 users?
« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2004, 05:57:33 PM »
Surprisingly so, and no doubt to be a disappointment for those of you who are concert taping patriots, the max file size is 2gigs.  As of yesterday afternoon, a .pdf manual is on the fostex web site.
http://www.fostex.com/index.php?file=products/pfr/fr2
The cool thing is, though it probably won't address this problem, the FR-2 has a flash rom that can receive software updates with little hassle.  Maybe they're going to release something that'll make you able to record longer files...

I'm still gonna get one, but I can see how this would knock the box out of contender status for many of you.

S.


Stu...

uh, like, you don't READ PREVIOUS MESSAGES in the thread?

Hey Matt...

I've yet to see any removable media device that uses NTFS, I don't know if it's a licensing issue or what.  Being that this and the file it uses (BWF) appears to be geared towards the broadcast/production industry, I doubt they were thinking about "takes" bigger then 4gb.  The 4gb limitation of the wav/bwf format is a moot point, if the media format won't handle files larger anyway.

With non-linear being the "next big thing" in portable recording (according to Sony, Fostex and damn near everyone else) I'm interested in seeing how they're going to deal with this.  Wave64 is a Sonic Foundry (now Sony) format (licensing again) and being that format oriented groups need to maintain downward compatility with fat/fat32 OS's, I wouldn't even VENTURE how this issue is going to be resolved.


Rick
« Last Edit: March 18, 2004, 06:07:24 PM by sickrick43 »
4 Track & CD Live Rig: TLM-170's->V3->SD-744T  CDLive->TC Finalzer Express->Tascam CDR-900SL

24 Track Rig: Audix D6/D2/D4/I5/SCX1-C/O->Whilrwind SPC82 ISO Splitters->DigimaxLT's->Alesis HD24 (Lucid GenX192 Master Clock)

Canon 1Ds MarkII - 16-35/2.8L - 24-70/2.8L - 70-200/2.8L IS - 180/f:3.5 Macro - 550EX Flash


"this isnt a dramatic bitchy exit, its just time to go." - Big Ray (queen of the dramatic bitchy exit)

Offline wboswell

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Re:Fostex FR-2 users?
« Reply #41 on: March 18, 2004, 06:15:46 PM »
Who anticipates recording 24/96 every show anyway?  While I certainly want to give it a go, I just don't think the storage hassle is worth it considering the type of music I typically capture.  Onstage or in a perfect setting, then yes, I would like to go 96k, but for the average show I record, I don't really think the gain v. hassle will be worth it.  One of the things I look forward to the most about dvd-a is having an entire show on one disc!

BobW

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Re:Fostex FR-2 users?
« Reply #42 on: March 18, 2004, 06:25:32 PM »
The noise floor at a show is so high that 24 bit is even overkill.
It is just easier to set levels with more headroom.
96kHz with all of that noise in the mix is an arguable benefit.

Now for classical and jazz, the game's in a new park, IMHO.

Offline Stuart

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Re:Fostex FR-2 users?
« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2004, 07:03:09 PM »
Whoops, sorry Rick.  Saw that manual link on another forum and couldn't wait to share.  Didn't even see it till' you pointed it out.  My bad.  Anyways, my point was that the max file size is 2 gigs, not four, as your post infers.

S.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2004, 07:05:31 PM by Stuart »

Offline MattD

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Re:Fostex FR-2 users?
« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2004, 08:35:47 PM »
Now for classical and jazz, the game's in a new park, IMHO.

Which is inclusive of the taping that I've done. Jazz (not through a PA) at 16/44.1 and 24/96 is mind-blowingly different. One of the reasons that I've been pushing to get a stable 24/96 platform is because I have heard this difference.

Sickrick, you make a good point about the w64 format. I figured since Spark used it, it wasn't something that needed to be licensed. I also now see where you were going with your file system argument.

The only stable 24/96 laptop platform I've used is DP 3.11 in OS9. That, however, has a 2GB filesize limit in place, and is really annoying for concerts. If MOTU were able to alter that, I would gladly dump Panther, wipe my drive, load OS9 and record away.

I have had mixed success with some beta software in OS 10.3 and 10.3.2. For example, a solo cello concert I recently recorded (it's coming, Moke and Brian!) went flawlessly in 24/96. However, the 24/96 onstage Lotus I did had a few flaws.

I think it's 24/48 for me until these issues get worked out by drivers or software updates.
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