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Offline aaronji

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Cool modular mic bar system...
« on: May 22, 2017, 11:15:23 AM »
I almost always take trains, with a lot of walking and an occasional bus, when I go to shows.  As a result, I am always trying to trim excess weight and bulk from my rig.  To get wider mic spacing, I was using a Manfrotto 154B, but that thing is the opposite of "light and compact", so I was searching for an alternative.  I had pretty much settled on either a followinbob 24" bar or a Grace spacebar, but I was hesitant to deal with the hassle of the international shipping (and associated VAT and import taxes) on the followinbob bar and the expense of the spacebar.  As luck would have it, I ran into a friend who does a lot of professional recording (including for NOS and VPRO) and he suggested I take a look at mic-bar.com.  I bought the basic AB bar and am really pleased with it.  Very solid construction and much lighter, and more compact, than the Manfrotto.  Robert, the owner, was very quick to respond to my e-mails and shipping was extremely fast and well-packaged.  At this point, I have used it "in the field" a couple of times and it works very well.  I will almost certainly pick up a second basic AB bar and the ORTF bar, which will give me 120 cm spacing (altogether, this will be the equivalent of Set 1: AB 120 cm).

During my search, I also came across this alternative.  It is more on a par with the spacebar (and priced accordingly).  This one also has a large central piece that mounts on the stand ("Mikrofonbasis mit Kabelabfangsystem"), but the bulk of that was another deterrent for me.

Anyway, I am not sure if this is of interest to most people here (due to shipping from Germany), but I thought I would post it.  I searched, but didn't see this anywhere, so apologies if it is already somewhere on the site...
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 11:17:25 AM by aaronji »

Offline cjc1103

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2017, 12:19:56 PM »
Thanks for researching this. Sure, ORTF mic bars are common, good mic bars for spaced mics are hard to find. I too have a Manofrotto 154B, and while super solid, it is unwieldy and a little heavy so your mic stand is more likely to waver back and forth. I really want to be able to put up a spaced omni pair with an XY pair in the middle,slightly forward of the main bar so they form a triangle with the spaced pair, with the sides of the triangle perpendicular to a line from the mics to the speaker. Everyone I have seen doing this and been using a homebrew setup. I was looking at getting a machine shop to make me a customer mic bar, but I'm thinking this would be a good alternative.
Chris
Chattanooga, TN

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2017, 12:32:22 PM »
Great looking product. We have been running split omnis with the Manfrotto for two summers now. This would be a nice alternative, but I would be loathe to do shipping and crap overseas.
BTW, what does the price translate to today in USD?
music IS love

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Offline waltmon

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2017, 03:58:55 PM »
I spoke to the owner and told him about Taperssection retail page etc. Very cool guy has his own shop where he builds these.  I ordered the 2 shaped bar so I can run my AK40 active between and in front of my U89s.
KM140's, KM150's, U89's, Mixpre-10T II, Mixpre-6 (1st gen), 788T

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Offline Fried Chicken Boy

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2017, 06:07:44 PM »
Great looking product. We have been running split omnis with the Manfrotto for two summers now. This would be a nice alternative, but I would be loathe to do shipping and crap overseas.
BTW, what does the price translate to today in USD?

Checking the exchange rate today, it's around USD $122 for the "Basic AB" bar.  But those prices might include VAT which, in theory, U.S. residents shouldn't have to pay.  Maybe that and the overseas shipping would cancel each other out? 

Nice find, aaronji!  Don't know if one of these will be a future purchase for me, but you never can tell.  Some photos of it in use in the field would be cool. :)

Offline connloyalist

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2017, 10:56:12 AM »
Nice!

Slightly off-topic.... I know what NOS setup is, but I am not familiar with a VPRO setup? (by the way, VPRO and NOS are both Dutch broadcasters).

Regards, Christine

Offline aaronji

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2017, 12:01:52 PM »
^ Actually, I was referring to the broadcasters; my friend is a professional sound engineer who does a lot of recording (and live broadcasting) for those two and some others. 

Some photos of it in use in the field would be cool. :)

I tried to get a photo for you at Dub Trio in Amsterdam on Sunday.  The house lights were dim even before/after the show, though, and you can't see much (other than the silver part of the XLRs).  I will try again next time!

Offline waltmon

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2017, 09:41:42 AM »
This is the new bar I ordered plus a 2nd set of knobs.
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Offline dactylus

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2017, 09:47:59 AM »

^
Looks nice waltmon!
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Offline aaronji

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2017, 06:03:56 PM »
This is the new bar I ordered plus a 2nd set of knobs.

Out of curiosity (if you don't mind my asking), what did you pay for it in dollars? And how much was shipping to the US?

Offline waltmon

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2017, 06:45:47 PM »
I wanna say 140 shipped with a couple extra knobs...I asked him to send me a paypal invoice the German website was troublesome :)
KM140's, KM150's, U89's, Mixpre-10T II, Mixpre-6 (1st gen), 788T

CA-14 > UBB > Tascam DR-2D

1 pound non-sequential $50.00 bills

Offline if_then_else

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2017, 06:01:59 AM »
I wanna say 140 shipped with a couple extra knobs...I asked him to send me a paypal invoice the German website was troublesome :)

FWIW: If you want "light, compact and modular", you could easily build your own mic bar by re-purposing some dslr accessories:

Manfrotto Dado adapter
rig rods (for DSLR cameras) with a diameter of 15mm and M10 threading (available in various length: 15cm, 25 cm, 30 cm, ...)
rod clamps (15mm diameter)
1/4 -> 3/8 threading adapters

The only downside is that you don't have any markings (for the various mic configs) on the rig rod.
But you could use a goniometer (used in physical therapy) instead.

Offline aaronji

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2017, 06:21:13 AM »
I wanna say 140 shipped with a couple extra knobs...I asked him to send me a paypal invoice the German website was troublesome :)

That's pretty reasonable.  Given the exchange rate right now, plus shipping, I would have thought it might be a bit more.  No VAT on exports makes a big difference!

Offline waltmon

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2017, 08:11:08 AM »
And the gent was great to deal with as well.
KM140's, KM150's, U89's, Mixpre-10T II, Mixpre-6 (1st gen), 788T

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Offline two2the8

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2017, 03:20:19 PM »

FWIW: If you want "light, compact and modular", you could easily build your own mic bar by re-purposing some dslr accessories:

Manfrotto Dado adapter
rig rods (for DSLR cameras) with a diameter of 15mm and M10 threading (available in various length: 15cm, 25 cm, 30 cm, ...)
rod clamps (15mm diameter)
1/4 -> 3/8 threading adapters

The only downside is that you don't have any markings (for the various mic configs) on the rig rod.
But you could use a goniometer (used in physical therapy) instead.

Wow, this dado thing is pretty cool! Compact & modular... Dig it!

Offline down2earthlandscaper

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2017, 03:54:55 PM »
I wanna say 140 shipped with a couple extra knobs...I asked him to send me a paypal invoice the German website was troublesome :)

FWIW: If you want "light, compact and modular", you could easily build your own mic bar by re-purposing some dslr accessories:

Manfrotto Dado adapter
rig rods (for DSLR cameras) with a diameter of 15mm and M10 threading (available in various length: 15cm, 25 cm, 30 cm, ...)
rod clamps (15mm diameter)
1/4 -> 3/8 threading adapters

The only downside is that you don't have any markings (for the various mic configs) on the rig rod.
But you could use a goniometer (used in physical therapy) instead.

Cool! Is that what's considered "gear porn"?
Mics: CA-14(cards & omnis) and CA-11(cards & omnis) ; AT853's(cards, hypers, mini shotguns); Busman BSC-1 (cards, hypers, omnis)
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Offline aaronji

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2017, 07:01:01 AM »
FWIW: If you want "light, compact and modular", you could easily build your own mic bar by re-purposing some dslr accessories:

That's pretty cool.  Personally, though, I would rather spend a little more and get a set-up from mic-bar.com.  There are a lot fewer pieces to deal with (or lose), less futzing around with angles and measures, and the slot where the thumb screws slide is a perfect attachment point for a safety cable.  And it's a one-click purchase.  I also like supporting a small business making specialty gear for a rather niche market.  Actually, I don't even think it is more expensive, as those Dados aren't cheap...

Offline voltronic

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2017, 07:40:39 AM »
FWIW: If you want "light, compact and modular", you could easily build your own mic bar by re-purposing some dslr accessories:

That's pretty cool.  Personally, though, I would rather spend a little more and get a set-up from mic-bar.com.  There are a lot fewer pieces to deal with (or lose), less futzing around with angles and measures, and the slot where the thumb screws slide is a perfect attachment point for a safety cable.  And it's a one-click purchase.  I also like supporting a small business making specialty gear for a rather niche market.  Actually, I don't even think it is more expensive, as those Dados aren't cheap...

Those mic bars are definitely nice, I've seen both companies referenced a bit on GS.  In terms of supporting a small business, the other option for a bar around 60 cm is the 24" wide mic bar made by followinbob here on TS.

Regarding the Dado: there are quite a few cheap knockoffs out there.  Here are two examples, in a full sphere and a hemisphere:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Multifunctional-Magic-Ball-3-8-Hole-for-Studio-Lighting-Tripod-5d2-5d3-system-/171250759407
http://www.ebay.com/itm/iShoot-Metal-Magic-Ball-14-3-8-Adapter-Screw-Hole-f-Camera-Tripod-Head-/151392011447?hash=item233faac4b7:g:iREAAOSwQItT-pck
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Offline if_then_else

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2017, 08:54:18 AM »
FWIW: If you want "light, compact and modular", you could easily build your own mic bar by re-purposing some dslr accessories:

That's pretty cool.  Personally, though, I would rather spend a little more and get a set-up from mic-bar.com.  There are a lot fewer pieces to deal with (or lose), less futzing around with angles and measures, and the slot where the thumb screws slide is a perfect attachment point for a safety cable.  And it's a one-click purchase.  I also like supporting a small business making specialty gear for a rather niche market.  Actually, I don't even think it is more expensive, as those Dados aren't cheap...

You've got a valid point there as I also tend to support small businesses if possible. (Before I decided to recycle some spare parts from my DSLR rig, I also had a look at mikrofonschiene.de and http://www.stereoschiene.ch/index.php.)

The thing was just that these spare parts were already there and they're light and easily transportable.
I often travel by train, so small size / lightweight was a hard requirement.

As for the price for these DSLR spare parts: you'd be looking somewhere in the region of $ 70-80.
-------------------------------------------
Dado knock-off:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Multifunctional-Magic-Ball-3-8-Hole-for-Studio-Lighting-Tripod-5d2-5d3-system-/171250759407
US $15.88

2x rig rods (30cm M10 threading, 15 mm diameter):
https://www.enjoyyourcamera.com/Videozubehoer/Video-Rig-Zubehoer/2-Stk-15mm-Rundstab-mit-M10-Innengewinde-Quenox-30cm::5885.html
EUR 26.99

2x thread screws
http://www.zollshop.de/de/Madenschrauben-UNC-/-UNF/5/16-quot-UNC/5/16-18-x-1-25-40-mm-Madenschraube-UNC
EUR 1.80

2x rod clamps (15 mm diameter)
https://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Professional-Thread-Support-Monitor/dp/B00MJLQDF4/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1497702621&sr=1-3&keywords=neewer+clamp+rod
US $ 13,98

Offline aaronji

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2017, 06:04:13 PM »
The thing was just that these spare parts were already there and they're light and easily transportable.
I often travel by train, so small size / lightweight was a hard requirement.

If I had the parts lying around, that probably would have made a difference!  I didn't, though, and the simplicity of the mic-bar.com stuff was appealing...

Out of curiosity, how do you connect the mic clips to the rod clamps?  With the screws you listed, I don't think I would have enough clearance to attach my clips.

I also go by train; that's a big part of the reason I wanted to ditch the 154B.  This bar practically disappears in my stand bag and is within a cm or two of the length of the extension bar I use when I clamp, so, size-wise, it works well for me.

In terms of supporting a small business, the other option for a bar around 60 cm is the 24" wide mic bar made by followinbob here on TS.

As I mentioned in the original post, I considered the followinbob.  With international shipping, value-added tax, and import/customs fees, however, it costs the same (even a bit more) than the mic-bar.com, and it doesn't feature the same expandability.  It's great how wide you can space omnis with the mic-bar.com AB 120 cm set...


Offline voltronic

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2017, 11:05:22 AM »
[
In terms of supporting a small business, the other option for a bar around 60 cm is the 24" wide mic bar made by followinbob here on TS.

As I mentioned in the original post, I considered the followinbob.  With international shipping, value-added tax, and import/customs fees, however, it costs the same (even a bit more) than the mic-bar.com, and it doesn't feature the same expandability.  It's great how wide you can space omnis with the mic-bar.com AB 120 cm set...

I missed that bit; sorry.  I also didn't think about all of those other costs making it so expensive... I feel as though we here in the US often make out better buying from the EU than vice versa.
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Offline if_then_else

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2017, 04:09:08 AM »
Out of curiosity, how do you connect the mic clips to the rod clamps?  With the screws you listed, I don't think I would have enough clearance to attach my clips.

The screws I listed go between the Dado and the two rig rods. They're M10 respectively 3/8 threaded.

You need 1/4" (male) to 3/8" (male) threaded screw adapters between the clips and your shock mounts.

Either https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L6J6I3Q?psc=1 or Manfrotto 118 / Kupo KG000912 (slightly bigger).

Offline waltmon

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2017, 09:52:20 AM »
New German T-bar arrive last evening - very well made and light. That is the low profile Neumann shock mount under the ortf active bar.
KM140's, KM150's, U89's, Mixpre-10T II, Mixpre-6 (1st gen), 788T

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Offline kindms

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2017, 01:17:03 PM »
New German T-bar arrive last evening - very well made and light. That is the low profile Neumann shock mount under the ortf active bar.

was this picture taken from 1993 ?

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Offline waltmon

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2017, 01:21:26 PM »
Nice...nah...I reside in a Class A motor home.
KM140's, KM150's, U89's, Mixpre-10T II, Mixpre-6 (1st gen), 788T

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Offline aaronji

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2017, 11:12:12 AM »
Either https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L6J6I3Q?psc=1 or Manfrotto 118 / Kupo KG000912 (slightly bigger).

Thanks!

I feel as though we here in the US often make out better buying from the EU than vice versa.

I think that is generally true, with the value-added tax being the predominant factor.  Often, the prices are pretty similar if you subtract the VAT.  There are also some European manufactured products (including some popular mic brands) that are a little cheaper over here, even with VAT.  The most painful is when you order something from the US to be shipped over; there's the international shipping and insurance and the VAT is applied to both the purchase price and the shipping.  Then there are some processing fees and import duties.  Once I ordered a $35 battery charger that was popular on ts and it cost €75 by the time I got it...

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2017, 01:21:44 PM »
Nice...nah...I reside in a Class A motor home.
I was gonna ask if it was  VW bus? Class A motor home sounds much nicer.
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E|DPA 4060 SK
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

Offline waltmon

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2017, 07:13:34 PM »
Not a VW bus...lol
KM140's, KM150's, U89's, Mixpre-10T II, Mixpre-6 (1st gen), 788T

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2017, 08:09:25 PM »
sweet.
I dig the paint job.
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E|DPA 4060 SK
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

Offline hagstrom71

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2021, 12:45:35 AM »
Inspired by If_then_else here and some others at the purple site,  I got some Smallrig rods & mounts a couple months ago and finally got to put them in action.
I normally use ortf in the center, but thought I'd try M/S this time.  KM83 AB pair with Um70/MK4 for M/S.  I'll probably end up using one pair but it's nice to experiment with a second setup.
I bought the knockoff Dado, but didn't get all the threaded adapters I needed and used an impact clamp instead.   
Yeah, I know it's not lined up perfectly.  I took the photo before I finished adjusting.


Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2021, 08:30:09 AM »
^Nice.

I like 4 channel combined setups with M/S in the middle and have had good luck with it in a couple arrangements you might try with that bar:
1) Between wider-spaced omnis.. on that bar you might try pointing the KM83s 180 degrees apart, directly out toward either side.  That arrangement uses the mic-bodies to extend spacing between capsules as much as possible.  It also uses the  directional nature of the omnis at high frequencies to advantage in combination with the forward-pointing Mid.
2) Substitute cardioids or supercards in place of the omnis, angled +/-45 degrees.  This works well with the spacing available on that bar.  It can be helpful to shift the M/S pair forward of the near-spaced directional pair somewhat, which you may be able to achieve by using the upper and lower hinge points on the suspension mounts, angling the suspension something like 45 degrees forward for the center pair and 45 degrees rearward for the near-spaced pair.  You may be able to use that same angled suspension technique to extend the omni spacing by a few more inches as well, with the omni suspensions angled outwards instead of backward.

The rationale behind this- If you simply wish to compare the two stereo pairs each on their own and choose between one or the other, space and point the omnis as you prefer.  If you want to optimally combine the two pairs, increase the spacing between omnis to about double what you would preferably use without mixing with the center pair. If that's not possible, increase spacing as much as possible and point the mics outward to leverage their HF directionalty.
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Offline hagstrom71

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2021, 11:55:37 AM »
Thanks for the tips Gutbucket.

I plan on getting another pair of rods to extend the length if needed, but like the the idea of positioning the omni's at 180 degrees apart as asll as moving the M/S pair forward.
For the moment I'm just using whichever pair sounds better, but if I can get them to mix together in a way that improves the sound I might as well take advantage of it.

Just seeing your link to OMT setups and gonna check them out.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2021, 12:43:50 PM »
I really need to update that OMT PDF.  I never went back to revise it after the initial posted version and have moved on somewhat in my thinking and setups since.  I recently printed it out and made a bunch of notes on revisions, clarifications and the reorganization of it, but still need to actually revise it.

The intent behind the PDF was to lay out the methodology behind the approach and a logical progression for moving from simple arrays to increasingly complex mutli-mic array setups by way of easy understand visual diagrams.

Here's a photo of my current setup from an outdoor patio show last weekend.  It's 8 channels in total (yeah ridiculous I know), but if you exclude the rear-facing near-spaced pair, it's essentially a combination of both of the arrangements I suggested above: M/S pair in the center, flanked by near-spaced +/-45degree supercards at about the same spacing as what you show, plus wide-spaced omnis in the balls out at the far ends.

[Edit- the stage is located off to the lower right with respect to the photo orientation]
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 05:26:32 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline hagstrom71

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2021, 04:44:14 PM »
That's quite a setup, I'm impressed. Are those shure windscreens on all of them?
What are you recording with this kind of setup?

I'm usually recording small musical ensembles of 1-3 musicians/vocalists for video without any PA.
I can get away with lavaliers, but often I can't have mic stands in the shot.
Getting the best stereo capture and only using lavs for support if needed is usually preferable.

Where the musicians sit in the stereo field is also something I'm experimenting with.
With video they cut from wide shots to close-ups, so having certain elements all the way to one side can get weird when there is a closeup shot.
 

Offline audBall

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2021, 05:12:46 PM »
This is a modular "telescoping" DIY stereo bar I've been tinkering with the past few months. It is comprised of 5cm metal segments with 1/4"-20 threaded ends that can be added or removed to create the desired width. I ordered a handful of them and butted them together with a 1/4"-20 dual-male adapter. The active mounts are made by followinbob.

edit - While the segments are fixed at 5cm, I have found this constraint to be minimized by the adjustable microphone angles (plug to The Stereophonic Zoom) at the ends with the (fb) mic mounts - which hold in place at the selected angle remarkably well.

/edit

Anything beyond 50cm I would recommend additional central support for my particular setup. I was very concerned about weight distribution at first, but this is surprisingly robust - I conducted numerous at-home tests for lengthy periods of time to generate personal comfort. The first image is the action shot (top set of cardioid mics, ~52cm split @ 20 degrees); the second image is a closeup of the general setup; and the third image is a closeup breakdown of parts. This is not a recommendation, rather it is another example of an evolving process to fit my needs.

Oh, and the wide stereo bar helped chase away a 4ft gopher snake safely and effectively, without making any contact, after taking home under our POD blanket during setup.

Recording of the show below:
https://archive.org/details/cats2021-05-07.mg20.flac24
 







« Last Edit: August 26, 2021, 10:15:34 PM by audBall »
mg m20.21 ■ akg ck61.62.63 ■ nbob ■ aerco mp2 ■ v2
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2021, 06:36:48 PM »
My arrangement isn't substantial enough to support heavy mics, much less chase off big snakes! 

I also realize its less relevant than the other stuff in this thread for most folks including youself, but thanks for your interest.  I do like talking about it.  ::)

Yes, Sure A81WS dual-layer windscreens on the five supercards.  The center one also has the coincident fig-8 in there.  The supercards are all small and lightweight lav-sized DPAs, but require that amount of windscreening outdoors.  The omnis are DPA omni lavs, mounted in nerf-foam balls with thinner SM58 type foam windscreens on them.  The largest and heaviest mic up there is the SDC fig-8. 

The entire array retracts / folds up rather compactly for stowage and transport and remains pre-rigged and connected to the recorder which lives in a pocket on the storage bag. making it very quick to setup and breakdown.  I can mount it atop a stand, to a fordable foot at floor height, to a clamp on a table, chair, rafter or whatever.  Such pre-arranged simplicity makes a huge difference when the array grows this complex.  I wouldn't / couldn't do it otherwise. It's certainly grown more visually intrusive over the years as its become larger, but still isn't bad considering the channel count. 

Besides ease of setup, a couple big advantages as I see it are the flexibility it provides for accommodating different recording scenarios and welcome flexibility in crafting a stereo mix.  I record pretty much all kinds of music performance with it- PA amplified stuff in bigger venues from further back, small scale acoustic stuff from up close, instrumental jazz combos from the stage-lip. You can sort of see how the geometry of it reflects recording for surround playback, which was a big part of my working it up, but a very cool part for me was the discovery that arranging things to work really well for surround output actually provided even more advantages for 2-channel stereo output flexibility.  I actually haven't had a surround playback system setup for the last couple years, but retain that capability, both because I look forward to getting back to it at some point and because it works so well for crafting good stereo output.  It does place a burden on needing to spending the time to create an optimal mix, which is both blessing and curse. 

I hear you on the issue of mis-matched perspective between audio and video.  That can be a real challenge and annoying once you become critically aware of it.  Capturing a base-line stereo image that relies a bit more heavily on spacing rather than directional angling of microphones can help as the stereo qualities are then weighted more toward an open and diffuse stereo feel then toward about sharp, distinctive source location precision that may sometimes be in conflict with the visual image.  Then you can pan your close support lavs as needed to better match the audio and video imaging.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 06:43:54 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2021, 05:53:58 PM »
Just posting to fully acknowledge how cool, well thought out, and well implemented Horus's setup is, pictured above.

+T
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline voltronic

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2021, 07:47:34 PM »
I have been going through this thread again recently, and started researching 15mm rod-based setups based on if_then_else and hagstrom71's posts.

Here is a list of what I came up with.

Rod sets (all have M12 internal threading):
https://www.amazon.com/Fotasy-Support-Systems-Mattebox-Shoulder/dp/B00DUK1K3I
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BDFVJ2D
https://www.amazon.com/SmallRig-Aluminum-Camera-System-2-1053/dp/B00AZFX77S

Clamps / mic mounts:
https://www.amazon.com/Smallrig-Connector-Adapter-Threads-Wingnut/dp/B006FGKUUI
https://www.ebay.com/itm/284372182840
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CAMVATE-15mm-Rod-Clamp-5-8-27-male-Screw-For-DSLR-Camera-Microphone-Mount-Rig/192885204041
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254774149388 (for attachment to stand)

M12 end-to-end connectors:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08RJ6WDX2

The only thing I am having trouble locating are M12 to 3/8-16 double-male adapters to connect these rods directly to a Dado-style ball. I could only find this one, and it's very versatile but a bit expensive:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1198057-REG/zacuto_z_dadpt_half_inch_adapter.html

It also would be nice to find rod clamps that have 3/8-16 female threads but I haven't found any. It's not that I'm averse to using adapters; I don't quite trust short 1/4-20 screws to not break if things got bumped, particularly with mics spread out over a wide bar setup.


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Offline if_then_else

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2021, 01:37:05 AM »
If you replace the M12 bars with M10 bars you could use some regular components of video rigs. (That's how I built mine.)
I think in one of the earlier threads, I had also posted a parts list.

 

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2021, 10:42:46 AM »
What ball-in-socket is that?  I've been meaning to search out one of those, compact but substantial enough to lock securely in whatever position without shifting.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline if_then_else

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2021, 12:18:31 PM »
You mean those mini ball head adaptors? I've got mine from Amazon. I think these were labelled "Camvate" but they're also available under different names.
I like them. They're cheap (~ 10$ a pair) but reasonably sturdy.


https://www.amazon.com/CAMVATE-Mini-Ball-Head-Pack/dp/B07D9JCP18/ref=sr_1_21?crid=3ANBJ2T576X94&dchild=1&keywords=mini+ball+head&qid=1635264796&sprefix=mini+ball+head%2Caps%2C192&sr=8-21
« Last Edit: October 26, 2021, 12:33:57 PM by if_then_else »

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2021, 04:11:34 PM »
Thanks!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline if_then_else

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2021, 02:06:21 AM »

The only thing I am having trouble locating are M12 to 3/8-16 double-male adapters to connect these rods directly to a Dado-style ball. I could only find this one, and it's very versatile but a bit expensive:

It also would be nice to find rod clamps that have 3/8-16 female threads but I haven't found any. It's not that I'm averse to using adapters; I don't quite trust short 1/4-20 screws to not break if things got bumped, particularly with mics spread out over a wide bar setup.

Apparently, now there are also some rig rods by 9.solutions in various lengths (up to 50cm) that have male 3/8 threaded endings or come with the corresponding adaptors. Diameters are either 10mm or 15,8mm.

In other words: you could connect them directly to a Manfrotto Dado (or one of its knock-offs).

https://www.thomann.de/de/9solutions_3_8_rod_set_500_mm.htm
https://www.thomann.de/de/9.solutions_5_8_rod_set_500mm.htm

Offline voltronic

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2021, 09:06:35 PM »

The only thing I am having trouble locating are M12 to 3/8-16 double-male adapters to connect these rods directly to a Dado-style ball. I could only find this one, and it's very versatile but a bit expensive:

It also would be nice to find rod clamps that have 3/8-16 female threads but I haven't found any. It's not that I'm averse to using adapters; I don't quite trust short 1/4-20 screws to not break if things got bumped, particularly with mics spread out over a wide bar setup.

Apparently, now there are also some rig rods by 9.solutions in various lengths (up to 50cm) that have male 3/8 threaded endings or come with the corresponding adaptors. Diameters are either 10mm or 15,8mm.

In other words: you could connect them directly to a Manfrotto Dado (or one of its knock-offs).

https://www.thomann.de/de/9solutions_3_8_rod_set_500_mm.htm
https://www.thomann.de/de/9.solutions_5_8_rod_set_500mm.htm

Thanks for reminding me of those! I had found them a while back after purchasing the (excellent) 9.solutions Savior Clamp with Socket. I had forgotten about them until your post. I think this is now the way I would go if making a Dado-based setup. You don't even need the Dado if using the 5/8" rods, as the double-male center connector also has a 3/8" female thread cut perpendicular so you can just mount that directly to your stand.

Here's the full selection of rods they make. The question is if the 5/8" rods (nearly 16 cm) would be too wide to use 15 mm camera rail clamps.
https://9.solutions/products/grip-rigging-system-2/

For US buyers, Adorama and B&H carry their products.

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Offline if_then_else

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2021, 02:14:16 AM »

Thanks for reminding me of those! I had found them a while back after purchasing the (excellent) 9.solutions Savior Clamp with Socket. I had forgotten about them until your post. I think this is now the way I would go if making a Dado-based setup. You don't even need the Dado if using the 5/8" rods, as the double-male center connector also has a 3/8" female thread cut perpendicular so you can just mount that directly to your stand.

Here's the full selection of rods they make. The question is if the 5/8" rods (nearly 16 cm) would be too wide to use 15 mm camera rail clamps.
https://9.solutions/products/grip-rigging-system-2/

For US buyers, Adorama and B&H carry their products.

I think you should be good with the 5/8" rods because the difference isn't huge and there's a bit of slack with the camera rail clamps (unless you've fastened the thumb screws. I'd suspect 9.solution's 5.8" rods to be the same thing thing as regular 15mm rods anyway - because this is something like an industry standard.

Re. Dado or not as the centre-piece: This might depend on the number of mics you're going to run, their weight and the spacing between them.

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2021, 07:14:55 AM »
I think you should be good with the 5/8" rods because the difference isn't huge and there's a bit of slack with the camera rail clamps (unless you've fastened the thumb screws. I'd suspect 9.solution's 5.8" rods to be the same thing thing as regular 15mm rods anyway - because this is something like an industry standard.

Yeah that's a good point. Since they are a film / photo equipment company, it makes sense that they would use standard measurements.

Re. Dado or not as the centre-piece: This might depend on the number of mics you're going to run, their weight and the spacing between them.

I don't follow you here. You are relying on the integrity of the 3/8" double-ended adapter in both situations, be it connecting one rod to another or connecting each rod to the Dado.
DPA 4061 ~ Line Audio CM3 ~ Naiant X-Q ~ AT 853  |  Naiant PFAs ~ Shure FP24  |  Zoom F6 ~ Sony PCM-M10
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Offline if_then_else

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2021, 07:30:13 AM »
I meant with a setup like audball's above...



I.e. only the rig rods with 3/8" connectors supported by a Rycote shock mount.

At some point, the weight of the mics (assuming a number of LDCs or heavier SDC mics like my Sojus 013s) and the rods will make this setup tip over (unless you've gaff-taped them into place or you're running some lightweight mics like actives or DPA 406x's).

This scenario is far less likely with the Dado as the center piece. (The downside is of course that you need more than just 1 shock mount).
« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 07:43:12 AM by if_then_else »

Offline audBall

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Re: Cool modular mic bar system...
« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2021, 04:09:34 PM »
^ All very true. This setup is fairly unique to my needs at the moment and that particular outing that day. Anything beyond what is shown in the field shot in my original post should be exercised with caution, tested repeatedly beforehand at home, and supported with the proper center attachment(s) for the weight distribution. It’s an evolving setup of sorts and was only posted as general guidance for others’ possibly DIY efforts, certainly not to copy outright. If I were running at greater heights, under windy conditions, or in a tightly packed FOB or other taping situation, I’d adjust this setup or use another mounting setup entirely, of which I have too many. :P

DO NOT RUN LDs WITH THIS SETUP!!!  This rig is more robust than what would be necessary for lavalier/tiny mics (it would definitely work!), but is perfectly adequate for SD/active situations as shown to a certain width / central support combination. I would not extend beyond ~50cm without additional or different central support for this setup. That dado-type ball is great and I may incorporate it in some way as well.

This thread is great and I’m really digging all the input and parts suggestions provided. Keep it up!
mg m20.21 ■ akg ck61.62.63 ■ nbob ■ aerco mp2 ■ v2
dpa 4061 ■ mma-a
m10 ■ d100 ■ r44ocm

 

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