Topic: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 3

[Gutbucket]

Thanks Noah!  Will be interesting to compare with rocksuitcase and kindms's OMT6 pull from the same night (I think).

[kindms]

Thanks Noah!  Will be interesting to compare with rocksuitcase and kindms's OMT6 pull from the same night (I think).

correct. we were about 7-10 ft behind Noah maybe a little less than that.

[Gutbucket]

Gotcha, thx.  Double posting my comment made in the rigpics thread earlier this morning over here to continue the discussion..

On the OMT mics: we ran the 6 channel OMT into a DR680 using kindms 426 in hypercard XY this night 65' as the center. then the akg ck22 omnis spread 120cm and akg ck61's aimed at 45'/PAS about 60cm apart equidistant from the middle. The ck22s went into a Grace V2, the c426 into a Grace V3, and the ck61's went used the 680's pre-amp.

Is this the first you guys have tried this particular 6ch OMT combination?  I suspect you are really going to like what the part I've bolded above adds to the coincident center and wide omnis.

[EmRR]

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=191953.msg2318816#msg2318816

The band was rehearsing at my studio before the gig, so I dropped the 3 channel horizontal B format array in the middle of them to experiment.  They were all facing each other in a circle. 

I settled on a 'best' stereo result, then enabled 3 more virtual mono patterns to get more mandolin, balance the kick drum out with the bass, and more of one of two electric guitars.  Those three have pretty heavy EQ (band-passed or LPF) and one is polarity reversed.    So many options you are easily confused. 

I can't get everything out of it, but pretty close.  Vocals were floor wedges only, and while there, are sorta equally in everything as a darker sounding background sound, can't really be pulled out. 


The gig had AB omni outriggers, and unfortunately, one of those reunion audiences that talked loudly the entire show.  I multi-tracked everything so can build a clean mix.   I'd have liked to use more room sound for realism, but not when it's audience talking!  Settling on a ambisonic pattern close to PAS short shotguns to minimize the crowd while getting some room feel.  I suppose if it was full ambisonic I'd try pointing it up at the ceiling for reverb bounce away from the crowd. 

[Gutbucket]

^ That's cool.  I'd originally planned to hang the TetraMic from the center of a 10' x10' pop-up canopy for circled up campsite jams at music fests, but never actually got around to doing it.  However, and somewhat similar to what you mention doing, for a few on-stage/stage-lip recordings I dialed up a couple additional virtual pattern channels to better balance things in addition to the primary stereo-pair output.  It made me quite aware of the limits of first order pattern tightness, but I didn't have the ability to synthesize shotgun-like greater than 1st order hyper directionality.

[Gutbucket]

I've been enjoying listening to the recent MSG Phish recordings during some late night work sessions this week, thanks guys!

[Gutbucket]

I was checking Don Keele's papers on his website to see what he's been up to recently..
https://www.keele-omholt-technologies.com/papers.php

..and had to grin when I looked through this one from 2016- Use of Ground-Plane Constant Beamwidth Transducer (CBT) Loudspeaker Line Arrays for Sound Reinforcement
https://www.keele-omholt-technologies.com/papers/Keele-CBT-Paper-11-Sept.-2016-Use-of-Ground-Plane-CBT-Arrays-for-Sound-Reinforcement.pdf

In which he suggests using CBT arrays behind the performers in a way strikingly similar to the Dead's classic Wall of Sound. I read through but found no mention of the Dead's pioneering PA work, though it seemed tantalizingly close when he mentioned how it could compensate for poor array coverage problems of a small concert he came across in San Francisco's Presidio in 2009 and includes a photo of the clustered point-source PA setup with KFOG banner across the back of the stage. 

Granted CBT is different in important ways from traditional linear arrays such as the WOS and similar related (ie non-DSP managed) smaller-scale Bose type line arrays. It stems from declassified sonar beamforming advances made in the late 1970s, and definitely qualifies as an oddball speaker technique.

[kuba e]

I was listening to the interesting Grateful Dead matrix . The matrix is from 3 sources, sbd + two aud. Little disadvantage of the matrix is a less clarity. But it has great depth, the third dimension. I love how it is sounding. It remains me OMT with back pointed mics. We are trying to achieve the same effect.
https://archive.org/details/gd1991-06-09.128299.mtx.dusborne.flac16

[heathen]

I recorded a show on Friday (Mike Dillon Band) with XY Sennheiser e614s (supercards) and wide-spaced omnis (DPA 4061s).  The Sennheisers picked up more direct sound and less of the crowd, so I decided to primarily use those.  The DPAs definitely picked up more of the bass, though, so I ended up doing a pretty drastic LPF before mixing in the DPAs.  Once they were all mixed together, the bass seems to have more stereo spread than the rest of the frequency range (the LPF was high enough that some of the sound can be localized).  I'm hoping  to have it all ready to share soonish.

[rocksuitcase]

I recorded a show on Friday (Mike Dillon Band) with XY Sennheiser e614s (supercards) and wide-spaced omnis (DPA 4061s).  The Sennheisers picked up more direct sound and less of the crowd, so I decided to primarily use those.  The DPAs definitely picked up more of the bass, though, so I ended up doing a pretty drastic LPF before mixing in the DPAs.  Once they were all mixed together, the bass seems to have more stereo spread than the rest of the frequency range (the LPF was high enough that some of the sound can be localized).  I'm hoping  to have it all ready to share soonish.

\Oooh, can;t wait. Mike Dillon rocks! and any members of his band are typically talented as hell.

[heathen]

I recorded a show on Friday (Mike Dillon Band) with XY Sennheiser e614s (supercards) and wide-spaced omnis (DPA 4061s).  The Sennheisers picked up more direct sound and less of the crowd, so I decided to primarily use those.  The DPAs definitely picked up more of the bass, though, so I ended up doing a pretty drastic LPF before mixing in the DPAs.  Once they were all mixed together, the bass seems to have more stereo spread than the rest of the frequency range (the LPF was high enough that some of the sound can be localized).  I'm hoping  to have it all ready to share soonish.

\Oooh, can;t wait. Mike Dillon rocks! and any members of his band are typically talented as hell.

He had Norwood Fisher from Fishbone on bass.  Unfortunately the sbd feed was a big fail and the mix in the room wasn't fantastic, but hey them's the breaks.

[heathen]

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=193311.0

I'm curious what you guys think of this.  I'll reserve my own opinions for the time being.

[EmRR]

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=193311.0

I'm curious what you guys think of this.  I'll reserve my own opinions for the time being.

No major complaints, seems like a pretty clear room representation. 

[EmRR]

Trying the same horizontal Ambisonic with AB again, AB120 this time (wider), and an added coincident shotgun.  Sure glad I played with LEGO's as a kid.

[Gutbucket]

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=193311.0

I'm curious what you guys think of this.  I'll reserve my own opinions for the time being.

Sounds to me like a clear representation of a somewhat difficult room / PA mix, with early reflection energy cluttering direct sound first arrival.   In assessing that I sort of compare the portrayal of audience generated sounds dispersed throughout the room and the decay of the room sound itself, in contrast with the sound from the band through the PA.