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Author Topic: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?  (Read 1912 times)

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Offline one8ung

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12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« on: March 07, 2021, 08:20:45 AM »
Can I use a SP-SPSB-10 to power Schoeps microphones?
Mics: DPA 4061 - OKM II - SP-CMC-4U (AT853)

Power: A3 - SP-SPSB-10

Recorders: Marantz PMD620 - Tascam DR-2d (2x) - Tascam DR-08

Offline DSatz

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2021, 08:38:42 AM »
I can't readily find out what circuitry is in the Sound Professionals module, but it almost certainly doesn't provide standard 12-Volt phantom powering for professional condenser microphones, or the company would surely say so. It seems instead to be made for unbalanced electret microphones only.

Another clue is that the type of battery that they sell for it wouldn't last very long powering a professional condenser microphone. So I really don't think so.

If this module did provide standard 12-Volt phantom powering, that would work with many types of Schoeps microphones--all "Colette-series" microphones that use CMC 1, CMC 3 or CMC 6 amplifiers, or the CCM series of compact (non-modular) microphones--but not others that they've made in the past, such as the CMC 4 and 5.

--best regards
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 08:48:17 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline Sebastian

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2021, 08:49:00 AM »
Why don't you tell us which mics you're trying to run and we'll tell you the best way to power them? ;)

Offline one8ung

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2021, 08:50:29 AM »
Am orientating for a CCM41 stereo set
Mics: DPA 4061 - OKM II - SP-CMC-4U (AT853)

Power: A3 - SP-SPSB-10

Recorders: Marantz PMD620 - Tascam DR-2d (2x) - Tascam DR-08

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2021, 08:51:11 AM »
sound professionals site confuses me... i cant seem to get to their battery box page. i do beleive they offer a 3-wire battery box with power on a separate lead, which would work to power schoeps CMR preamps when used with a 9V battery. if not, they are not difficult to build. just a 9V battery, capacitor, and resistor in the circuit

nevermind the above if youre set on CCM series - they require true phantom power. The easiest way to do this is a recorder which has it on its inputs, of which there are many small-ish options to fit all sorts of budgets, from a Tascam DR40 to a sonosax SX-M2D2 with all kinds in between
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 08:54:49 AM by jerryfreak »
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Offline one8ung

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2021, 08:59:08 AM »
I have a 4-track Tascam DR-2d recorder to run mics + IEM so I don't want to run a 2-track recorder.

My plan B is a CMC-1/MK41 combo, does it make any difference?
Mics: DPA 4061 - OKM II - SP-CMC-4U (AT853)

Power: A3 - SP-SPSB-10

Recorders: Marantz PMD620 - Tascam DR-2d (2x) - Tascam DR-08

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2021, 09:02:30 AM »
cmc1 is a little more efficient on power but still requires phantom.

there are also stand alone phantom power supplies out there

sounds like you want to do  >:D , if you havent bought the mics yet, the smallest solutions are
CMR w/battery box
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Offline DSatz

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2021, 09:06:28 AM »
CMC 1 + capsule approach can be clearly recommended over the CCM. It's less expensive, draws about half as much current for equal or better performance, rejects RFI better, and most of all it's modular--if you decide later on that you want to try a different microphone pattern, you only need to get new capsules, not complete microphones.
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2021, 09:07:30 AM »
CMC 1 + capsule approach can be clearly recommended over the CCM. It's less expensive, draws less current for equal or better performance, rejects RFI better, and most of all it's modular--if you decide later on that you want to try a different microphone pattern, you only need to get new capsules, not complete microphones.
arent these due to come out in lemo version soon?
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Offline one8ung

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2021, 09:08:40 AM »
CMC 1 + capsule approach can be clearly recommended over the CCM. It's less expensive, draws less current for equal or better performance, rejects RFI better, and most of all it's modular--if you decide later on that you want to try a different microphone pattern, you only need to get new capsules, not complete microphones.
arent these due to come out in lemo version soon?

Yes... It's the CMC 1 L
Mics: DPA 4061 - OKM II - SP-CMC-4U (AT853)

Power: A3 - SP-SPSB-10

Recorders: Marantz PMD620 - Tascam DR-2d (2x) - Tascam DR-08

Offline Sebastian

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2021, 09:38:22 AM »
arent these due to come out in lemo version soon?

Lemo version is out already. The fixed cable version is the one that was initially announced for January and that has yet to see the light of day.

From a technical perspective, the best option would be a CMC 1 L (or other variant of the CMC 1) plus capsule into a phantom power supply (or recorder). The CMC 1, like all other Schoeps CMC and CCM mics, outputs a true balanced signal, which is great at rejecting RFI.

More "stealthable" approaches would be the ones jerryfreak mentioned. Capsules, active cables and a battery-powered supply built specifically for active Schoeps mics. However, all of these have a non-balanced signal and therefore are not as immune to RFI. However, this is what most people here are running and most of the time this is not a problem.

Edit: Like DSatz already said, it doesn't really make sense to get CCMs these days. The CMC1s + capsules are the same size and more versatile.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 09:47:29 AM by Sebastian »

Offline one8ung

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2021, 10:49:27 AM »
What about the CMBI?
Mics: DPA 4061 - OKM II - SP-CMC-4U (AT853)

Power: A3 - SP-SPSB-10

Recorders: Marantz PMD620 - Tascam DR-2d (2x) - Tascam DR-08

Offline Sebastian

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2021, 11:04:41 AM »
What about the CMBI?

I actually own a pair. They're nice and run on a small 6V battery for 60-80 hours. However, they're full-sized mics. And as such, they're quite different from the small CCMs you were initially looking at. They're a good choice for open taping, I guess. The signal from mic to recorder is unbalanced.

Offline ero3030

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2021, 11:51:47 AM »
Am orientating for a CCM41 stereo set
U r going to spend 3k + and don't know how to power them?
Crazy
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Offline beatkilla

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2021, 12:03:26 PM »
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 12:12:14 PM by beatkilla »

Offline one8ung

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2021, 12:19:14 PM »
Am orientating for a CCM41 stereo set
U r going to spend 3k + and don't know how to power them?
Crazy

I woke up this morning with the idea of giving this corona crisis a positive spin and decided to spend my saved money on my hobby.

No, I don't know how to feed them so opened this thread and got a lot of helpful comments.
Mics: DPA 4061 - OKM II - SP-CMC-4U (AT853)

Power: A3 - SP-SPSB-10

Recorders: Marantz PMD620 - Tascam DR-2d (2x) - Tascam DR-08

Offline ero3030

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2021, 04:53:05 PM »
Ok, sorry I jumped on ya, but asking about a SP batt box to power ccm41's?  Thats.....  lots on this board.  I've seen u round here.  U have to know about phantom, pfa's, nbox, etc.  It's all over here on powering a bunch of different makers caps"active "style .  And ccm's, doesn't get much easier than them.  Good luck
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Offline one8ung

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2021, 05:34:13 PM »
Crazy question doesn’t exsist, it’s crazy not to ask if you don’t know.
Mics: DPA 4061 - OKM II - SP-CMC-4U (AT853)

Power: A3 - SP-SPSB-10

Recorders: Marantz PMD620 - Tascam DR-2d (2x) - Tascam DR-08

Offline DSatz

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2021, 08:47:43 PM »
one8ung, I completely agree.

In professional audio by now, there's only one standard powering system any more ("phantom"); it's defined for 48V and for 12V. A microphone can support either one or both. If a preamp or recorder says it has one or both built in, but it fails to work with a microphone that conforms to the standard, then the preamp or recorder maker gets a bad reputation, so they try to avoid that.

That's exactly how standards are supposed to work. Expectations for reliable "interoperation" of equipment from different manufacturers are high, though the equipment prices are correspondingly high as well. You're basically paying for the negative experiences that you _don't_ have to go through, that could cost you your job, since so many professional sound recordists are freelancers. In the professional realm, conformance to standards--playing well with others--is part of how a brand's reputation is established.

In the consumer world there are standards, too, but a whole lot of improvising and adapting and freelancing also goes on. Not just around the margins; some major consumer brands assert themselves by "setting standards of their own" as a conscious marketing strategy.

"Plug-in powering" for electret microphones is a huge example of this. About a year ago I bought a Sony lavalier mike (electret with plug-in powering) but found that it wouldn't work with another piece of equipment that also said it had plug-in powering (same voltage range). I returned the mike, and the store took it back without question; the problem wasn't new to them. Plug-in powering from brand "A" doesn't necessarily equal plug-in powering from brand "B" or even from another division of brand "A"--not even for the same voltage range; the plugs and sockets can be wired in conflicting ways.

Given how critical microphones are to recording, and how critical powering is to microphones, yes, definitely ask as many questions as you have--ask them twice, if that's what it takes to get answers you can rely on.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 12:15:34 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline gormenghast

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2021, 05:20:14 PM »
Am orientating for a CCM41 stereo set
U r going to spend 3k + and don't know how to power them?
Crazy

Hey, we all had to start somewhere.  I just learned something today by one8ung asking about how to power his mics.  Never even heard of the CMC1's.
A lot of people run a race to see who is the fastest. I run to see who has the most guts, who can punish himself into exhausting pace, and then at the end, punish himself even more.

Offline daspyknows

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2021, 07:02:51 PM »
Welcome to Team Schoeps one8ung.  That's what was missed from this thread.

Offline DSatz

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2021, 09:58:29 AM »
gormenghast (and anyone else unfamiliar with the CMC 1), please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7IPridYbgg . The video shows the original XLR version.

Since then, the even smaller Lemo version (one inch, one ounce) has also become available. It makes the CCM series into a niche product in my opinion--and for newcomers to the modular system, I think it will also elbow aside the Colette active accessories to a great extent (snif). There's a video that introduces the CMC 1 L among other topics on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ai_FuIENSA .

By the way, the big old CM 50/2 tube microphone shown for size comparison in that video (around 12:30) had to be shrunk 10% to fit it onto the slide, so the contrast is even greater in reality. Plus the photo shows only the CMV 50 amplifier, not the complete microphone--which was about two inches taller with its CM 50/6 capsule attached. Back then you could have any pattern that you wanted, as long as it was omni ...
« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 12:03:00 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline dactylus

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2021, 10:50:10 AM »
^
Thank you for the CMC 1 L update DSatz!

hot licks > microphones > recorder



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Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2021, 12:31:50 PM »


Since then, the even smaller Lemo version (one inch, one ounce) has also become available. It makes the CCM series into a niche product in my opinion--and for newcomers to the modular system, I think it will also elbow aside the Colette active accessories to a great extent (snif). There's a video that introduces the CMC 1 L among other topics on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ai_FuIENSA .




Has anyone gotten to see the CMC1 K announced for early 2021?  This looks a bit smaller even than the L version, but with attached cable rather than lemo connector.

Jeff

Offline ero3030

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2021, 12:39:10 PM »


Since then, the even smaller Lemo version (one inch, one ounce) has also become available. It makes the CCM series into a niche product in my opinion--and for newcomers to the modular system, I think it will also elbow aside the Colette active accessories to a great extent (snif). There's a video that introduces the CMC 1 L among other topics on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ai_FuIENSA .




Has anyone gotten to see the CMC1 K announced for early 2021?  This looks a bit smaller even than the L version, but with attached cable rather than lemo connector.

Jeff
Cmc1 k.  Just like B9audio.  Who's knocking off who!!?? Lol
The cmc1L is slick, but lemo cables will be needed.  Ed
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Offline dactylus

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2021, 01:04:17 PM »


Since then, the even smaller Lemo version (one inch, one ounce) has also become available. It makes the CCM series into a niche product in my opinion--and for newcomers to the modular system, I think it will also elbow aside the Colette active accessories to a great extent (snif). There's a video that introduces the CMC 1 L among other topics on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ai_FuIENSA .




Has anyone gotten to see the CMC1 K announced for early 2021?  This looks a bit smaller even than the L version, but with attached cable rather than lemo connector.

Jeff
Cmc1 k.  Just like B9audio.  Who's knocking off who!!?? Lol
The cmc1L is slick, but lemo cables will be needed.  Ed

^
The lemo cable is included with the cmc 1 L.

https://schoeps.de/en/products/colette/microphone-amplifiers/cmc-1-l.html

K 5 LU (5 m cable with XLR-3M plug) and SGC stand adapter are included


« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 01:09:28 PM by dactylus »
hot licks > microphones > recorder



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Offline ero3030

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2021, 01:25:15 PM »


Since then, the even smaller Lemo version (one inch, one ounce) has also become available. It makes the CCM series into a niche product in my opinion--and for newcomers to the modular system, I think it will also elbow aside the Colette active accessories to a great extent (snif). There's a video that introduces the CMC 1 L among other topics on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ai_FuIENSA .




Has anyone gotten to see the CMC1 K announced for early 2021?  This looks a bit smaller even than the L version, but with attached cable rather than lemo connector.

Jeff
Cmc1 k.  Just like B9audio.  Who's knocking off who!!?? Lol
The cmc1L is slick, but lemo cables will be needed.  Ed

^
The lemo cable is included with the cmc 1 L.

https://schoeps.de/en/products/colette/microphone-amplifiers/cmc-1-l.html

K 5 LU (5 m cable with XLR-3M plug) and SGC stand adapter are included
Very cool.  A modular phantom powered kcy!!  Dig it!  Any need for the CCM line?? Bit outdated now
needin some fishhead music!

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Offline ero3030

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Re: 12 volts on Schoeps microphones?
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2021, 01:45:00 PM »
Cmc1L or cmc1K the smart upgrade for PFA only  users, IMO
needin some fishhead music!

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