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Author Topic: Stealth low-sensitivity setup from scratch  (Read 3061 times)

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Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Stealth low-sensitivity setup from scratch
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2021, 01:00:44 PM »
I’m not sure the h4n is a great stealth deck. Looks very bulky and obvious to me... something with a form factor closer to a Sony m10 or a10 would probably make more sense

The A10 is crazy small and controllable over Bluetooth on a phone app, which has been a game-changer for me, since it can just sit in my pocket, in a bag, on a ledge, wherever, and I never have to touch it for the course of a show.

I've been thinking about making the jump from M10 > A10 for a while. Only concern is it's more obviously a recorder (the built in mics are way more obvious than on the M10)
Mics: Berliner CM-33, CA-14 card, CA-11 card & omni, AT-853, Sony ECM-907
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-05, Sony Hi-MD

Offline beatkilla

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Re: Stealth low-sensitivity setup from scratch
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2021, 01:39:41 PM »
This is what i would recommend but you may find something here in the Yard Sale if you ask.


https://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-4U    (make sure to get the Low Sensitivity option you absolutely need it)

https://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-8-MKII ( you also will need a battery box)

Or post an ISO in yard sale.

Also would skip the zoom and get a Sony PCM-M10(or A10) Tascam DR-2d,Marantz PMD 620

Good luck
« Last Edit: August 10, 2021, 01:41:30 PM by beatkilla »

Offline dyneq

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Re: Stealth low-sensitivity setup from scratch
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2021, 01:52:25 PM »
The recommendations you've received so far are solid, but way over your budget. You may get lucky and stay within your budget by finding everything in used working condition for reasonable prices. However, I think you'll need to save up more cash, change your requirements, or get creative (build your own mics and/or battery box).


Online nulldogmas

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Re: Stealth low-sensitivity setup from scratch
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2021, 02:15:29 PM »
The recommendations you've received so far are solid, but way over your budget. You may get lucky and stay within your budget by finding everything in used working condition for reasonable prices. However, I think you'll need to save up more cash, change your requirements, or get creative (build your own mics and/or battery box).

Or use a cheap recorder to start out. Even an old iRiver or something should do fine when coupled with decent mics and a battery box. (Those are limited to 16-bit, so you'd have to pay more attention to setting optimal recording levels, but that's not the worst thing in the world.)

Offline dyneq

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Re: Stealth low-sensitivity setup from scratch
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2021, 02:52:46 PM »
The recommendations you've received so far are solid, but way over your budget. You may get lucky and stay within your budget by finding everything in used working condition for reasonable prices. However, I think you'll need to save up more cash, change your requirements, or get creative (build your own mics and/or battery box).

Or use a cheap recorder to start out. Even an old iRiver or something should do fine when coupled with decent mics and a battery box. (Those are limited to 16-bit, so you'd have to pay more attention to setting optimal recording levels, but that's not the worst thing in the world.)
Good point. I would also like to recommend CA-14 cards > UBB as less expensive alternatives to the existing recommendations. I have recorded some very loud metal with that setup and the recordings sound great.

Online nulldogmas

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Re: Stealth low-sensitivity setup from scratch
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2021, 03:09:25 PM »

I would also like to recommend CA-14 cards > UBB as less expensive alternatives to the existing recommendations. I have recorded some very loud metal with that setup and the recordings sound great.

Agreed for sound quality, and the price is right. The "between six weeks and forever" shipping time can be a bit of a holdup. (And CA-14s are less likely to show up in good shape used because they're more fragile — if anyone wants to try doing surgery on one to fix busted wires, I have a couple of sets moldering in a drawer.)

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Stealth low-sensitivity setup from scratch
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2021, 05:29:20 PM »
The recommendations you've received so far are solid, but way over your budget. You may get lucky and stay within your budget by finding everything in used working condition for reasonable prices. However, I think you'll need to save up more cash, change your requirements, or get creative (build your own mics and/or battery box).

I bought my first rig (AT853/Battery box/Tascam deck) for right about $300 using the yard sale. Definitely doable if there isn't a time crunch
Mics: Berliner CM-33, CA-14 card, CA-11 card & omni, AT-853, Sony ECM-907
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-05, Sony Hi-MD

Offline Emskidoodlepip

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Re: Stealth low-sensitivity setup from scratch
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2021, 05:30:38 PM »
Thank you so much, all—your friendly advice has helped me tonnes and I've definitely learned a lot from what people have said. I think that I've decided to take your advice and wait a little bit to save some extra money and use that to buy SP-CMC-4U (low-sense) > SP-SPSB-8-MKII > Sony A10 as a complete setup. It looks stealthable, great quality, and should have SPL that can handle the sometimes admittedly extreme volume of some shows I see. It's a shame that the SP products are going to cost a fortune in shipping and customs, and that in the U.K. the A10 seems to be quite a bit dearer than it is across the pond—so I might at least try the recommended ISO route, too.  :)

Quote
https://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-8-MKII ( you also will need a battery box)

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding, but: I thought that the SP-SPSB-8-MKII was a battery box in itself? Are you saying that that's just a 9V adapter that merely allows the U853s to take that phantom power?

Offline beatkilla

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Re: Stealth low-sensitivity setup from scratch
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2021, 06:47:01 PM »
Thank you so much, all—your friendly advice has helped me tonnes and I've definitely learned a lot from what people have said. I think that I've decided to take your advice and wait a little bit to save some extra money and use that to buy SP-CMC-4U (low-sense) > SP-SPSB-8-MKII > Sony A10 as a complete setup. It looks stealthable, great quality, and should have SPL that can handle the sometimes admittedly extreme volume of some shows I see. It's a shame that the SP products are going to cost a fortune in shipping and customs, and that in the U.K. the A10 seems to be quite a bit dearer than it is across the pond—so I might at least try the recommended ISO route, too.  :)

Quote
https://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-8-MKII ( you also will need a battery box)

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding, but: I thought that the SP-SPSB-8-MKII was a battery box in itself? Are you saying that that's just a 9V adapter that merely allows the U853s to take that phantom power?


I should have wrote that backwards.....correct the SP-SPSB-8-MKII is the battery box i was referring to.

Offline dallman

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Re: Stealth low-sensitivity setup from scratch
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2021, 11:22:01 PM »
I am just reading this thread and am I the only one who thinks the choice of a Sony A10 is wrong for this setup? I have one and generally speaking it runs hot. If we are talking about really loud shows why a deck that runs hot? A Marantz PMD 620MKII (or MKI) is much better as is a Tascam DR2d if it can be found. Even the Roland R07 runs less hot than the Sony. There are other less popular brands too that are good choices. The Sony M10 is better too, but seems to be selling at a price beyond it value right now. I have and use all the decks mentioned, so I am not speculating, just trying to mention there may be better choices for the OP.
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Online nulldogmas

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Re: Stealth low-sensitivity setup from scratch
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2021, 11:58:56 PM »
I haven't found the A10 to run hot when set to Audio In. Not that I've tried it for extremely loud shows yet, but overall it seems to have about the same level range as the M10.

Offline capnhook

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Re: Stealth low-sensitivity setup from scratch
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2021, 08:01:03 AM »
I am just reading this thread and am I the only one who thinks the choice of a Sony A10 is wrong for this setup? I have one and generally speaking it runs hot. If we are talking about really loud shows why a deck that runs hot? A Marantz PMD 620MKII (or MKI) is much better as is a Tascam DR2d if it can be found. Even the Roland R07 runs less hot than the Sony. There are other less popular brands too that are good choices. The Sony M10 is better too, but seems to be selling at a price beyond it value right now. I have and use all the decks mentioned, so I am not speculating, just trying to mention there may be better choices for the OP.

Have you tried inserting an attenuator cable on the input?  Cheap fix for your hot levels.  Len can make you one.  I use the 20dB style.

https://www.core-sound.com/products/attenuator-cables


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Offline daspyknows

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Re: Stealth low-sensitivity setup from scratch
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2021, 11:26:30 AM »
I am just reading this thread and am I the only one who thinks the choice of a Sony A10 is wrong for this setup? I have one and generally speaking it runs hot. If we are talking about really loud shows why a deck that runs hot? A Marantz PMD 620MKII (or MKI) is much better as is a Tascam DR2d if it can be found. Even the Roland R07 runs less hot than the Sony. There are other less popular brands too that are good choices. The Sony M10 is better too, but seems to be selling at a price beyond it value right now. I have and use all the decks mentioned, so I am not speculating, just trying to mention there may be better choices for the OP.

I have a bunch of Tascam DR-2D's.  You can find them regularly on EBay for $60 to $100.  I t is a great stealth recorder albeit without the latest bells and whistles.

Offline dallman

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Re: Stealth low-sensitivity setup from scratch
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2021, 12:34:36 AM »


Have you tried inserting an attenuator cable on the input?  Cheap fix for your hot levels.  Len can make you one.  I use the 20dB style.

https://www.core-sound.com/products/attenuator-cables


[/quote]
I have attenuators, but for the above situation, why choose a deck that runs hot when the OP is looking for a system to record very loud shows? There are better choices. The A10 is not the M10 in quality or performance.
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Offline DSatz

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Re: Stealth low-sensitivity setup from scratch
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2021, 04:42:09 AM »
In addition, an attenuator of this kind is only a solution for overload in a preamp or recorder's input circuitry. It's no solution at all if the sound pressure overloads the microphones.

On the other hand, attenuators are a great, low-cost way of figuring out where overload is occurring and what to do about it. If your setup gets a lot of distortion on the loudest sounds, then as a test, try using attenuators. If the distortion goes away, the input circuit of your preamp or recorder was being overloaded, and the attenuators should be left in place; you've got the best solution right there. But if substantial distortion remains, even with the attenuators in place, then look at the microphones and their method of powering. (This assumes that your highest recording levels are below 0 dB, of course.)
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

 

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