Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: What to do with Mono soundboard used as bulk of mix?  (Read 1009 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline wforwumbo

  • (6)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 148
Re: What to do with Mono soundboard used as bulk of mix?
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2021, 10:42:40 PM »
Aligning two source recordings is also important if you plan on processing the channels independently - equalization being an important one. If your recordings are not aligned, and you try to eq anything (either independent sources or the master) you’ll be constantly fighting an uphill battle. Sure many DAWs have plug in group delay compensation but that’s still fighting a losing battle if your sources aren’t aligned to start.

For most of the other points, phase delays are not always constant across frequency. Sure there is some wiggle room from environmental factors, but they’re not linear across frequency and our brains have ways of processing and filtering the information posthaste. The digital processing side of things offers a layer of control that benefits greatly from phase alignment.

It’s not just about combing, it’s also about a psychoacoustic phenomenon called…

… our hearing can tolerate a shift of up to about 20-25 ms. Our brain does not distinguish it and takes it as one sound. When the shift is greater, our brain processes it as two separate sounds. When we are out of this range, the matrix will sound unphased. I don't think there will be significant comb filtering. Sbd and aud are different enough signals. But for our hearing it will be confusing. It will sound like an echo, losing clarity and precision.

In my experience, when sbd is slightly shifted forward in front of the aud, the sbd is more pronounced in the mix and the aud is more in the background. And conversely. It's like changing the levels of sbd and aud, but it has a slightly different sound effect. These are delicate things

… the precedence effect. Also called the law of first wavefront, the way your brain fuses auditory information from delayed signals can get very confusing. What’s posted in the quote is a hand wave, but a very practical manifestation of the precedence effect.

It honestly is not too hard to get your sources lined up, even if you don’t feel your ears are dialed in. Most DAWs come with a sample delay and a corellation meter (and some even come with gonioneters), this process takes maybe all of 5 minutes once you become comfortable with the tools and your ears learn to adjust and identify the shifts.
North Jersey native, Upstate veteran, proud Texan

2x Schoeps mk2
2x Schoeps mk21
2x Schoeps mk4
2x Schoeps mk41v
1x Schoeps ccm8

Grace Lunatec V3
2x Schoeps cmc5
2x Schoeps KC5
2x Nbob KCY
2x Naiant PFA

Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Offline kuba e

  • Site Supporter
  • (1)
  • Taperssection Member
  • *
  • Posts: 408
  • Gender: Male
Re: What to do with Mono soundboard used as bulk of mix?
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2021, 03:07:47 PM »
I remember doing one recording sbd + aud (hyper, din, in the middle of the room). I aligned the first version exactly according to the waveform and my listening. In the second version, I delayed sbd by 10 ms (maybe a little less, I don't remember it well). My friend, who has perfect hearing and good monitors, confirmed that the second version is better. The sbd didn't sound good, and by delaying it, it fell into the aud. It was not a significant change but it was positive. And when I tried to just turn down the levels of the sbd, it didn't have the same good effect.

I think the same as Morst, there is a certain possible range for syncing sbd and aud. From what I was listening, most of the matrixes came to me well done. I've heard a bad sync on a few recordings. Perhaps some instruments may be sensitive to just minimal unsync, such as cymbals? I'm not sensitive to it and I hope most people will overlook it as well. In addition, much can be forgiven in a live recording if it does not significantly interfere.

I also think comb filtering is negligible when mixing aud and sbd. Theoreticaly, if we mix onstage mics 1m spacing and sbd, we would get into problems for 350hz (wavelength 1m) and higher. But I have not encountered these problems. I think sbd and aud are enough different signals. Maybe I got it wrong. Why should there be a problem with equalization?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 04:21:55 PM by kuba e »

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.024 seconds with 26 queries.
© 2002-2021 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF