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Author Topic: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree  (Read 16566 times)

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Offline wbrisette

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24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« on: January 24, 2005, 06:15:33 AM »
I finally have the 24/48 vs. 24/96 DVDs ready for comparison. Maynard is on top of the list for the discs, I got some other PM for them, but I wanted to get these into an orderly list, so if you want to listen for yourself, then put your name on this thread.

Kind of as a recap, these are discs that were created using the following:

Earthworks QTC-1 on stage, clamped to the micrphone stands of the performers. (had 1 mSec delay on the input to sync correctly with the mics at stage lip)
Earthworks SR-77 at stage lip.

These were then put straight into the Zaxcom Deva IV either at 24/48 or 24/96.

The band is called Cooper's Uncle and they are a local (Austin, TX) bluegrass outfit. These shows were both done the same way, at the same venue, but 1 week apart.

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

Offline JasonSobel

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2005, 08:18:24 AM »
I'd like to check out this comparison for sure.  thanks Wayne.

Offline heath

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2005, 09:18:50 AM »
would definitely like to hear these as well!

h
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Offline BJ

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2005, 03:39:46 PM »
I would like to hear these also....thanx for starting the tree!
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2005, 08:16:09 PM »
When we first talked about this we mentioned a vine.  So if someone wants these, please post that you do or don't have the ability to make copies for people.  I'll take a couple people for B&P and pass along the master copy to someone who can also take a couple B&P as they pass through their hands if thats cool.  mmmm-kay kids?


michael
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Offline heath

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2005, 08:47:12 PM »
When we first talked about this we mentioned a vine.  So if someone wants these, please post that you do or don't have the ability to make copies for people.  I'll take a couple people for B&P and pass along the master copy to someone who can also take a couple B&P as they pass through their hands if thats cool.  mmmm-kay kids?


michael

Sounds good to me.  I can handle a few folks as well for copies.   ;D
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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2005, 09:33:58 PM »

When we first talked about this we mentioned a vine.  So if someone wants these, please post that you do or don't have the ability to make copies for people.  I'll take a couple people for B&P and pass along the master copy to someone who can also take a couple B&P as they pass through their hands if thats cool.  mmmm-kay kids?

michael

well, I have a DVD-burner, and I've burned plenty of DVD-audio discs with discwelder bronze, but, are these discs starting out as DVD-A's?  what software do you use to copy those files back to .wav?  or is that even a necessary step when copying DVD-A to DVD-A?  if it's real simple, then I could burn for other folks, otherwise, at this point, it would be great if someone burned it for me...

Offline wbrisette

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2005, 09:41:47 PM »

well, I have a DVD-burner, and I've burned plenty of DVD-audio discs with discwelder bronze, but, are these discs starting out as DVD-A's?  what software do you use to copy those files back to .wav?  or is that even a necessary step when copying DVD-A to DVD-A?  if it's real simple, then I could burn for other folks, otherwise, at this point, it would be great if someone burned it for me...

These are starting out life as DVD-A discs. I use a Mac, so I'm not sure how you do it on a PC, but I simply make a disc Image of the disc (since there is no copy protection on it) with Apple's Disc Utility. It's far easier to do that than burn multiple copies via DiscWelder.

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2005, 09:42:39 PM »
well, I have a DVD-burner, and I've burned plenty of DVD-audio discs with discwelder bronze, but, are these discs starting out as DVD-A's?  what software do you use to copy those files back to .wav?  or is that even a necessary step when copying DVD-A to DVD-A?  if it's real simple, then I could burn for other folks, otherwise, at this point, it would be great if someone burned it for me...

For a PC, download DVD-decryptor, it will allow you to extract the DVDA content as a disk image onto HD and then write out the image to blank media.  No authoring or wav extraction required.  Just like EAC for CDRs.


For Linux, xcdroast will do it for you.
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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2005, 07:55:20 AM »
Quote
For a PC, download DVD-decryptor, it will allow you to extract the DVDA content as a disk image onto HD and then write out the image to blank media.  No authoring or wav extraction required.  Just like EAC for CDRs.

ok, I've already got DVD-decryptor, so I guess I'm all set, and I can burn for others, if needed.  I haven't had to copy of DVDA yet, because I keep all the 24-bit FLAC's archived anyway.  just didn't realize it copies DVD-A's as well :)

this is probably a question for another discussion, but I'm just wondering, is there some loss involved with this.  sort of like if EAC isn't configured properly?  is it better to burn from original .wav (decompressed from a FLAC)?  or does it not matter?

Offline wbrisette

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2005, 09:58:31 AM »
These are starting out life as DVD-A discs. I use a Mac, so I'm not sure how you do it on a PC, but I simply make a disc Image of the disc (since there is no copy protection on it) with Apple's Disc Utility. It's far easier to do that than burn multiple copies via DiscWelder.

I've changed my mind. These are no longer going to be DVD-A discs. After a bout of emails with Minnetonka software, I've come to the conclusion that DiscWelder for Mac OS X is simply not ready for prime time. I'm having a huge problem getting one of my DVR drives to be recognized, and I can't get more than 1 out of 10 burns of any brand of DVD media to work. So, I'm going back to the basics and I'm going to burn these as Video DVD discs with just the audio track.

FYI, The folks at Minnetonka have been really nice, but they are totally clueless on certain things. A big chunk of their software is based on some licensed code from Gear, this is the part I think they are having problems with because they have sent my issue to gear to be resolved and told me that they have seen similar issues in their testing. Why they don't simply hand certain things off to Apple's API's (other than trying to keep the code-base between the PC and Mac similar) is beyond me.

If this is going to cause problems, let me know! I'm shipping the discs off tomorrow (I was trying to get two good discs all night last night without any luck).

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

Offline BJ

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2005, 10:25:10 AM »
I am ordering a dvd rw from newegg, but waiting on my next paycheck, So I have no burning capabilities as of yet.  If someone would do a BnP, I would gladly send the disc that way, OR, you can put me at the end of the vine, and hopefully I will have my burner by then.(damn i hate being poor!!  :P)
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Offline wbrisette

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2005, 10:38:43 AM »
I am ordering a dvd rw from newegg, but waiting on my next paycheck, So I have no burning capabilities as of yet.  If someone would do a BnP, I would gladly send the disc that way, OR, you can put me at the end of the vine, and hopefully I will have my burner by then.(damn i hate being poor!!  :P)

No sweat. Drop me a PM and I'll send you a set of discs gratis.

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

Offline heath

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2005, 10:48:09 AM »

So, I'm going back to the basics and I'm going to burn these as Video DVD discs with just the audio track.



Wayne

Wayne... is it simple to get the audio files off of a video dvd disc?  What I would like to do is just import the files into my daw and bring them both into the console so I can have them playing simultaneously and just a/b with mutes.  thanks.

heath
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2005, 11:24:30 AM »
ok, I've already got DVD-decryptor, so I guess I'm all set, and I can burn for others, if needed.  I haven't had to copy of DVDA yet, because I keep all the 24-bit FLAC's archived anyway.  just didn't realize it copies DVD-A's as well :)

this is probably a question for another discussion, but I'm just wondering, is there some loss involved with this.  sort of like if EAC isn't configured properly?  is it better to burn from original .wav (decompressed from a FLAC)?  or does it not matter?

When extracting the image, there is no interpretation of the underlying data structures. so DVDA/DVDV/DVD data, it does not matter.  Also, there is no loss.  DVD-decryptor can extract the ISO image, which is just the data format image of the authored DVD. 






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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2005, 01:24:33 PM »
Quote
When extracting the image, there is no interpretation of the underlying data structures. so DVDA/DVDV/DVD data, it does not matter.  Also, there is no loss.  DVD-decryptor can extract the ISO image, which is just the data format image of the authored DVD.

thanks for info.  very helpful :)  +T

Offline BJ

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2005, 09:59:46 AM »
I am ordering a dvd rw from newegg, but waiting on my next paycheck, So I have no burning capabilities as of yet.  If someone would do a BnP, I would gladly send the disc that way, OR, you can put me at the end of the vine, and hopefully I will have my burner by then.(damn i hate being poor!!  :P)

No sweat. Drop me a PM and I'll send you a set of discs gratis.

Wayne

+T..muchas gracias...
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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2005, 01:07:35 AM »
Can I get in on the distro of this ?
DVD-a , DVD-v, DVD+/-R with PCM .wav, whatever.
Happy to send blanks.....

-Bob

Offline wbrisette

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2005, 04:58:03 AM »
Can I get in on the distro of this ?
DVD-a , DVD-v, DVD+/-R with PCM .wav, whatever.
Happy to send blanks.....

-Bob

Here is the vine as it stands now:

1. Maynard (DVD-A discs are in the mail)
2. JasonSobel
3. Heath
4. Ohm

I sent MO Jerry a set of discs directly (DVDs are in the mail -- computer DVDs, Not DVD-V or DVD-A discs).

I should have asked where folks lived, so we can have the vine go more quickly. Jason, Heath and ohm, you may want to put where you live. I just sent the DVDs to Virginia, so whomever is closer should get them next, and so forth. This is what we use to do on the moe. DAT trading list and it worked quite well.

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

Offline JasonSobel

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2005, 08:00:18 AM »
I'm up in Cambridge, MA.  just outside of Boston.
thanks for getting this going :)

Offline heath

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2005, 08:50:38 AM »
I'm in Pittsburgh...

thanks for doing this!!! ;D
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2005, 10:16:21 AM »
Heath is closest.  If it makes that much difference with the mail, should I send to him first? 

Whoever goes next, please PM me your address.  I'm planning on turning these around the day they arrive, so the next in line should get them very quickly either way.

Thanks for doing this Wayne! 

michael
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Offline wbrisette

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2005, 10:45:02 AM »
Thanks for doing this Wayne! 

I'm happy to do it. It's up to you guys to figure out who is "next". 

Listening to both very closely, what I think you'll find is that the difference is not in the quality, but the mix. One of them is better than the other, which is a bit misleading. I would recommend picking one or two of the same tunes from each disc trying to ignore the mix. Listen to the instrumentation and vocals (they will be soft, they don't really have what I would consider a great singer in the group and I think they recognize that as well since they to mask their vocals by not singing very loudly, that's just the way it is with that band).


For the record, here is how I ran the mics:

              (Q)           (Q)
====================  <--- Stage lip
                      x x  (stage floor)


Q = QTC-1 Omni mics clamped to each microphone stand.
X = SR-77

These were processed this way:

QTC-1 & SR-77 > Deva IV
Deva IV -> DVD-RAM > Digital Performer (4 channel 24-bit) > Bias Peak (2 channel 24-bit) > 24-bit WAV files > DiscWelder Bronze > DVD-A

The QTC-1 mics were ran with 1 mSec of delay on them to bring them in alignment with the SR-77 mic signal. This was done "on-the-fly" in the Deva at recording time.

I should probably also put together a setlist for you guys. I'll have to do that later.

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2005, 05:02:26 PM »
Discs arrived today.  Someone PM me an address and I'll have these out again in the morning mail.




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Offline wbrisette

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2005, 05:04:10 PM »
Discs arrived today.  Someone PM me an address and I'll have these out again in the morning mail.

You'll have to let me know which is which... ;)
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2005, 05:09:58 PM »
I'm suiting up for dinner out tonight or I'd already be warming the tubes.  If we get the weather we're supposed to get, I'm going to have all day tomorrow to listen to them.  I'm stoked.

And thanks for labeling them 'A' and 'B'.  I have to avoid looking at the display ;-)


Thanks again for doing this.
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2005, 05:29:45 PM »
And thanks for labeling them 'A' and 'B'.  I have to avoid looking at the display ;-)

Try WinABX.
Milab VM-44 Links > Fostex FR-2LE or
Naiant IPA (tinybox format) >
Roland R-05

Offline JasonSobel

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2005, 06:26:14 PM »
Quote
Discs arrived today.  Someone PM me an address and I'll have these out again in the morning mail.

I just sent you my address, please let me know if you send them my way, or to Heath first.

Quote
And thanks for labeling them 'A' and 'B'.  I have to avoid looking at the display ;-)

yeah, I'll have to remember to cover up the little sample rate lights on the 901 :)

Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2005, 11:06:11 PM »
Discs are going to Jason when they leave here. 

cheers
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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2005, 06:06:08 PM »
You'll have to let me know which is which... ;)

I sent initial results to Wayne privately so I would not poison the pool.

I will say that these discs sound really good.  The deva is a smokin recorder.
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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2005, 09:20:34 PM »
got these today, but haven't had a chance to listen to them yet...

I'm waiting for Heath to PM me his address, and I'll send them along.

thanks again Wayne, I'll PM you soon when I get a chance to listen :)

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2005, 09:22:52 PM »
got these today, but haven't had a chance to listen to them yet...

I'm waiting for Heath to PM me his address, and I'll send them along.

thanks again Wayne, I'll PM you soon when I get a chance to listen :)

ditto, got mine today also wayne..thanx a ton....I can d/l these to my comp and pass them along to another person if someone wants....
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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2005, 09:28:20 PM »
ditto, got mine today also wayne..thanx a ton....I can d/l these to my comp and pass them along to another person if someone wants....

FYI, These are WAV files, so if somebody wants WAVs instead of the DVD discs, you should get in touch with My Old Jerry...

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2005, 09:15:25 AM »
I'd prefer the wavs, so I'm gonna get in touch with my old jerry.  Thanks so much!!!

h
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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2005, 09:23:10 AM »
I'd prefer the wavs, so I'm gonna get in touch with my old jerry.  Thanks so much!!!

Of course you cheat then because you'll know exactly which are which. ;-)

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2005, 09:27:19 AM »
I'd prefer the wavs, so I'm gonna get in touch with my old jerry.  Thanks so much!!!

Of course you cheat then because you'll know exactly which are which. ;-)

Wayne

ehh...my ears are about as golden as granite...so cheating isnt even a matter...I just want to listen to see if I can tell any difference....I havent had a chance yet..but I will tonight when i load them to my hd.  I am suspecting that I wont be able to hear anything, esp without a good headphone amp.  thanx again wayne!!
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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2005, 09:27:49 AM »
I'd prefer the wavs, so I'm gonna get in touch with my old jerry.  Thanks so much!!!

Of course you cheat then because you'll know exactly which are which. ;-)

Wayne

true, but it's just easier for me to deal with wavs, and run them through the console for a side by side simultaneous A/B.  I'll see if I can have another engineer load up the files, and then I'll just listen without looking...  ;D   Thanks again for hooking this up!

h
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Offline wbrisette

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2005, 04:52:05 PM »

ehh...my ears are about as golden as granite...so cheating isnt even a matter...I just want to listen to see if I can tell any difference....I havent had a chance yet..but I will tonight when i load them to my hd.  I am suspecting that I wont be able to hear anything, esp without a good headphone amp.  thanx again wayne!!

Haven't heard from some of the others who got these discs yet. Anybody tell a real difference between the two?

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2005, 06:22:52 PM »
I finally got a chance to sit down early this afternoon to listen to these.  I spent about 30-40 minutes switching back and forth doing the blind test.  The recordings do sound great, and I had a hard time telling the difference between them, if I noticed anything at all.  I think I noticed the differences in the mix, and whatever other small variables come into play and may change from one week to the next, more than any differences from the sample rate.
(fwiw, I did all the listening with a Denon DVD player > digi coax > grace 901 > grado rs2 headphones)

then I uncovered the little sample-rate lights on the 901, so I know which is which now.  I spent another hour or so critically listening to both of these and switching back and forth.  The differences are very subtle.  To me, it sounds as though the 96kHz show is slightly more accurate.  here's what I mean after listening to the 96kHz show for a bit, when I switched back to the 48kHz, I could hear a subtle difference.  It's definitely not what I would call muddy, maybe just slightly more "smeared."  with the 48kHz show, each individual note of the mandolin or banjo would start "now."  with the 96kHz show, each individual note would start "NOW."  slightly more accurate, in a time sense. (and you can probably tell, I'm not very good at describing in words the musical characteristics I'm trying to describe)

Now, this is just what I'm able to put into words, and after knowing which is which.  I had a guess (which was correct) of which was which before I looked.  but it was just that, a guess.  that's why I was so curious and looked at the grace lights :)  would I have had the same thoughts if I didn't look at the sample-rate lights?  maybe, maybe not.

here's a question I have, can the Deva do this:
just use two mics, and record channel 1 & 2 at 24/96, and record channel 3 & 4 at 24/48.  that way, it's the exact same signal, just one recorded at 24/96 and the other at 24/48.  Can the Deva do that?  have channel 3 & 4 only record every other bit  :)  if so, that would be cool, and a better comparison.

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2005, 06:37:14 PM »
here's a question I have, can the Deva do this:
just use two mics, and record channel 1 & 2 at 24/96, and record channel 3 & 4 at 24/48.  that way, it's the exact same signal, just one recorded at 24/96 and the other at 24/48.  Can the Deva do that?  have channel 3 & 4 only record every other bit  :)  if so, that would be cool, and a better comparison.

No. It records either at 96 or 48, not both. At some point they may allow a change in sampling rate to the digital output signal, but it's currently not working that way.

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

Offline JasonSobel

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2005, 06:49:42 PM »
oh well.  thanks for this comparison.

side question.  when software resamples from 96 > 48kHz, does it do any real calculations?  or does it simply drop every other sample?

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2005, 10:47:36 PM »
Heath,  did you ever listen to these?  I'm curious about what you thought.


I sent my initial results to Wayne but basicly I reported the same results as Jason.  I could not really pick out the 96K on my system.  Both sounded awesome and there was an obvious difference between th two recordings, but not what I would attribute to the sampling rate.  I am going to compare again when I get some time to play with this loaner power cord.

I'm still going to record at 96k when that is available to me, but at least if I have to run at 48k to save drive space I won't be feeling bad about it ;-).
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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2005, 06:49:59 AM »
the only thing i've ever been able to notice on most of my 96kHz recordings is immence detail....
of the conversations of other patrons around my mics.
and dats dat

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2005, 07:14:06 AM »
the only thing i've ever been able to notice on most of my 96kHz recordings is immence detail....
of the conversations of other patrons around my mics.
and dats dat

My guess is that is a 24-bit thing, and not a sampling rate thing. I was listening to a commercial DVD-A recording of Mozart's Requiem the other day and noticed some "noise". I stopped the player put on the headphones, and turned up the volume a bit. I was hearing the movement of the players' instruments, or some other object. I happen to own the same Deutsche Grammophon recording on CD, so I pulled that out and put it on. I didn't notice the sound until I put on the headphones and listened very carefully. It was there, but either they masked it much better on the CD, or it simply blended into the mix better at 16-bits, I'm not sure which.

While there will be some audience noise on the samples I sent out, these were done via very close mic placement, so the chatter is more in the background to begin with.

For the samples, here is how I recorded them:



     o        o
--------------------------  <-- Stage Lip
         x x   



where o = QTC-1 Omni's clamped to performer's mic stand
 and X = SR-77's aimed at performers.

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

Offline heath

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2005, 10:05:00 PM »
Heath,  did you ever listen to these?  I'm curious about what you thought.



have not received yet.  once i've got it and have had a chance to sit down with the discs I'll report back  ;)
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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2005, 06:49:42 AM »
the only thing i've ever been able to notice on most of my 96kHz recordings is immence detail....
of the conversations of other patrons around my mics.
and dats dat

My guess is that is a 24-bit thing, and not a sampling rate thing. I was listening to a commercial DVD-A recording of Mozart's Requiem the other day and noticed some "noise". I stopped the player put on the headphones, and turned up the volume a bit. I was hearing the movement of the players' instruments, or some other object. I happen to own the same Deutsche Grammophon recording on CD, so I pulled that out and put it on. I didn't notice the sound until I put on the headphones and listened very carefully. It was there, but either they masked it much better on the CD, or it simply blended into the mix better at 16-bits, I'm not sure which.

While there will be some audience noise on the samples I sent out, these were done via very close mic placement, so the chatter is more in the background to begin with.

For the samples, here is how I recorded them:



     o        o
--------------------------  <-- Stage Lip
         x x   



where o = QTC-1 Omni's clamped to performer's mic stand
 and X = SR-77's aimed at performers.

Wayne





no, I think its the sample rate.
I've done lots of 24/44 recording, and they dont suffer from the "conversation factor" like the 24/96 recordings do.
even the 24/48 stuff is less noticable than 96kHz.
This is in AUD taping environments where there are lots of people between the mics and the sound source. 
stage lip stuff is where those high sample rates shine. 

the "noise" you refer to in your DVD-As and CD, it should be no surprise that the 24bit DVD-A is cabable of rendering low level detail better than the 16bit version.  But both factors are present here, deeper bit depth and higher sample rate.

in any case...
24/96 AUD tapes can smoke...
but if the crowd is chatty, 16bit is better.  Less dynamic range and less low level detail makes for Louder instruments/passages to be heard better through 50 conversations happening simultaneously around your mics.
but YMMV

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2005, 10:40:16 AM »
OK, I've got these from Jason.
Who's next on the vine ?

Heath ?

BTW, there are two disks. A & B both as DVD-As that play  *very* strangely.
If I hit tray-open, they play !  No chance of selection of 24/48 v. 24/48 tracks.
One track plays and it stops. Pressing tray-open again moves on to next track !

Who burned these to DVD-A and with what software ?  Is my DVD-A player whacky or the disk ?

« Last Edit: March 05, 2005, 10:44:37 AM by Mr. Jitter »

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #47 on: March 05, 2005, 10:52:40 AM »
Who burned these to DVD-A and with what software ?  Is my DVD-A player whacky or the disk ?

Don't know if these are the original discs, if so, then I burned them. They were burned with DiscWelder. Can't say exactly what the problem might be, sorry.

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #48 on: March 08, 2005, 09:42:02 PM »
Not to worry, could be my machine. Still getting used to it.

Anyhow.....who gets the disks next ?

Offline wbrisette

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Re: 24/48 vs. 24/96 Tree
« Reply #49 on: March 08, 2005, 09:46:02 PM »
Not to worry, could be my machine. Still getting used to it.

Anyhow.....who gets the disks next ?

There should have been a note in there. ??? It's also possible that you are the last person. If that's the case, you get to keep them. Do me a favor and just check the early parts of this thread. I think we might have also had a list there. I don't think the list of people was very long.

On the playback thing. One other thing came to mind. This was burned when I still had the 1.0 version of DiscWelder for the Mac. They made some major improvements and I don't nearly have the trouble burning DVDs that I use to. It's possible that it is a bad burn from me. However, nobody else mentioned any issues.

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

 

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