Topic: stereo playback seperate from 6.1?

[Ed.]

I currently have an onkyo 6.1 surround sound system that works well for tv and movies and junk like that, but would like to get some nice stereo playback gear.  Should I try to incorporate the stereo playback into the 6.1, or should I just do it seperate and have two systems?

I'm figuring my budget should be around $2500 for the entire project, including cables and everything else.

there's also the option that I don't bother with the stereo playback and just throw the $2500 into car audio, but I'm debating if thats a good idea or not.

[cshepherd]

I think the potential for two channel fidelity is limited when it's integrated into an HT system.  More channels, more cables, more speakers...It's expensive  delivering sound to seven or eight channels.  Do you have a separate space for a 2nd system or are you contemplating moving to a two channel system around your television?

Chris

I've done car audio and home audio...home audio is way more fun IMO.  I'm not saying you can't make improvements to the stock bs that comes in cars, but it will never approach what's possible in your living room.

[Ed.]

I'm pretty sure I could put it in the loft/office area, which might be a better option in the long run.  The only downside to that would be that I'd have to go with bookshelf speakers as opposed to floorstanding ones.  Although, I'm sure I could manage with that if I added a sub.

I plan on running computer > amp > speakers, however, I'd like an amp that could handle a couple of different input devices as I'd like to include gear to play vinyl in the future and possibly dvd-a, etc.

[pfife]

I have them seperated too. 

[dmonterisi]

well, i think you can build a good compromise system with $2500 that could do a good job on both 2 channel and surround.  it kind of depends on where you want to listen.  i mean, if your living room or wherever you have the 6.1 system set up now is where you like to listen, are you going to be comfortable listening to your 2 channel recordings primarily in your office/loft?

could you post a link to your current onkyo system so we can get a look at what is included in that?

[Javier Cinakowski]

I have a shitty 5.1 system and a decent stereo system in my living room.  I listen to the stereo system when I want to critically listen one of my recordings.  I listen to the 5.1 for DVDs.  I piggie backed the systems so I can listen to both of them if I want to shake the neighbors walls.

[Ed.]

here's a link to my current system:
http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=HT-S760&class=Systems&p=i

It'd be much more convenient to have the setup in the living room, but the loft wouldn't really be that bad either.  I do see myself hanging out in the living room a lot more than the loft/office though.

Here's a picture of the loft. (We bought a model home so the furniture in the picture isn't ours, so just ignore that)


At the end will be an L shaped desk put up against the two walls.  Probably a chair or something in the middle like the one in the picture, and a foosball table where the table is with the chess pieces on it.

If I were going to put the system in here, I'd probably just put the speakers on top of the desk.  It could be the nice for playing foosball, but the entire house has speakers throughout in the ceiling with an extra set of control dials in the loft so those will most likely be used for entertaining purposes and could definitely be used for foosball.  Plus I'd most definitely have something hooked up to the computer if I didn't put the nice stereo setup up there.

here's a picture of the living room, taken from the nook/kitchen area:


Again, their furniture, not ours.  We'll have a love seat on the left and where the middle couch is, we'll have a longer couch with a chaise on the right.  Where the amoire/tv stand thing they have is, we'll have a 60" DLP.  Chances are she may say no to some giant VR4's and I really don't think they'll fit into the that well anyway with such a big tv (the tv was her idea, and I wasn't saying no).  Right now we're looking at an 85" credenza to put the tv on and to hold the a/v units.  If we follow through with that, it'd mean that I'm limited to bookshelf speakers here as well.

Hope that helps.

[dmonterisi]

nice!  +t for the new home.

i can't speak for dedicated 2 channel systems, so i'll just suggest some HT options that would give you good 2 channel performance and good HT performance, especially with that nice 65" DLP.

if it was me, given that layout, I would go with a nice HT receiver in the living room.  i would upgrade from the onkyo system, but you can cannibalize certain things for now.  you could continue to use the surround speakers and the center channel and maybe even the sub.

how do the in-ceiling speakers work?  i assume you need an external amp to power them, correct?  in some ways, it's too bad that they have separate volume controls because the circuitry in that might not be all that great.  if you went with a multi-zone amp, you could just power the ceiling speakers off that.

if you go with that 85" credenza, you could go with some nice bookshelf speakers and a better sub.

i'm looking at building a HT system for my dad, and i really like these b&w bookshelfs:

http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.models/label/Model%20XT2

there aren't too many reviews out there but what i've seen are positive.  I think they go for about $1k per pair.  i think they look very cool, which you may or may not consider positive.  but i would think the WAF would be pretty high.

that would leave about $1500 for receiver and sub.  would you consider used gear or are you looking to buy new?

the new pioneer elite line has gotten good reviews, as well as your usual suspects from denon, yamaha, onkyo and maybe even used arcam stuff.  (I'm waiting on a new arcam avr350).

like i said, if it was me, that's how i would go because i like to listen in the comfort of the living room.  i know that i wouldn't enjoy hanging out in the loft just to do 2 channel listening that often.  I fully recognize the limitations of going with a compromise 2 channel/HT setup, but unless your loaded, this stuff is all about compromises.

i'll chew on this a bit more, i've been looking into this stuff a lot lately.

[dmonterisi]

another thought is, i'm not sure just how important 5.1 or 6.1 surround HT is to you?  You may consider doing a nice 2.1 setup with virtual surround modes for movie watching. 

also, if you're not definitely going with the 85" credenza, you may consider a nice BDI HT rack.  i have some BDI stuff and i think it's fantastic.  I like the wood/glass look for HT stuff, personally, but it's not for everyone.

this might be a good solution:

http://www.bdiusa.com/avfurniture/deploy_9639.shtml

[Ed.]

Damon, you're awesome.  This is exactly the info I was looking for.  That BDI stuff is nice.  I like the Avion 8527 myself, but we'll see what the misses says.  It is $500 cheaper than the credenza though, so thats cool.

I'd kind of like to stick with 5.1 or 6.1.  I guess the rear center speaker isn't that needed, but I see no problem with keeping the surrounds I have until I get more money to update them.

I have no problem buying used and I've been looking through audiogon on occasion, but this is my first adventure into high end playback gear and don't really know what to look for.

I checked out those speakers and they actually have them at the Home Theater Store...checked out the store locations and there's one in Phoenix (where I'm moving to) - so I'm gonna go listen to them as soon as I get the chance.

I'm completely clueless about receiver and amp stuff though.  If I get a receiver, do I still need a seperate amp?  I'm guessing there are some situations where you do and others where you don't.  I guess I need to investigate that stuff further.  At the moment I have a Pioneer Elite DVD-A/SACD dvd player as well, so that'd definitely be added to the setup if it was in the living room.

Thanks for all your help so far everyone.

[Ed.]

Ed, what is that weird stuff coming in through the windows?

   You talking about the sun?  Yeah, weird isn't it, I'm so used to cloudy skies and rain from living in Lansing for so long, I don't know if I'm going to be able to handle it.  I actually had to buy sunglasses cuz I can't even open my eyes outside in AZ without them on.  Its so damn bright.

We were told we got to keep all the window dressings in the house...we were excited until we actually took note of them.  Nothing in the house actually covers a window - everything is just for show.  There are drapes on the edges of the windows, but no curtain rod going across the window to pull anything closed.  Thats the first thing on the list of things to buy when we move in.

[dmonterisi]

Ed, with a HT receiver, you do not need a separate amp.  your curren onkyo is a HT receiver.  they have built in pre-amps/processors as well as multi-channel amplification.  you can go with separate pre/processor and amps, but it's going to blow your whole budget.

I haven't gotten my arcam yet, but i did a demo of it and loved the sound.  their reputation is for building high quality upper-mid range 2 channel gear and they have moved (successfully) into the HT stuff as well.  they tend to have fewer bells and whistles that you will probably never use such as exta DSP modes.  the yamaha's and denons, etc all come with like 30 dsp modes that are just processing modes to emulate cinema sound or a church or playing your stereo through a mattress, etc.  stuff that i don't ever use on my current receiver.  but they put that money into better chipsets and stuff that will actually make your 2 channel stuff better.  (http://www.arcam.co.uk/diva_prod_range.cfm).  do some google searches and you'll find glowing reviews for this stuff.

I think you can pick up a used avr300 for like $1500, or a used avr200 for like $800-$1000.  scroll down a bit in the playback, i started a thread on the arcam stuff and another HT receiver thread as well.  they are 7.1 channel amps, but the 2 extra surround modes can be re-assigned to either drive a separate room (perhaps your ceiling speakers?) or can be used to bi-amplify your mains if your speakers are capable of that (that's something i'm really looking forward to).

one cool thing about the new pioneer elite receivers is XM compatibility (all you need is an external antenna and the service) and Ipod-integration.  on the new models, you connect your ipod and you can control the ipod via the remote with your playlists and all being displayed on the TV.

some other features to look for: only the arcam avr350 has HDMI switiching, i believe...pretty sure it's not available on the 300 unfortunately.  HDMI switching allows you to route 2 HDMI sources through your receiver and then only run one HDMI cable to the TV, which is a nice feature, imo.  basically makes your receiver the switch box for everything.  plus, running all your audio through your receiver will allow you to set delay on the audio to compensate for the processing lag on HDTV's.  the out-of-sync audio on HDTV drives me nuts.

going with bookshelves may force you to get a better sub and unfortunately the prices add up quickly.    but if you end up going with a smaller credenza and going with floor-standing speakers, the sub may not be as important for audio playback than if you had bookshelves and the sub in your current setup may be fine for HT.