Topic: Teacher wants to record his classes. Olympus ds-2 w/ext mike the best choice?

[bookimdano]

I have been recording Sunday school classes with an old Iaudio cw300 mp3 player using its internal mic placed on a table in front of the teacher. The voice recording is understandable but below par because of background noise and hiss. I am looking for a digital recorder that the teacher can put in his pocket or on his belt that can use a lavalier type external microphone.  I was considering an Edirol r-9 but think that would be overkill for our purposes since I will  just be recording voice and no music. Here are a few criteria:

1. The teacher wants to be free to move around the room and use both hands to gesture, write on a dry erase board etc.
2. We do not want to bother with wireless microphones.
3. The teacher is tech savvy but wants a system that is reliable and foolproof under pressure and easy to use.
4. We will make the recordings available on CD and podcast.
5. I prefer a device that uses AA or AAA batteries.
6. We want to spend $300 or less.

I came across a thread that suggested that an Olympus voice recorder would work well:

http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/05/18/ds2.html

I like the ds-2 because it can record in 128kbps wma. Every other Olympus records in 64kbps. One drawback to the ds-2 is that it can only record an hour at 128kbps with its 64mb of memory. I think there is a similar model called the ds-20 that has 128mb.

Here are a few questions I have:

1. Is there really much difference between a voice recording made in 64kbps wma and one made using 128kbps? I will edit the recording (removing pauses etc.) so I plan on converting from wma to wav. The finished product will be an mp3 for podcasts or a wav put on CD.

2. What lavalier type microphone should I use?

3. I've considered Minidisc but am not familiar with them. I've heard it takes a while to transfer files to a computer with them. The teacher will take Minidisc home with him so I will have to download the files to the church's computer right after his lecture. I don't want to spend much time hanging around waiting for the file to download. Should this be a concern? Is a minidisc recorder as easy to use as a voice recorder?

4. Are there any other alternatives that I am overlooking? Mp3 players seem a little fussy to use. I would rather not have to search through menu's to start a recording.

Any help would be appreciated!

[IpaqMan]

I have an Olympus DS-2 and did use it to record Sunday School classes from the middle of the room. However, now I only use it as a backup.  The lack of memory and the proprietary USB port are issues. 

I now use an Olympus WS-320M 1GB digital voice recorder.  It records at up to 64kbps WMA stereo which is quite good for voice recording.  The recorded classes are quite intelligible.

In fact, I recommended this to our pastor who uses the WS-320M to record his classes and sermons.  He uses an attenuation patch cord from his PA system to the recorder.  He uses a wireless mike.  However, he could easily have used a lavalier mike plugged directly into the WS-320M.  The church recordings are typically made in monaural 32Kbps WMA format for distribution from the church website.

The pluses of the WS-320M include:

1) the memory size (1GB)
2)  the built-in stereo mikes
3) the small size
4) the built-in full size USB plug
5) the excellent WMA recordings
6) the informative LCD display
7) the mp3 / wma music playback capability
8 ) the long recording battery life on one AAA battery
9) over 35 hours of recording space in the highest quality mode
10) plug and play functionality in Windows XP/2000,  appears as a disk drive when plugged in

The minuses include:

1) no included software (can be downloaded from the Olympus website)
2) early versions have a bug where the clock time is lost when the battery is removed
3) the microphones are not sensitive enough for long distance recordings (can be remedied with
an external microphone)
4) plastic casing can creak during hand held recordings
5) no built-in editing capability like Sony digital voice recorders have

The WS-320M can be purchased online for less than $140.00.  There is also a 256mb version for less than $80.  The pastor and I have been very happy with our purchases.

I have investigated other digital recorders.  A good one is the Sony ICD-SX46.  Its highest quality recording mode makes excellent voice recordings but the built-in automatic recording level function produces varying sound levels when loud sounds occur (bumping of desk, cough, etc).  The Olympus recorders seem to have a slower AGC function.  In my opinion, the Sony design is geared toward meetings around a large table and for interviews where sound levels vary greatly.  The Olympus recorders seem better for a single speaker situation.  The ICD-SX46 is a better dictation recorder than the WS-320M.  The buttons are easier to manipulate and there are editing functions.  There is a new Sony digital recorder that is designed for music play and recording, the ICD-Uxx series  In my opinion, the highest recording quality is not as good as the ICD-SX46.  BTW, the ICD-SX46 is not plug and play.  It requires Sony software to transfer voice recordings.

You can find more details on Amazon.com.  The user reviews are very enlightening.

[kd5fyx]

I second everything Ipaqman said.  I have an R-09, half a dozen Voice Recorders, Sony and Marantz Pro cassette decks and my history with recording goes way back.  I recorded concerts twenty years ago (non-stealth) with Revox and Akai half-track Reel to Reels.  I still have my last Tascam half track and guess I'll keep it forever.  I am a real proponent of the right tool for the right job.  We record worship services direct to DVD through twenty grand worth of video mixers and audio through a rack of Shure DFR's, auto mixers, boards, etc, direct to CD and HD decks and then archive several ways.  But when it comes to classes and training we have gone a different route.  We have gone through a process that included full size Shure and AT wired mics, Shure and AT wireless with Lavalier and Countryman mic sets.  We have recorded direct to tape, PC, flash, and anything else you can think of.  Now we use Olympus recorders.  We use the WS series exclusively.  We began with the WS-100; the first in this series. and now use the WS-320 and WS-310, the 1gig and 1/2 gig models.http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/product.asp?product=1194  You can use Olympus' lavalier mics or even the cheesy one RS sells and get good results.  However in most of our classes we have found that we prefer to be able to hear audience comments and suprisingly we are now using these http://martelelectronics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=MDH/PROD/M/1155.  We set these on a plastic stool three feet in front of the teacher and they work great.  These "Conference Grabber" mics seem to filter extraneous noise pretty well.  Many of these class recordings are made available for download to those that miss class or to the general public.  The work flow with these recorders is perfect with some exceptions.  Since these recorders break into two parts with the USB port built-in you don't need a USB cord!  Since they look like thumb-drives to any computer you need NO software!  At the end of class you plug the Olympus directly into your PC; drag and drop the file to your PC, name the file, go online, upload the file to your web site/blog, do the RSS feed or whatever and your done!  Here is a sample done just that way http://www.box.net/public/3vjrucb2ub 

The good thing is WMA:
You can load right to your website for streaming audio or for download.
Most users with IPOD's etc report seamless use.

The bad thing is WMA:
If you need to do any Post Production WMA stinks bad.
While MS has some free tools for editing and converting WMA's they are very rudimentary.
There are some other tools for native editing for WMA's such as http://www.wmatool.com/wma-cutter-joiner/wma-cutter-joiner.htm
But WMA was designed as a consumer format not as a master or editable format.
If you need to add Intro's, lead-ins, do noise reduction, editing etc. you will end up
converting to  WAV or some such for Audacity, Wavepad etal.  Doing your work and
then saving back to WMA,MP3 or whatever.  Since you are wanting to raise the quality level
of your product this is where you run into problems.
Whenever you convert from a relatively low res format up and then back down the quality
reallly suffers.  It may still be good enough for your purposes but that is a personal choice.

We could go to multi-micing, pre's, R09's or Marantzs, to WAV files, and then do Post for an hour or two,
then convert to MP3's but then we would not have instant availability. 

Also we can train the teacher and five other people in any class how to use these setups in
five minutes!!  We hand them a box with spare batteries, recorder, mic, and a ONE PAGE manual and we are done!
The techies can go by later and transfer the files or if there is a class member with an ounce of computer
literacy they can do the whole job and I don't have to.

AND the entire rig is less than $200.00, if they break or lose something it's no big deal.  Since none of
the stuff looks valuable we have yet to have any get stolen, even when left in the class room by accident.

Can I make better recordings than this?  You Betcha!  Can I have it happening all over the campus without
my direct involvement for less than two bill a rig?  No Way

Good Luck,

Jeff

[jb3710]

WMA format definitely does not work in any way with iPods. This is why I won't use Olympus. iRiver is a good similarly cheap alternative that records to mp3...

[IpaqMan]

There is a new Olympus voice recorder series that improves upon the WS-3xx series.  They are the DS-30, DS-40, DS-50 (256mb, 512mb, 1GB).  There is also a new WS-3xx model (2GB).  These new models support stereo XQ mode recording (128K 44.1KHz WMA).  That would provide more quality for WAV conversions.  The new DS series is designed to support podcasting and also provide Audible.com content support (formats 2, 3, 4).

All of the online reviews that I have read indicate that the new DS series has excellent audio quality.