Topic: MT24/96...tries two and three

[Ballistica]

Well, used it for the first time tonight, with some DPA4061s at the Velvet Revolver show tonight (1/8th).  I was in the pit and it was very loud and the unit clipped the whole time.  I had the levels all the way down (+27 off).  I guess the problem was the unit was on M...which is what the manual said to put it on.  The only part that sounds good was some AIC when I switched the M to L...but I switched it back because I wasn't sure if it would fix it.  Sigh, lesson learned.  I guess the unit should always be on L for all loud shows?  The battery also died :/  I guess I should have used the R09.

[dactylus]

Well, used it for the first time tonight, with some DPA4061s at the Velvet Revolver show tonight (1/8th).  I was in the pit and it was very loud and the unit clipped the whole time.  I had the levels all the way down (+27 off).  I guess the problem was the unit was on M...which is what the manual said to put it on.  The only part that sounds good was some AIC when I switched the M to L...but I switched it back because I wasn't sure if it would fix it.  Sigh, lesson learned.  I guess the unit should always be on L for all loud shows?  The battery also died :/  I guess I should have used the R09.

Sorry for your troubles.

External battery options - I chose the Macally:


http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,51864.0.html


I always run line in now - loud or quiet shows with the 4061 > dpa mma6000 > mt24/48   --   no problem with clipping using the dpa mma6000 for gain adjustment

User error has caused the only problems I've had with the mt24/96 - it happens when you're not familiar with the gear!  Don't write the MT off, just chalk it up to a learning experience.

 

[Ballistica]

Thanks for the reply....was most definitely user error.  I'll get the gear you described.  I will say that the AIC I grabbed at L does sound sweet.  Also didn't help that I lost a clip and had to jury rig the whole thing for VR (although none of it came out good due to the levels).  Ohh well, lessons learned, time for try # 2 in a few weeks!

[dactylus]

Thanks for the reply....was most definitely user error.  I'll get the gear you described.  I will say that the AIC I grabbed at L does sound sweet.  Also didn't help that I lost a clip and had to jury rig the whole thing for VR (although none of it came out good due to the levels).  Ohh well, lessons learned, time for try # 2 in a few weeks!

Cool - keep us posted on your next attempt.  +T for your troubles...

 

[dallman]

I agree with David, when you get used to the MT, it is a breeze to use. It is a bit foreign though at first. I like the meters, but if you don't keep them backlit all the time, which I do like to do, the red clipping lights are a great indicator. The unit can clip a bit without distortion, so I like to get the levels just below that point so the red lights are not coming on. Of course some of that depends on the music and the difference between the softest and the loudest parts.

I use a Zap battery and power is never an issue. I cannot remember the last time that I ended a show and did not have a fully charged internal battery. And that said, I never start with a fully charged battery.

[manitouman]

Yea, I've had the same problem with the MT in the beginning. But a fellow gave me the advice to always run in "L" instead of "M" because you'll get a "cleaner" sounding recording. You'll get it, and once you do, like others have mentioned it's a breeze to operate.

+T

[Kevin]

I also use the Macally external battery...also will charge your ipod and iphone

[Ballistica]

Thx for all the help and advice, Everyone.  Getting everything in order for try #2 in a few weeks.  Battery is on its way, 1/4 in input is on its way.  Should be a much smoother experience.

[natas43]

I had the same problem inititally, especially taping Sepultura.  Nice and loud, except it clipped even with my levels all the way down.  I bought a -20 dB attenuator cable and it solved the problem

[Mr. Bull]

Try buying the M-Audio 10db in line Attenuator made for the microtrack. Its only $20 that should solve most of the clipping problems as long as you have the levels set down and the setting on L.  This is what works great for me.   

Here is a link to one on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/M-Audio-10dB-In-Line-Attenuator-Pad-MicroTrack-24-96_W0QQitemZ200153291234QQihZ010QQcategoryZ113484QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem?refid=store

Good Luck

[Ballistica]

Ok, tries number two and three this week.  Went to Philly for both VH shows (they rocked, definitely check them out).  First night we were late getting into the show (I read they went on at 9...well...they didn't it was 8:30 :/  First show was good but I coudn't get the 1/4 line-in to to work with ethe sp-preamp-11.  Second night started out the same way...had it set with 1/4 linein with preamp and the damn level meters would not move...at all.  I checked to see if it was cabled correctly and it looked fine...just no sound.  I tested everythign the night before to make sure it was OK and all worked great...then, in the show it didn't work at all.  Uggh.  So, I took the mics and plugged the directly into the MT24 and set it to 1/8 input.  Turned down the levels and it worked great.  I just tested it with the 1/4 again and I had to turn on the preamp to high to get a full signal from both mics...if I put it on low only one mic would register (but if I go direct into mic the only thing I see is a -5/6 db on one of the mics (which is to be expected with my mics).  So now the question is do I have something wrong with the pre or the 1/4 cable or is it working correctly that if I go 1/4 line-in I have to actually boost the signal even at a rock concert?

This is what it sounded like going DAP4061->MT24/94 mic.

http://download.yousendit.com/845725513267D9A0

Black Crowes next week...should be much easier to practice without looking around for security.

[hawghunter]

It looks like that pre is almost the same as the CA ST-9100, except the gain control is a knob on the CA. It's sounds like you have it set right to me. mics to the pre (1/8" cable) pre to the MT (1/8" - 1/4" cable). I set my MT levels all the way down and control levels with the pre. Maybe you got a bad pre or need new battery. Are you using line in 'L' setting? You're not using the 27db gain are you or the phantom power? Call Chris at Sound Pro's tell them what your seeing.

Edit: what was you pre set on the first night of VH?

[willndmb]

i ALWAYS have my SP pre/battery box set on 100% when using them wqith my sp 853
i then use the level adjust levels to lower the overall volume if need be, but i hardly even need too

i suspect you have the levels to low from the start
testing at home i find is usually much different then in a venue

[dallman]

Ok, tries number two and three this week.  Went to Philly for both VH shows (they rocked, definitely check them out).  First night we were late getting into the show (I read they went on at 9...well...they didn't it was 8:30 :/  First show was good but I coudn't get the 1/4 line-in to to work with ethe sp-preamp-11.  Second night started out the same way...had it set with 1/4 linein with preamp and the damn level meters would not move...at all.  I checked to see if it was cabled correctly and it looked fine...just no sound.  I tested everythign the night before to make sure it was OK and all worked great...then, in the show it didn't work at all.  Uggh.  So, I took the mics and plugged the directly into the MT24 and set it to 1/8 input.  Turned down the levels and it worked great.  I just tested it with the 1/4 again and I had to turn on the preamp to high to get a full signal from both mics...if I put it on low only one mic would register (but if I go direct into mic the only thing I see is a -5/6 db on one of the mics (which is to be expected with my mics).  So now the question is do I have something wrong with the pre or the 1/4 cable or is it working correctly that if I go 1/4 line-in I have to actually boost the signal even at a rock concert?

This is what it sounded like going DAP4061->MT24/94 mic.

http://download.yousendit.com/845725513267D9A0

Black Crowes next week...should be much easier to practice without looking around for security.

Did you go into the menu and switch from 1/8 to 1/4? I just picked up a few 8gb Samsung CF cards and I tested it for compatability. I'm wondering why no sound? Of course I was set on the 1/4 TRS jacks and once I switched, I was fine. 

BTW the cards worked great, and they can be had very cheaply on eBay if you are patient. 

[Ballistica]

It looks like that pre is almost the same as the CA ST-9100, except the gain control is a knob on the CA. It's sounds like you have it set right to me. mics to the pre (1/8" cable) pre to the MT (1/8" - 1/4" cable). I set my MT levels all the way down and control levels with the pre. Maybe you got a bad pre or need new battery. Are you using line in 'L' setting? You're not using the 27db gain are you or the phantom power? Call Chris at Sound Pro's tell them what your seeing.

Edit: what was you pre set on the first night of VH?

First night I had the pre at 0 (but did not turn it higher because I was surprised I would need any given the volume of the concert).  I guess I should have controlled the levels with the pre and left the MT levels all the way down.  What was odd was the left channel was much lower than the right (much as in even at HIGH on the pre the left would barely move).  I had the +27 and phantom off on the MT (although I thought the DPAs needed to be powered but I just plugged them right into the MT with no PH power on).  Maybe I broke the pre?  I had it hidden in my shoe on the way in and it slipped under my foot and I stepped on it...twice...both times it beveled.

I think what I'll do for the Crowes is to set it up as 4061->sppreamp11->1/8 to 1/4 dongle->1/4 line in TRS on the MT.  Set the levels on the MT all the way down and conrol the gain from the pre (low and high settings).  I just hope I didn't break the pre by mashing it.  If so I'll go direct again and get a new pre after the show.

[Ballistica]

Ok, tries number two and three this week.  Went to Philly for both VH shows (they rocked, definitely check them out).  First night we were late getting into the show (I read they went on at 9...well...they didn't it was 8:30 :/  First show was good but I coudn't get the 1/4 line-in to to work with ethe sp-preamp-11.  Second night started out the same way...had it set with 1/4 linein with preamp and the damn level meters would not move...at all.  I checked to see if it was cabled correctly and it looked fine...just no sound.  I tested everythign the night before to make sure it was OK and all worked great...then, in the show it didn't work at all.  Uggh.  So, I took the mics and plugged the directly into the MT24 and set it to 1/8 input.  Turned down the levels and it worked great.  I just tested it with the 1/4 again and I had to turn on the preamp to high to get a full signal from both mics...if I put it on low only one mic would register (but if I go direct into mic the only thing I see is a -5/6 db on one of the mics (which is to be expected with my mics).  So now the question is do I have something wrong with the pre or the 1/4 cable or is it working correctly that if I go 1/4 line-in I have to actually boost the signal even at a rock concert?

This is what it sounded like going DAP4061->MT24/94 mic.

http://download.yousendit.com/845725513267D9A0

Black Crowes next week...should be much easier to practice without looking around for security.

Did you go into the menu and switch from 1/8 to 1/4? I just picked up a few 8gb Samsung CF cards and I tested it for compatability. I'm wondering why no sound? Of course I was set on the 1/4 TRS jacks and once I switched, I was fine. 

BTW the cards worked great, and they can be had very cheaply on eBay if you are patient. 

Yep, had it at 1/4 on the MT.  Might be the Pre on the fritz (which I also probably caused).  I'll also check the battery.

[hawghunter]

you might have some other issues there. i had some card mics (sp-19? i think). and couldn't get one of the channels to move either. i was confused as hell, sent back to SP and they said they were bad (i guess a short or something). they gave me credit on some other mics.
did you have the phantom power on then? i'm not sure if you can do that with the bat box or pre hooked up. maybe someone else can comment on that.

[manitouman]

I thought someone suggested setting the MT levels to 4dB and then adjusting the gain on the pre? I'm not positive about this but I thought the advice was to adjust at the pre when using a pre? At least that's what's been working for me. Of course I've been running my open taping rig with those settings on the MT. But all my gain levels have been adjusted with the pre. I plan on running the Church-Audio ST-11 cards>9100 pre>1/4" TRS inputs>MT in November, if nothing sooner. Maybe I should check mine out and see that it's working correctly.

Your sample sounds a lot like mine have sounded using omni caps. That's why I bought the CA ST-11 mics with additional caps for that reason. Indoor venues aren't that good for omni caps unless you are REALLY close to the sound source. I'm assuming you taped in a large arena? I've been "fixing" some old recordings with software so they are still worth keeping. All I can say is keep trying, you can't have success without failure. Is the Black Crowes outside or inside venue? Outside your omni's would be great, but inside....I dunno..

[hawghunter]

Church-Audio ST-11 cards>9100 pre>1/4" TRS inputs>MT

I ran that exact rig for Roger Waters in July, sounded very good. I had great seats right behind the board, so that also has something to do with it. 

[Ballistica]

Crowes will be in an indoor place (although not a large one, more like a glorified bar).  Maybe I should get the CA ST-11s for those kind of shows.  VH was in an area.

I thought someone suggested setting the MT levels to 4dB and then adjusting the gain on the pre? I'm not positive about this but I thought the advice was to adjust at the pre when using a pre? At least that's what's been working for me. Of course I've been running my open taping rig with those settings on the MT. But all my gain levels have been adjusted with the pre. I plan on running the Church-Audio ST-11 cards>9100 pre>1/4" TRS inputs>MT in November, if nothing sooner. Maybe I should check mine out and see that it's working correctly.

Your sample sounds a lot like mine have sounded using omni caps. That's why I bought the CA ST-11 mics with additional caps for that reason. Indoor venues aren't that good for omni caps unless you are REALLY close to the sound source. I'm assuming you taped in a large arena? I've been "fixing" some old recordings with software so they are still worth keeping. All I can say is keep trying, you can't have success without failure. Is the Black Crowes outside or inside venue? Outside your omni's would be great, but inside....I dunno..

[manitouman]

For the price and the ability to change the caps, they can't be beat. I can't, by no means, comment on the quality of sound because I haven't used them. I purchased mine based on the information I got from these boards. I think I paid around $300 for the 9100 pre, the mics with omni and card caps. That's not a bad price in my opinion. Most of my money was invested in my open rig, which I am very pleased with might I add.

I've PM'd you some links to some useful information that helped me out. Hope it helps and keep me posted on that Crowes show!

[dactylus]

The Crowes show is open taping isn't it?  If you can get close to the sound source (stack) I think that you would do just fine with the omnis...

 

Crowes will be in an indoor place (although not a large one, more like a glorified bar).  Maybe I should get the CA ST-11s for those kind of shows.  VH was in an area.

I thought someone suggested setting the MT levels to 4dB and then adjusting the gain on the pre? I'm not positive about this but I thought the advice was to adjust at the pre when using a pre? At least that's what's been working for me. Of course I've been running my open taping rig with those settings on the MT. But all my gain levels have been adjusted with the pre. I plan on running the Church-Audio ST-11 cards>9100 pre>1/4" TRS inputs>MT in November, if nothing sooner. Maybe I should check mine out and see that it's working correctly.

Your sample sounds a lot like mine have sounded using omni caps. That's why I bought the CA ST-11 mics with additional caps for that reason. Indoor venues aren't that good for omni caps unless you are REALLY close to the sound source. I'm assuming you taped in a large arena? I've been "fixing" some old recordings with software so they are still worth keeping. All I can say is keep trying, you can't have success without failure. Is the Black Crowes outside or inside venue? Outside your omni's would be great, but inside....I dunno..

[Ballistica]

I hope it's open taping!  But they just moved it to the HoB...and well...

The Crowes show is open taping isn't it?  If you can get close to the sound source (stack) I think that you would do just fine with the omnis...

 

Crowes will be in an indoor place (although not a large one, more like a glorified bar).  Maybe I should get the CA ST-11s for those kind of shows.  VH was in an area.

I thought someone suggested setting the MT levels to 4dB and then adjusting the gain on the pre? I'm not positive about this but I thought the advice was to adjust at the pre when using a pre? At least that's what's been working for me. Of course I've been running my open taping rig with those settings on the MT. But all my gain levels have been adjusted with the pre. I plan on running the Church-Audio ST-11 cards>9100 pre>1/4" TRS inputs>MT in November, if nothing sooner. Maybe I should check mine out and see that it's working correctly.

Your sample sounds a lot like mine have sounded using omni caps. That's why I bought the CA ST-11 mics with additional caps for that reason. Indoor venues aren't that good for omni caps unless you are REALLY close to the sound source. I'm assuming you taped in a large arena? I've been "fixing" some old recordings with software so they are still worth keeping. All I can say is keep trying, you can't have success without failure. Is the Black Crowes outside or inside venue? Outside your omni's would be great, but inside....I dunno..

[dactylus]

Oh - Another member had a horror story about a HoB shutting them down and lying to them about the open taping of the Crowes.  I think that I'd remain low profile, get there early and get close to the stacks...  good luck!!

 

I hope it's open taping!  But they just moved it to the HoB...and well...

The Crowes show is open taping isn't it?  If you can get close to the sound source (stack) I think that you would do just fine with the omnis...

 

Crowes will be in an indoor place (although not a large one, more like a glorified bar).  Maybe I should get the CA ST-11s for those kind of shows.  VH was in an area.

I thought someone suggested setting the MT levels to 4dB and then adjusting the gain on the pre? I'm not positive about this but I thought the advice was to adjust at the pre when using a pre? At least that's what's been working for me. Of course I've been running my open taping rig with those settings on the MT. But all my gain levels have been adjusted with the pre. I plan on running the Church-Audio ST-11 cards>9100 pre>1/4" TRS inputs>MT in November, if nothing sooner. Maybe I should check mine out and see that it's working correctly.

Your sample sounds a lot like mine have sounded using omni caps. That's why I bought the CA ST-11 mics with additional caps for that reason. Indoor venues aren't that good for omni caps unless you are REALLY close to the sound source. I'm assuming you taped in a large arena? I've been "fixing" some old recordings with software so they are still worth keeping. All I can say is keep trying, you can't have success without failure. Is the Black Crowes outside or inside venue? Outside your omni's would be great, but inside....I dunno..