Topic: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?

[bbernardini]

I was lucky enough to receive an Edirol R-09 as a gift over the holidays. However, I can't afford external mics at the moment. To avoid security hassles while stealthing, I'd like to be able to set levels elsewhere (say, the bathroom), start recording, and let it run without having to check and/or adjust levels. I'm figuring on low mic gain, low cut on, and AGC off. I've perused the boards, and done some experimenting recording my band at wedding gigs. It seems like an input level of 12 or 13 might do the trick, but I thought I'd ask the experts.

The show in question is The Cure at the Wachovia Spectrum in Philadelphia, if that helps. There's also a possibility of recording a Saw Doctors show at the Nokia Theater in NYC before that.

Thanks for any and all advice!

[deadhoarse]

Where do you plan on keeping the recorder during the show?  If you're so concerned about getting caught that you don't want to check levels during the show, chances are you will be keeping the recorder in a spot that won't be optimal for recording.

Anyway, it's hard to say.  It depends where you are located in the arena/how loud it is.  I'll be taping that show as well.

[Belexes]

I taped a show with the internals, just for fun, at an "America" show last year for a festival they played.  I have external mics, but wanted to use the internal mics just to experiment.

Setting the levels was a bitch, to say the least.  I put the unit in a shirt pocket with something at the bottom of the pocket to raise the R-09 up so the mics would be slightly visable. I had the mics faced towards the stage, but of course when you do that, the display is not facing you.  I had to bend my neck forward and look down at an angle to see what levels I was getting and then adjust with the buttons on the unit. 

I'd try and set the levels during an opening act if there is one.  Start low and work your way up.  You can always boost in post, but not much can be done with distortion.

If you are on a budget, check out the Church mics in the retail section of this board. It'll save you a lot of headache of using the internals for Team Stealth.

[evilchris]

If you want a 'set it and forget it' setup, set the mic sens to "low" and AGC to "on".  No levels to set or worry about!

You might get some warble from the AGC doing its thing, but that's as close as you'll get to a no-hassle recording.

[bbernardini]

ADDENDUM:

Anybody had any experience using this recorder with external mics WITHOUT a battery box? Since we've already established I'm on a severe budget, would CoreSound Low Cost Binaurals be able to get enough power from the Edirol without draining the battery?

[vanark]

I ran some inexpensive Sound Professional binaurals (SP-BMC-2) straight mic-in at a Govt Mule show for my first recording.  Other than the phasing from moving around too much and the crowd since I was 4th row, it handled the sound fine.  No distortion and no clipping.

[bbernardini]

I have to admit, I like the Croakies mounting option. Just have to figure out how that would work with my short hair.

[rhinowing]

ADDENDUM:

Anybody had any experience using this recorder with external mics WITHOUT a battery box? Since we've already established I'm on a severe budget, would CoreSound Low Cost Binaurals be able to get enough power from the Edirol without draining the battery?

I've heard several CSB>R-09 tapes that sound fine.

[edtyre]

I have to admit, I like the Croakies mounting option. Just have to figure out how that would work with my short hair.

Wear a hat too

you'll be fine 

[bhakti]

just ordered my croakie set from CA... anyone have any experience with them [or any croakies]... phasing? noise from your head/hair, etc.? placement? dig to hear any suggestions or stories

thanks

[Belexes]

just ordered my croakie set from CA... anyone have any experience with them [or any croakies]... phasing? noise from your head/hair, etc.? placement? dig to hear any suggestions or stories

thanks

The closer you are to the sound source, the more phasing you may get if you move your head. I had Lasik done, so I took a pair of reading glasses (fugly ones) and had plastic, no prescription lens installed. No real issues other than when I use this method I try not to move my head much.

[fmaderjr]

When I used to use Croakies I only had 2 minor problems that cropped up occasionally.

When recording acoustic stuff it's easy to record your own breathing unless you make an effort to keep your breathing inaudible.

Once in a while I'd forget and scratch around my temple (or even touch my glasses) and that would get recorded too.

[Belexes]

You certainly are limited to your body movement when stealthing that way, not to mention trying not to cough, sneeze, breathe?, etc...

I have a friend that stealths with mics on his head and he stands so still that I tell him he sticks out like a sore thumb!  The old human mic stand.

[evilchris]

I prefer to stealth at shoulder-level, myself.  The shows I go to usually have heavy security, and they tend to be well-trained by the bands' heads of security (I've seen a few stealthers busted on several occasions), so it lets me blend in more easily, being able to bob my head, look around, etc.

[SoulBoogieAlex]

If I read my Edirol correctly the input levels go from 0 to 30. Somewhere around 10 should get me a distortionless recording?

[evilchris]

Depends on what you're recording, where you're recording, the mics and batt box being used.  10 could be perfect, it could be too hot, or it could be too low.

[wklitz]

I like the Croakies mounting option.

Do people actually still use Croakies in everyday life?  I thought the 80's were over.  Pretty much the only time I see Croakies are at a concert and it's someone taping...seems like a dead give away to security.

[Belexes]

I like the Croakies mounting option.

Do people actually still use Croakies in everyday life?  I thought the 80's were over.  Pretty much the only time I see Croakies are at a concert and it's someone taping...seems like a dead give away to security.

Qft.  I feel the same way about a backwards ballcap.  Stealth needs to have some fashion sense.

[evilchris]

That's why I don't use the croakies OR the cap. 

[dactylus]

I prefer to stealth at shoulder-level, myself.  The shows I go to usually have heavy security, and they tend to be well-trained by the bands' heads of security (I've seen a few stealthers busted on several occasions), so it lets me blend in more easily, being able to bob my head, look around, etc.

I 100% agree with the shoulder-level method.  Much less anxiety and the recordings can still be VERY sweet...

[bbernardini]

Any more thoughts on this question?

[hekiko]

I have recorded live concerts using Edirol R-09 internal mic.
They were not Rock concerts, and I set the input level = 7 and the result was OK but I still got some cracks during some very loud notes.
In this case, the result would be very soft and I need to change the volume level of the recording with a sound editing application later, though (+400% or more) and reduce the bass.


I have set the AGC on once, but the result was much worse (very annoying indeed, with the volume going up and down unnaturally all the time).
So I would suggest input level = 5 or 6 using the internal mic to record in the open air. If you have to conceal the mic inside your jacket or something, higher input level is OK (7 or .
I put my Edirol inside a thick dark glove, start recording and switch the HOLD on and let just the mic portion slipped out.

[bbernardini]

I recorded the big rock show in question using some SP-CMC-19s and their cheapest battery box. I had the R-09 set at 14 for the opening act, and boosted it up to 16 or 17 for the headliner. I probably could have put it into the low 20s with no ill effects.