Topic: Left mic clips and is staticy, but right mic is fine?

[Argitoth]

no longer looking for help here, see my last post.

[DSatz]

Frankly your description of the equipment and its hookup is so vague that it is difficult to help you. I went to the Web site that you mentioned but I don't see a Sennheiser binaural microphone there. If you would list the specific models of your microphone and preamp, a person who is trying to help you could get their specifications.

So, some basic questions: What is the preamp? Can you control its gain (amount of amplification)? Was its gain the same for both channels? Does the recorder have both mike and line inputs, and if so, which ones were you using? What is the sensitivity and the maximum SPL of your microphones? How loud was the music that you were recording? How much voltage can your preamp take in without being overloaded? How much can it put out? Were you running the preamp on batteries and if so, were both batteries fresh? Does the preamp provide exactly the kind of powering which your microphones require?

Why do you use a Y connector between the preamp and the recorder--is it simply because the preamp has a combined stereo output while the recorder has separate left and right inputs? If that's the case, did you try swapping the left and right cables and recording with the channels reversed, to see whether the problem went over to the other channel or not?

Have you used this same set of equipment before and did it work properly? If not, have you used some part of it (e.g. just the recorder, or just the microphones plus preamp) before--and if so, what was different this time?

That sort of thing.

--best regards

[Argitoth]

I edited my first post. Please make sure you download the zip in listen carefully to the sound files. Some of your questions are anwered there.

[Argitoth]

over a week and no help?

[rowjimmytour]

over a week and no help?

Not sure whats up w/ the static but the sample you have as clipping and the wav form looks alright to me. Usually w/ clipping or over loading the wav form goes square at the top and bottom and not spiked. Guesses on the static could be any thing from batteries, bad cables, to some kind of unshielded or no ground static. Test your equipment in a control setting and check and switch out cables or batteries etc until you have proven its not one of the other elements. Good luck
Peace

[Argitoth]

the sample you have as clipping and the wav form looks alright to me.

I'm truely amazed that you think the waveform looks normal. 

RED is Left Channel
WHITE is Right Channel

[rowjimmytour]

the sample you have as clipping and the wav form looks alright to me.

I'm truely amazed that you think the waveform looks normal. 

RED is Left Channel
WHITE is Right Channel

Alright I did not notice that the first time but I was looking at the shape of the wav form. More important what are you trying to record and what do you have the gain set at? Line in or mic in? What are the specs of your gear? You could be limited by your gear and what your trying to record.
PEace

[flipp]

The flat bottom of the left channel that's well below clipping level looks like a DC offset problem. What causes it and how to fix it I don't know.

I had one recording exhibit those characteristics. Ran it through Audacity and it's fix DC offest option and couldn't tell any difference. Since there were several other recordings of that show, I grabbed one of them and haven't worried about DC offset since. Mine was SBD>AD20>JB3. The soundboard let the smoke out later that tour so I attributted the problem to the board but I have no way of knowing if that was the real cause of the offset or not. Only time it's happened to me (also the only time I ran that source chain) and I wasn't curious enough to research causes and cures

[Argitoth]

what are you trying to record

In this case, voice. You should *really* take some time to look over the first post before you try to offer help.

Line in or mic in?

See first post. When I'm using a pre-amp I'm obviously not using onboard power.

What are the specs of your gear?

See first post.

You could be limited by your gear and what your trying to record.

False. I didn't pay $250 for mics and $700 for a Korg MR-1 just to be unable to record voice at normal volumes. Please look over first post.

The flat bottom of the left channel that's well below clipping level looks like a DC offset problem.

This is not a DC offset problem. a DC offset is when the 0-crossing of the waveform is above or where it should be. The waveform's 0-crossing in this case is not offset.

[rowjimmytour]

what are you trying to record

In this case, voice. You should *really* take some time to look over the first post before you try to offer help.

Line in or mic in?

See first post. When I'm using a pre-amp I'm obviously not using onboard power.

What are the specs of your gear?

See first post.

You could be limited by your gear and what your trying to record.

False. I didn't pay $250 for mics and $700 for a Korg MR-1 just to be unable to record voice at normal volumes. Please look over first post.

The flat bottom of the left channel that's well below clipping level looks like a DC offset problem.

This is not a DC offset problem. a DC offset is when the 0-crossing of the waveform is above or where it should be. The waveform's 0-crossing in this case is not offset.

How do you figure jsut because you are using a preamp doesn't mean your using line in or mic in? Channel 1,2,3, and 4 on my R4 I have the chose to use line in or mic in. Also I heard your voice samples but what about technique? How are you capturing the sound? How close? where is the mic compared to the mouth etc? Just trying to help break down your problem because this is what I do when I have a problem is go piece by piece until I can prove some thing is not at fault. Sorry for the helping hand next time I will just crawl back in my cave.
Peace

[flipp]

Since I have seen at least four five edited versions of your first post, your first post obviously (to everybody but you) doesn't present enough information in a manner for anyone to provide you with a useful answer.


The only further advice I can offer is that you read the following:
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html .

[flipp]

from: Argitoth on Today at 01:40:17 PM
Quote from: rowjimmytour on Today at 12:44:57 PM
what are you trying to record
In this case, voice. You should *really* take some time to look over the first post before you try to offer help.

The first post does not state this, and of the edits I've seen, never has. Providing a link to a zip file is not the same as providing the info that someone asked you to provide.

from: rowjimmytour on Today at 12:44:57 PM
Line in or mic in?
See first post. When I'm using a pre-amp I'm obviously not using onboard power.

What does on-board power have to do with line in or mic in? Some equipment provides plug-in power, some doesn't. Not everyone is familiar with every piece of equipment, including the equipment you are using.

from: rowjimmytour on Today at 12:44:57 PM
What are the specs of your gear?
See first post.

Why should I download something? Why should I click links to help you solve a problem? Why don't you provide enough information so others may be able to help without having to go looking for information that would have been helpful if included in your first post?

from: rowjimmytour on Today at 12:44:57 PM
You could be limited by your gear and what your trying to record.
False. I didn't pay $250 for mics and $700 for a Korg MR-1 just to be unable to record voice at normal volumes. Please look over first post.

I don't think cost of the gear has a direct influence on the problem you are having. What does cost of gear have to do with the first post?

from: flipp on Today at 01:30:12 PM
The flat bottom of the left channel that's well below clipping level looks like a DC offset problem.
This is not a DC offset problem. a DC offset is when the 0-crossing of the waveform is above or where it should be. The waveform's 0-crossing in this case is not offset.

So the only thing I noticed with your waveform isn't the problem. I don't have anyhting to add that will directly help with your problem. I can only offer a word of advice, make it as easy as possible for those who might be able to help you have enough information so that they can help you.

While you have added more information with each edit, every edit has screamed (ALL CAPS) for us to download a file rather than having the info provided in your posts. Perhaps someone else will be able to help. I don't think I can. Have you replaced each link in your recording chain, one at a time, in order to eliminate probable causes? Since you think the problem may be a bad recorder, have you successfully recorded with the rest of the equipment to a different recorder?

Why do you have such an aversion to answering questions and providing more information?

You may be frustrated that no one has been able to tell you what is wrong and why it occurred. Can you understand that we may be just as frustrated with your lack of providing information/answering questions that may be useful in allowing others to help?

[rowjimmytour]

from: Argitoth on Today at 01:40:17 PM
Quote from: rowjimmytour on Today at 12:44:57 PM
what are you trying to record
In this case, voice. You should *really* take some time to look over the first post before you try to offer help.

The first post does not state this, and of the edits I've seen, never has. Providing a link to a zip file is not the same as providing the info that someone asked you to provide.

from: rowjimmytour on Today at 12:44:57 PM
Line in or mic in?
See first post. When I'm using a pre-amp I'm obviously not using onboard power.

What does on-board power have to do with line in or mic in? Some equipment provides plug-in power, some doesn't. Not everyone is familiar with every piece of equipment, including the equipment you are using.

from: rowjimmytour on Today at 12:44:57 PM
What are the specs of your gear?
See first post.

Why should I download something? Why should I click links to help you solve a problem? Why don't you provide enough information so others may be able to help without having to go looking for information that would have been helpful if included in your first post?

from: rowjimmytour on Today at 12:44:57 PM
You could be limited by your gear and what your trying to record.
False. I didn't pay $250 for mics and $700 for a Korg MR-1 just to be unable to record voice at normal volumes. Please look over first post.

I don't think cost of the gear has a direct influence on the problem you are having. What does cost of gear have to do with the first post?

from: flipp on Today at 01:30:12 PM
The flat bottom of the left channel that's well below clipping level looks like a DC offset problem.
This is not a DC offset problem. a DC offset is when the 0-crossing of the waveform is above or where it should be. The waveform's 0-crossing in this case is not offset.

So the only thing I noticed with your waveform isn't the problem. I don't have anyhting to add that will directly help with your problem. I can only offer a word of advice, make it as easy as possible for those who might be able to help you have enough information so that they can help you.

While you have added more information with each edit, every edit has screamed (ALL CAPS) for us to download a file rather than having the info provided in your posts. Perhaps someone else will be able to help. I don't think I can. Have you replaced each link in your recording chain, one at a time, in order to eliminate probable causes? Since you think the problem may be a bad recorder, have you successfully recorded with the rest of the equipment to a different recorder?

Why do you have such an aversion to answering questions and providing more information?

You may be frustrated that no one has been able to tell you what is wrong and why it occurred. Can you understand that we may be just as frustrated with your lack of providing information/answering questions that may be useful in allowing others to help?

Me think this guy suffers a classic case of the oleg syndrome. Bip, bip.
Peace

[Church-Audio]

Download the zip!!! It has wav files and images.
Link here: elan_hickler_recording.zip

Other Info:
-So far I've tried 2 Y-connectors: from RadioShack and from Microphone Madness.
-Microphone Madness claims that other Korg MR-1 users are not having trouble.
-Microphone Madness has confirmed that the mics I am using are perfectly fine after I sent them in for inspection.
-My guess is that I may have a bad Korg. I have yet to truely test other mics.

Microphone --> Pre-amp --> Y connector --> Handheld Recorder







RED is Left Channel
WHITE is Right Channel

I think the first thing to do would be plug a pair of headphones into your preamp output and see if the noise comes from your Preamp/mic. If the static is there its not your recorder. The second bit of advice is to lose the TUDE. There are some very experienced tapers in this thread trying to help you. If you get no noise then try the stock mic that comes with the korg and plug in the headphones into your recorder and see if you can hear the same noise. This will narrow things down and will enable others to help you with your problem.

Chris

[Church-Audio]

Download the zip!!! It has wav files and images.
Link here: elan_hickler_recording.zip

Other Info:
-So far I've tried 2 Y-connectors: from RadioShack and from Microphone Madness.
-Microphone Madness claims that other Korg MR-1 users are not having trouble.
-Microphone Madness has confirmed that the mics I am using are perfectly fine after I sent them in for inspection.
-My guess is that I may have a bad Korg. I have yet to truely test other mics.

Microphone --> Pre-amp --> Y connector --> Handheld Recorder







RED is Left Channel
WHITE is Right Channel

BTW its a good thing you have all these BIG PICTURES US FOR US DUMB PEOPLE we would never be able to understand what a korg MR-1 was... Man you are not starting off very well here. 

[SmokinJoe]

Try being just a little bit humble!!!  We might be more receptive.

You are asking us to do you a BIG favor and help you solve a technical problem that you have been unable to solve yourself.  We don't owe you a solution.  This isn't one of those forums where everyone tries to see who can be the biggest asshole.  We generally treat each other with a little respect, and we ask you to do the same.  We understand you are frustrated because you spent a lot of money on new toys and the don't work right.  Most of us have been there, but that's no reason to yell at us.

I read your post, and I do not want to download a external zip file from someone I don't know (computer safety).  What I see in front of me now is kind of like saying "My car won't start" and sending us a stock photo of your car, and saying "the dealer said it's OK", and expecting me to magically realize you have a bad ballast resister.  I don't know what you may have had in your previous edits of your post, but what I have for information now isn't particularly helpful.  But realistically, even if we have the wave file and images, that typically doesn't help figure out what the problem is.   

End of lecture.  Now back to your problem.  This is all troubleshooting 101...
- replace battery in preamp for good measure, this has driven people crazy before... you wouldn't be the first.  Just do it.
- find a way to reproduce the problem on a consistent basis
- Do not assume the mics are good because MM said they were good.  Maybe they just couldn't reproduce the problem.
- swap L/R inputs into Korg.  Does the problem move to Right?  If so, then it's in the mics/pre/cables.  If not, it's in the Korg.
- What happens if you plug in ONLY the left channel, then ONLY the right channel.  Does that matter?
- Try it without the preamp and run mic in.  Does it go away?  If so, it sounds like maybe it's the preamp.
- Find a local friend with mics and recorder so you can try your mics in his recorder, and vice versa...
- We don't know if you have turned on the plug in power in addition to the preamp.  It's a legitimate question.
- Using a decent voltmeter, measure the DC voltage coming out of the preamp (into the Korg) across the tip/sleeve.  Basically, there shouldn't be any... there should be a small random AC voltage at times when there is sound input, but not DC.  If there is, then perhaps your preamp is leaking DC back towards the recorder.  It's not supposed to do that, but it's happened before.
- This is just a matter of an organized process of elimination.

Good luck.

[itook2much]

This isn't one of those forums where everyone tries to see who can be the biggest asshole. 

We have those threads, this just isn't one of them.

All of the advise given is good, and it all boils down to this:

This is just a matter of an organized process of elimination.

Recreate the problem.  Isolate each variable.  By the process of elimination you'll find the culprit. 

<fat finger edit>

[Argitoth]

The mics are where they are supposed to be, placed on the ear. Sound is captured from all distances. However, once again, the problem is not related to *how or what* I recorded, but is related to the wiring of the devices I am using. A zip is what I am providing. If it's too much to ask for you to download it, you don't have to respond with advice. I have to put "download zip" in all caps because the first "reply-er" made it clear that he didn't look at the zip. All the information on equipment I used and confirmation of my problem is all in the first post (and the zip).

You may be frustrated that no one has been able to tell you what is wrong and why it occurred. Can you understand that we may be just as frustrated with your lack of providing information/answering questions that may be useful in allowing others to help?

I am extremely frustrated because, in the first few replys, no one seems to understand the problem lies in the gear, not in how I'm recording... as if I don't know how to record? That means most of you are calling me stupid. That's very frustrating.

BTW its a good thing you have all these BIG PICTURES US FOR US DUMB PEOPLE we would never be able to understand what a korg MR-1 was... Man you are not starting off very well here. 

The sizes of the pictures are simply as I found them. If you read the second post, he ****REQUESTED**** pictures. Do you have to accuse me of something like this? THEY JUST HAPPENED TO BE LARGE! 


Conclusion: I will not be responding here anymore. I'm getting plenty of good help elsewhere. I waited quite some time for a few replys. I was extremely frustrated to read the first few replies in which had no helpful information. I'm just an immature individual and let me apologize for being rude, but yes--I won't be coming back here to cause any of you any more inconvenience.

[flipp]

The first response to your original post (quoted below) are all legitimate questions. Your edits didn't do much to clear the confusion. Glad you are finding help elsewhere because you still haven't provided enough info here for me to take a best guess as to what your problem is. Others have suggested through a process of elimination how to find out what in your recording chain is screwing up. If you won't do what it takes to find the problem, why ask for help?

Your original post:

http://shup.com/Shup/23381/elan_hickler_recording.zip

Download the zip. It has wav files and images.

microphonemadness.com senheiser binaural mic --> pre-amp --> Y connector --> Korg MR-1

I only saved it because it was the perfect post to illustrate what the How to Ask a Smart Question* page was intended to help with.

* http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html


<edit> Whether you leave or stick around, I hope you get the problem fixed. </edit>

[Argitoth]

. If you won't do what it takes to find the problem, why ask for help?

Ah, but I am willing to do what it takes to find the problem. That's why I'm making phone calls to both Korg and Microphone Madness; had to go through a process of sending the mics back in; I presented my problem in a few places now. I took the time to create graphics and sample recordings (found in the zip) and provide nicely-formatted links to my equipment. The static is very hard to catch in a 1.5 hour recording as it appears *NOTICEABLY* on *rare* occasions. However, the static is constant, just not very noticeable until you've been listening and recording hours of audio as I have. I've yet to find the problem in months of buying my recording equipment. This is not a problem that can be figured out very easily. The thing is that in this instance, in this forum, we were too busy getting frustrated at each other to start the process of elimination. I will be doing that process, of course, I just won't be detailing it here.

Edit: Lastly, I may return to this forum after everyone cools down and I will be able to present a lot more information on tests that I have done (without a zip this time  ) If I don't do that, I'll most likely detail the problem and the solution I found much later on (when I finally do find a solution, replacing the korg? the mics? who knows)

Edit: You know, I just want to enjoy the one-thousand-dollars-plus I spent on this equipment. As you can see, this is very frustrating.

[flipp]

Much like SmokinJoe, I am also leery of downloading zip files from strangers. I found more useful information in your last post than any of the previous ones. A brief description of the problem, constant but not always noticeable unless you are looking for it with occasional bouts of it being more than in the background. Beyond my capabilites to help you troubleshoot it.

Good luck tracking down the culprit and getting it fixed (or the faulty item replaced).

[rowjimmytour]

. If you won't do what it takes to find the problem, why ask for help?

Ah, but I am willing to do what it takes to find the problem. That's why I'm making phone calls to both Korg and Microphone Madness; had to go through a process of sending the mics back in; I presented my problem in a few places now. I took the time to create graphics and sample recordings (found in the zip) and provide nicely-formatted links to my equipment. The static is very hard to catch in a 1.5 hour recording as it appears *NOTICEABLY* on *rare* occasions. However, the static is constant, just not very noticeable until you've been listening and recording hours of audio as I have. I've yet to find the problem in months of buying my recording equipment. This is not a problem that can be figured out very easily. The thing is that in this instance, in this forum, we were too busy getting frustrated at each other to start the process of elimination. I will be doing that process, of course, I just won't be detailing it here.

Edit: Lastly, I may return to this forum after everyone cools down and I will be able to present a lot more information on tests that I have done (without a zip this time  ) If I don't do that, I'll most likely detail the problem and the solution I found much later on (when I finally do find a solution, replacing the korg? the mics? who knows)

Edit: You know, I just want to enjoy the one-thousand-dollars-plus I spent on this equipment. As you can see, this is very frustrating.

[Argitoth]

Much like SmokinJoe, I am also leery of downloading zip files from strangers.

I will remember this.

Edit: I understand, now, that it would be good to be cautious.

[Church-Audio]

The mics are where they are supposed to be, placed on the ear. Sound is captured from all distances. However, once again, the problem is not related to *how or what* I recorded, but is related to the wiring of the devices I am using. A zip is what I am providing. If it's too much to ask for you to download it, you don't have to respond with advice. I have to put "download zip" in all caps because the first "reply-er" made it clear that he didn't look at the zip. All the information on equipment I used and confirmation of my problem is all in the first post (and the zip).

You may be frustrated that no one has been able to tell you what is wrong and why it occurred. Can you understand that we may be just as frustrated with your lack of providing information/answering questions that may be useful in allowing others to help?

I am extremely frustrated because, in the first few replys, no one seems to understand the problem lies in the gear, not in how I'm recording... as if I don't know how to record? That means most of you are calling me stupid. That's very frustrating.

BTW its a good thing you have all these BIG PICTURES US FOR US DUMB PEOPLE we would never be able to understand what a korg MR-1 was... Man you are not starting off very well here. 

The sizes of the pictures are simply as I found them. If you read the second post, he ****REQUESTED**** pictures. Do you have to accuse me of something like this? THEY JUST HAPPENED TO BE LARGE! 


Conclusion: I will not be responding here anymore. I'm getting plenty of good help elsewhere. I waited quite some time for a few replys. I was extremely frustrated to read the first few replies in which had no helpful information. I'm just an immature individual and let me apologize for being rude, but yes--I won't be coming back here to cause any of you any more inconvenience.

There are lots of times I ask questions here and dont get answers. I am lucky enough to understand that getting answers to a question is a privilege not a right. Especially when your talking about the Hundreds of years of experience that our members have here. My self I come from a live sound background with more then 20 years in professional audio. There are many members here with even more experience then me. Please understand that you have to be humble when you need a question answered not demanding and you will gain life long friends here as I have. So instead of packing up your toys and going home take this on the chin like a man and learn from it. This place is a great forum to learn about all things audio.
Chris