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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: geoff piper on June 02, 2003, 04:19:33 PM
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I'm bored here at work and can not for the life of me decide on which recorder I want to get. So I'm asking your help. Most likely I'll have a UA-5 in front of it dont know which mod yet.
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With a UA5 in front, I personally would give the JB3 a shot. Most of the problem reports I've seen indicate the JB3 has problems with certain devices, especially if there's a repeater/converter device between the ADC and the JB3. Loads of info in the archives on that one.
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go laptop!
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go laptop!
im getting one towards the end of the year. A new powerbook, but i dont want to bring one into a show where drunk people are. they have the idea thats its cool to steal or damage stuff out in the open. where as a dat or hd recorder can be tucked away inside a bag.
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yeah that's a risk we take for being able to run 24-bit...personally i've had good fortune shining on me thus far and haven't had anything stolen or spilled on...i did have some chick walk right on top of my laptop one night at the fox though! for some reason, that night everybody seemed to think that you could walk behind the board and come out on the other side of the floor, guess nobody could see the railing on the other end of the section! that's at the fox in boulder, btw.
so, aside from the laptop, or a minidisc, i don't have any experience with those devices. i'm hearing more and more about recording with the jb3, and that would allow easy transfer to a computer for tracking etc. so that may be a good option. if you're not going to be using a computer in the mix at all, just a standalone burner, probably any dat would do it for you. since you're concerned with size a portability go for a smaller one. there's been a lot of d7/d8's on ebay lately, and even some m1's and d100's for decent prices...
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yeah that's a risk we take for being able to run 24-bit...personally i've had good fortune shining on me thus far and haven't had anything stolen or spilled on...i did have some chick walk right on top of my laptop one night at the fox though! for some reason, that night everybody seemed to think that you could walk behind the board and come out on the other side of the floor, guess nobody could see the railing on the other end of the section! that's at the fox in boulder, btw.
so, aside from the laptop, or a minidisc, i don't have any experience with those devices. i'm hearing more and more about recording with the jb3, and that would allow easy transfer to a computer for tracking etc. so that may be a good option. if you're not going to be using a computer in the mix at all, just a standalone burner, probably any dat would do it for you. since you're concerned with size a portability go for a smaller one. there's been a lot of d7/d8's on ebay lately, and even some m1's and d100's for decent prices...
yea i would be doing dat or HD> CPU by way of either a soundcard or an emagic 2|6 or similar. And when i get my laptop i will do shows with it where i know my gear will be protected. ie. a friends band where i can take control of the situation.
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Laptops aren't bad if you don't have to use the computer itself to set levels, etc. On my powerbook, I set it up at the beginning of the show, hit record, then all levels are controlled via my pre/ADC. I can tuck the laptop under my stand for protection. If I could run the thing closed (I know, there's a mod, I just don't want to do it), I could just leave it in the bag and only have my pre/ADC out. I wish I could run everything in bag, but that probably won't happen until HD recorders are out there and tiny.
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i'm going to be taping my first show ever in about 3 weeks.
gonna be running akg 300's > UA-5 > JB3.
can't beat the JB3. you can find them new for like $200 on ebay.
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go modua5> jb3........from what i hear.... ;)
bean
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While I voted for the M1, I have to say that for somebody starting out I am very hesitant to recommend DAT. As much as it pains me to say this, DAT is on it's last legs. Partly due to new technology and partly due to manufacturers no longer seeing a lot of value in them. If they last another 5 years I'd be surprised. That's not to say I won't be running my recorders/players until they die, but with all the new technology right around the bend, it would shock me if DATs still out numbered other recording media at shows.
Laptops? While I can pick up a laptop cheaper than most since I work for a computer manufacturer, I still can't see myself taking one to a show (at least not to the clubs where I tape a large portion of my stuff).
The thing I'm really waiting for is a nice portable hard drive recorder that won't break the bank. I honestly think we'll start seeing these things come down in price over the next couple of years.
Personally, we somebody new wants to get into taping, I initially recommend they use a MD recorder and patch out of folks. This way they can get a good idea of the gear used, and they don't have to mortgage the house to get into taping (OK, most don't own a house, but...). If somebody just wants to dive head first into taping and really wants a DAT deck, then I'll recommend the M1. But, as I see it the writing is on the wall.
Wayne
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I initially recommend they use a MD recorder and patch out of folks.
I think that with the limited "disc" length (80 or 99 minutes?), lossy compression format, and no ability to transfer the audio to a computer (that I know of) would make MD a poor choice.
Unless I'm mistaken the MiniDiscs have a sort of "firewall" that prevents the ATRAC audio data on the discs from being accessed directly by computer.
A Nomad Jukebox 3 on the other hand saves music as uncompressed WAV's, can record for 2 hours straight (maybe more?) and provides a very easy transfer of the audio files to the PC.
Wayne can I have a free laptop? ;)
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While I voted for the M1, I have to say that for somebody starting out I am very hesitant to recommend DAT. As much as it pains me to say this, DAT is on it's last legs. Partly due to new technology and partly due to manufacturers no longer seeing a lot of value in them. If they last another 5 years I'd be surprised. That's not to say I won't be running my recorders/players until they die, but with all the new technology right around the bend, it would shock me if DATs still out numbered other recording media at shows.
Laptops? While I can pick up a laptop cheaper than most since I work for a computer manufacturer, I still can't see myself taking one to a show (at least not to the clubs where I tape a large portion of my stuff).
The thing I'm really waiting for is a nice portable hard drive recorder that won't break the bank. I honestly think we'll start seeing these things come down in price over the next couple of years.
Personally, we somebody new wants to get into taping, I initially recommend they use a MD recorder and patch out of folks. This way they can get a good idea of the gear used, and they don't have to mortgage the house to get into taping (OK, most don't own a house, but...). If somebody just wants to dive head first into taping and really wants a DAT deck, then I'll recommend the M1. But, as I see it the writing is on the wall.
Wayne
i agree with what you are saying. I would like to have something to last me until the HD recorders come out and get down to a good price. Which might mean used DAT or a JB3. Laptops are too big for taping even though they offer 24/96 or higher, but in most cases what can be done with 24/xx in this form? unless you have a dvd burner, and correct me if im wrong, not much. I mean yea they can be listened to on your home computer or laptop but when you want portable audio for the car or something similar you dont want to have to drag around your laptop.
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I initially recommend they use a MD recorder and patch out of folks.
I think that with the limited "disc" length (80 or 99 minutes?), lossy compression format, and no ability to transfer the audio to a computer (that I know of) would make MD a poor choice.
Wayne can I have a free laptop? ;)
You are correct, that the 80 to 99 minutes isn't the most ideal length for discs, however, when you can pick up a recordable portable MD for less than $150 USD, it isn't such a bad deal.
You can transfer audio to the computer, but there are some trade-offs. Either you have to invest in a full size home unit that has TOS/SPDIF outputs, or use the lineout on the portable unit and do an analog transfer. I know this is sacrilegious to some, but remember we are talking about low cost and analog transfers can sound better than digital transfers with the right gear. We're all pretty anal (if we weren't we probably wouldn't be on this board now would we?) about our sound and gear, but for somebody just starting out I still think MD is a viable option.
Now, can you have a laptop... NO. :P
Wayne
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no ability to transfer the audio to a computer (that I know of) would make MD a poor choice.
Unless I'm mistaken the MiniDiscs have a sort of "firewall" that prevents the ATRAC audio data on the discs from being accessed directly by computer.
Yeah dude you're mistaken. Someone been spreadin' the BS your way!
Armen
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So can you digitally transfer the files? Especially can you do it w/out having to use a proprietary program (or file type) and w/out a stand alone MD w/coax?
Never thought you could just plug in a MD, open a sound editor, and go.
Regardless, I still think MD is a poor choice for a newbie. ;D
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Jb3 all the way...
Its not as cheap as you think--- $200-250 new or usedfor the jb3
plus $30-50 for that all too necessary xtra battery.
and some kinda way to get optical to it.
~$50 for a c02...which I have had no problems out of so far...taped 10 shows or so with it.
sooo for about a $450 investment, you can get a jb3 rig that can be plugged into anything that has spdif outs and record.
not dirt cheap, but not really a bad deal for what you get.
30+ hours or pure wav files, with good file system and lightning fast transfers via firewire!!!
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hell yeah 100 posts!!! ;D ;D ;D
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I've read numerous times that the CO2 is a shadey route for the JB3. The original poster states he'll prolly have a UA-5 which has optical outs deemed "reliable" by everyone I've talked to.. So ya, looks like a $270-300 to get running.
Speaking of transfers, is there any preferred firewire card if you don't already have the ports on your PC or can a cheapie do the trick just fine? I remember the days of really lousey USB controller cards so I wonder if it's worth it to buck up a bit..
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thanks guys for all the help. It looks like the JB3 is the way to go. And by October I should have an I or power book so i can use that too
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I picked up a firewire card for like $17.00 off pricewatch, not the best, but not the cheapest either...i hvae had no problems
now if I can get my network card to work right I'll be ok
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So can you digitally transfer the files? Especially can you do it w/out having to use a proprietary program (or file type) and w/out a stand alone MD w/coax?
Never thought you could just plug in a MD, open a sound editor, and go.
You can digitally transfer files, but you cannot do it with the portable Sony, AIWA, or whatever units (you can with the HHB portadat -- but the price on that is outrageous). A full sized home unit is required for digital transfers other than the HHB.
Heck I can just plug in a cassette player, open a sound editor and go. The same applies to MD.
Wayne
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Ya, I guess I should note that the importance of a digital transfer is different for everyone.. I know that Doug Oade has made mention that going analog in on a Sony CDRW-33 (stand alone burner, think thats the right model #) sounds *better* then going digital in! It has some super DSP in it apparently... but it is interesting to note..
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You also have to remember that I'm not opposed to using analog transfers (that was the only way we did stuff back in the early 80's when I did sub-mastering). I can get better sounding recordings using analog @ 24-bit than digital @16/24 using my MOTU 2408mkII "card".
Wayne
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Guys I was just reading through some old threads and came across some one saying that Tapes had to be formatted to use in the DA-P1? What is this about? Just curious.. Thanks again
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you will not have an "A" or "absolute"time on your tapes...this is just the number that NEVER changes during the life of the dat tape......something VERY useful when going into a standalone..... ;)
bean