Topic: What are usually the consequences of getting caught?

[reorocks]

What happens if you get caught stealth taping if the band or venue dosen't allow taping?

[Dede2002]

What happens if you get caught stealth taping if the band or venue dosen't allow taping?

Be prepared for everything. There's no rule.

[greenone]

Your legal options are to leave the venue without them taking anything, or to do what Moke said. Surrender the ticket or surrender the recording - and don't surrender anything else, especially gear, if you ever want to see it again. Venue security has no right to detain you - all they can do is ask you to leave.

[stevetoney]

Actually, I think that there ARE rules, but the reality is that there's the legal world and there's the real world.  When you're in the club, there's only side that matters...the real world.

I'll leave the legal world discussion to the experts.

In the real world, the consequences are whatever the situation dictates and warrants.  You are usually left at your own devices to figure out what those consequences are and, to a certain degree, you have some control to determine what they might be.

For example, some people are agressive and try to state their right to record and argue the situation out.  Well, that's just a losing strategy.

Others are totally passive.  In other words, if you get caught, you simply pack up without any questions asked and head for the doors as quickly as possible to prevent 'a situation' from happening.  Personally, I stealthed in the old days, and I got nabbed twice and this was my strategy because frankly, I figured I had too much money wrapped up in my gear to risk it to the situation.  I'd rather have all my gear safely in my car than risk having it damaged or attempting being confiscated by someone...simply for the sake of getting a recording.

In any case, the bottom line is NEVER give up your gear.  Give up the tapes, give up the batteries, etc. but don't give up gear.  In fact, NEVER let anyone else even touch your gear, because they might rip it apart when they remove the tapes.  While you might have a legal recourse, you really have no practical recourse to being compensated by the club if your gear gets ruined.

So, that's a long introduction to the specific answer to your question, but the usual consquences to getting caught are usually that you'd get a verbal scolding and hand over the recording to the bouncer...you may or may not get kicked out of the performance.  

If you make a scene, it'll make it easier for them to remember you so that you could be singled out in the future at the same club.  

If the club is taper friendly and you're in violation of club rules (taping a non-taper friendly band?), you could be jeopardizing future taper friendliness or specific policies related to taping for other tapers at that particular venue.

[sparkey]

and don't surrender anything else, especially gear, if you ever want to see it again.

Mr. Twister lost his rig due to security taking it at the Pepsi Center in Denver several years while recording - get this - Backstreet Boys or NSync or some shit for his kid.  Seems like it was some dynamic mics and a d8 that went bye bye.

[acidjack]

What happens if you get caught stealth taping if the band or venue dosen't allow taping?

I hope this doesn't violate the "discussing stealth" rule since this isn't about low-profile technique, so much as what happens afterward... but apologies if that's not the case.

The only time I got caught was at the 9:30 Club in DC back in '97 (Foo Fighters). Back then this venue was very anti-taping.  They were pretty angry/intense about it (as their security was about most things-- constantly shining flashlights on people, sending guys through the crowd, etc.).  I did not argue with them.  I took the DAT out, handed it to them, and told them I was leaving.  Before I left they also marked my hands with giant black X's, which seemed kind of dramatic to me, but anyway, that was that.  I think the other advice here is good.  Just leave, and be respectful. 

Bottom line is, no venue can legally detain you and they'll have a very tough time preventing you from leaving as long as you give them the recording.  With digital nowadays, does that mean giving them the SD card? I have no idea. 

My sense, purely anecdotal, is that recording concerts is a less pressing concern to the music industry these days given that you can steal an artists' entire catalog in about 20 minutes on the Internet.  I think the industry has (rightly) moved to a point where they see generally see ardent fans who buy tickets, talk about music, and spread the word about artists through fan-created recordings as an asset, or at least less of a threat, than the criminals (including all those college kids and others who do this constantly) who steal MP3s of legitimate releases, which I find inexcusable given how easy it is now to pay for good-quality MP3s.  Maybe music venues still care to some degree, but my impression is that they only ever really cared because they didn't want to see "bootlegs" (which I define as illegally manufactured commercially released CDs/DVDs/video/vinyl/tapes of live recordings) coming out of their venue and for that to cause bands to shy from playing there/their booking people to shy from booking them there.  I think now bands are happy to have the exposure and happy to have fans who want to listen to them.  Look at Metallica - those guys fought everything about MP3 tooth and nail, but they allow open taping.  Whatever the merits of their opposition to MP3 and iTunes in the past, I think their perspective - taping = good publicity/exposure/ultimately revenue generation / stealing MP3s = hard to stop, pure profit theft - is correct.

I don't get the sense that checking for low-profile recording setups is a priority at venues I go to these days; but then, it may be a function of the bands I happen to listen to.  Your mileage may vary.

[Belexes]

With digital nowadays, does that mean giving them the SD card? I have no idea.

I think people have had to show security that the files were being deleted and not had the memory card taken away.

I think of what I use to carry into shows and I just couldn't imagine getting popped in a venue these days.  No more tape flips, no more changing batteries, and most of the flash recorders fit in the palm of your hand.  You almost have to wear a sign that says TAPER HERE, but YMMV depending on the venues you frequent.

[stevetoney]

don't get the sense that checking for low-profile recording setups is a priority at venues I go to these days; but then, it may be a function of the bands I happen to listen to.  Your mileage may vary.

I agree with most everything you said, but that paradigm that you describe is how it is here in the US.  In other parts of the world, it's still pretty much taboo to record live shows...think back about 15 years where, if you flew a pair of mics people would look at you like you'd just escaped from the state pen, while still dressed in a striped uniform.

[Chuck]

With digital nowadays, does that mean giving them the SD card? I have no idea.

I think people have had to show security that the files were being deleted and not had the memory card taken away.

I think of what I use to carry into shows and I just couldn't imagine getting popped in a venue these days.  No more tape flips, no more changing batteries, and most of the flash recorders fit in the palm of your hand.  You almost have to wear a sign that says TAPER HERE, but YMMV depending on the venues you frequent.

Maybe carry a DAT tape on you, to use as a decoy?

[page]

Maybe carry a DAT tape on you, to use as a decoy?

Just beware of it backfiring on you.

If your going to pursue that avenue, might want to invest some time and packing space into making it look a little more legit (that you were recording with DAT) otherwise why would you have a tape when they didn't see you pull one out of your machine... I know there are some stupid security people, but I personally wouldn't want to get into the situation of trying to pawn off a trick which could lead to a situation.

[sparkey]

Maybe carry a DAT tape on you, to use as a decoy?

Just beware of it backfiring on you.

If your going to pursue that avenue, might want to invest some time and packing space into making it look a little more legit (that you were recording with DAT) otherwise why would you have a tape when they didn't see you pull one out of your machine... I know there are some stupid security people, but I personally wouldn't want to get into the situation of trying to pawn off a trick which could lead to a situation.

Ain't nothin' new, I've known people to carry a spare DAT to give up should the need arise.  Not such a bad idea to have a 2nd copy running anyway.

[cybergaloot]

Maybe carry a DAT tape on you, to use as a decoy?

Just beware of it backfiring on you.

If your going to pursue that avenue, might want to invest some time and packing space into making it look a little more legit (that you were recording with DAT) otherwise why would you have a tape when they didn't see you pull one out of your machine... I know there are some stupid security people, but I personally wouldn't want to get into the situation of trying to pawn off a trick which could lead to a situation.

Carry something like a 128MB SD card and give them that. That's no loss. Unless they know how big it should be, they'd probably accept it.

[cybergaloot]

Look at Metallica - those guys fought everything about MP3 tooth and nail, but they allow open taping.  Whatever the merits of their opposition to MP3 and iTunes in the past, I think their perspective - taping = good publicity/exposure/ultimately revenue generation / stealing MP3s = hard to stop, pure profit theft - is correct.

What was stupid about Metallica was that THEY were into tape trading back before they got famous. They've said so in interviews. I can see not liking people sharing commercial stuff but how many of those tapes they traded were auds and how many were commercial? I mean, look at those guys, does anyone think they obeyed the rules back then? Hypocrites!

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

Led Zeppelin security used to smash your gear and then beat the shit out of you...  There's a story about Peter Grant beating the crap out of some guy that had a microphone at a LedZep show.  Turns out the guy was a local cop with a Decibel Meter...  Oops!

Terry

[gewwang]

I've heard similar stories about people getting busted taping the boss.

And Metallica hasn't been open taping for about 12 years.