Topic: What is the new hotness for stealth/small profile taping?

[Brian E.]

When I taped in 2003-2006, I used a laptop and then a JB3.  I've since lost both of those (sold laptop, gave back JB3).  So I haven't taped since then.  I used giant squids and AT853's -> custom Batt Box -> JB3.  I hated the JB3.  Not user friendly and too big.

I'd like to find something the size of an iPod (not an iRiver) that is the new big thing, with some small mics that I can also stick on a t-bar too if I want.

So, what is there?  Let's assume that money isn't really an object.

[J.Maye]

R09HR for the recorder, or 722 if you really have some space in your pants. There are about a million different pre/mic combos.

[acidjack]

When I taped in 2003-2006, I used a laptop and then a JB3.  I've since lost both of those (sold laptop, gave back JB3).  So I haven't taped since then.  I used giant squids and AT853's -> custom Batt Box -> JB3.  I hated the JB3.  Not user friendly and too big.

I'd like to find something the size of an iPod (not an iRiver) that is the new big thing, with some small mics that I can also stick on a t-bar too if I want.

So, what is there?  Let's assume that money isn't really an option.

I assume you mean money is no "object"... but anyway..

The most common small recorder is the Edirol R-09HR.  Generally good reliability, good internal pre, easy to use, records 24bit. Not as small as an iPod but a lot smaller than a JB3 or a DAT machine.

Mics--- if money is really not a problem. the top of the line would involve something like Schoeps Mk4 or DPA 4022 running into various power supplies -but you probably already know that.  

In small to miniature mics that you could still put on a t-bar, the main models in very rough order of quality and price (quality being subjective of course), are:

Highest-end
Schoeps Mk4/DPA 4022 ($3000)

High-end miniature omnis (don't really need a t-bar or stand since you can mount to about anything)
DPA 4061 (omni, not ideal for every situation but excellent when used properly) ~$1000

High-end cardiods/hypers  (in the $500-700 range) (these would be less goofy looking on a t-bar)
Audix M1290 (Chris Church can apparently do some kind of active cables for these now)
AKG ck91/ck93 actives (you'd need someone to mod them and find a power source)

...and then the category I'd call "very good to great easy to use small mics under $500" which is probably what you're really asking about

The below 4 are roughly equivalent or at least it is debatable:
MM-HLSC-1 (Sennheiser MKE 40's, I believe they really are)
SP-CMC-4 (AT U853) (you apparently owned these so you know the deal)
Church CA-14 (roughly comparable to SP-CMC-4) (there are great rig pics of these mounted to a t-bar)
SP-CMC-8 (AT 943)

Other than those, there are Church CA-11, which are not as good as the CA-14 but are loved by many and smaller than they are, and then the classic omni models from Coresound and Sonic Studios that I would guess you are already familiar with.

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few models like the Giant Squids and a few others, but the above are what I find to be talked about the most on here.

[Brian E.]

haha yes, I did mean "object" sorry.

Thank you for the in-depth write-up.  I appreciate the time that went into it.  I will take a look at those.  I may be leaning more towards something in the $400-500 range for a pair of mics to start, which I know doesn't go with my original statement but I wanted to know the best of the best first.  That recorder looks great and not bad for around $300.

[acidjack]

haha yes, I did mean "object" sorry.

Thank you for the in-depth write-up.  I appreciate the time that went into it.  I will take a look at those.  I may be leaning more towards something in the $400-500 range for a pair of mics to start, which I know doesn't go with my original statement but I wanted to know the best of the best first.  That recorder looks great and not bad for around $300.

For $500-600 I would definitely consider trying to get some AKG ck91/93 actives done up or the Audix.  I think the Audix may cost a bit more (though maybe not if you just buy the caps) and I don't know anyone who runs them as actives (yet), but as I said, apparently Chris Church has some cables that will do the trick. 

Busman Audio just did a set each of ck91/ck93 for me.  The caps I think are $400 a pair new, then you have to pay for the mods, plus something to power them.  Folks here have made and sold homemade battery boxes in the past.  I picked up all the stuff (caps + a homemade BB) used in the Yard Sale.  Another option is Chris Church can make one of his small preamps to power them.  I will be getting one of those as soon as I can for open taping or at least "less low profile" taping.     

Both these options are especially good if you plan to do *some* open taping as well.   

As I said, many here love the CA-14s and do some open taping with them.  If you still have your AT 853s, I'm not sure CA-14s would be much of an upgrade to those if any, though again, both are well-liked mics. 

[flipp]

R09HR gets raves but there are many other small recorders out now ; new offerings from Sony, Olympus, Teac, Tascam, Korg and probably some others.

[Brian E.]

thanks jack - so, "active" still means I have to have a battery box, right?

Are there no recorders that will power a mic itself?  I didn't know if that even existed, or if any mics have built in slimline boxes.  I just got tired of carrying around a mess of boxes and wires - it'd be great to just plug the mics right into the recorder and go.  But again, I don't know if that exists.

I was borrowing the AT853's from a friend at the time, and I haven't seen him for a few years so that's out  But yes, I liked them a lot.  I just figured something better in the same price range would come out in the past 5 years.  I'll check into the ones you mentioned.  Thanks!

[su6oxone]

If money is no object, I would get the Schoeps CCM4 or CCM41 and feed that into a Marantz PMD 661 recorder that will give P48 as well.  Or, CCM4/CCM41 > Denecke PS-2 > Edirol R-09HR.  Either way, the CCm4s will most likely have to be bought new for around $4k a pair, so you're looking at about $4,500 for the either setup.  It'll be great though. 

[illconditioned]

Has anyone here tried the Scheops battery/lav operated powering modules?

I'm not sure what they're called, but they are designed to power (standard) capsules from battery power.  There is some kind of voltage converter inside to generate the (60v?) polarization voltage.  Sounds like a great option for any Scheops, so I'm surprised I haven't heard of them here.  Maybe the are vaporware???

  Richard

[acidjack]

Has anyone here tried the Scheops battery/lav operated powering modules?

I'm not sure what they're called, but they are designed to power (standard) capsules from battery power.  There is some kind of voltage converter inside to generate the (60v?) polarization voltage.  Sounds like a great option for any Scheops, so I'm surprised I haven't heard of them here.  Maybe the are vaporware???

  Richard

There is a huge post about the Schoeps NBox vs. the CMRs that was just up on here this week... if you search "Schoeps nbox" or "Schoeps CMR" should come up....

[acidjack]

thanks jack - so, "active" still means I have to have a battery box, right?

Are there no recorders that will power a mic itself?  I didn't know if that even existed, or if any mics have built in slimline boxes.  I just got tired of carrying around a mess of boxes and wires - it'd be great to just plug the mics right into the recorder and go.  But again, I don't know if that exists.

I was borrowing the AT853's from a friend at the time, and I haven't seen him for a few years so that's out  But yes, I liked them a lot.  I just figured something better in the same price range would come out in the past 5 years.  I'll check into the ones you mentioned.  Thanks!

Correct, you would need a battery box or a preamp.  People on here have made homemade battery boxes for the AKG ck91s.  The Church ST-9100 preamp is bigger than a battery box but still pretty small and portable and will be an improvement on the internal pre of the R-09HR.

And it is true, the R-09HR isn't necessariliy the be-all, end-all.  I use it and like it, and I think most people that have them like them a lot, but there are other options for recorders.  Mics are obviously the more important component.

[illconditioned]

Has anyone here tried the Scheops battery/lav operated powering modules?

I'm not sure what they're called, but they are designed to power (standard) capsules from battery power.  There is some kind of voltage converter inside to generate the (60v?) polarization voltage.  Sounds like a great option for any Scheops, so I'm surprised I haven't heard of them here.  Maybe the are vaporware???

  Richard

There is a huge post about the Schoeps NBox vs. the CMRs that was just up on here this week... if you search "Schoeps nbox" or "Schoeps CMR" should come up....

A (quick) search, I can't find it.  Can you post me a link?

Thanks,
  Richard

[JasonSobel]

Has anyone here tried the Scheops battery/lav operated powering modules?

I'm not sure what they're called, but they are designed to power (standard) capsules from battery power.  There is some kind of voltage converter inside to generate the (60v?) polarization voltage.  Sounds like a great option for any Scheops, so I'm surprised I haven't heard of them here.  Maybe the are vaporware???

  Richard

There is a huge post about the Schoeps NBox vs. the CMRs that was just up on here this week... if you search "Schoeps nbox" or "Schoeps CMR" should come up....

A (quick) search, I can't find it.  Can you post me a link?

Thanks,
  Richard

just a few threads down from this one: Schoeps small rig

[darktrain]

thanks jack - so, "active" still means I have to have a battery box, right?

Are there no recorders that will power a mic itself?  I didn't know if that even existed, or if any mics have built in slimline boxes.  I just got tired of carrying around a mess of boxes and wires - it'd be great to just plug the mics right into the recorder and go.  But again, I don't know if that exists.

I was borrowing the AT853's from a friend at the time, and I haven't seen him for a few years so that's out  But yes, I liked them a lot.  I just figured something better in the same price range would come out in the past 5 years.  I'll check into the ones you mentioned.  Thanks!

For the money and size i use the marantz pmd620 mic in(plug in power of 5v) with the at853's or the hlsc-1's with great results, supper small profile and the 620 has a -12 or -24 pad built in option in the menu for really loud music, of course if you have a quieter show i would use a small pre like a 9100

[aaronji]

For the money and size i use the marantz pmd620 mic in(plug in power of 5v) with the at853's or the hlsc-1's with great results, supper small profile and the 620 has a -12 or -24 pad built in option in the menu for really loud music, of course if you have a quieter show i would use a small pre like a 9100

The Oade version of the PMD620 might be worth a look too.  A little pricier, but I have been really pleased with the results I have gotten going with either plug-in power or with a small battery box...