Author Topic: Jb3 wav probs (Read 11000 times)

Norm · « **on:** June 08, 2004, 02:05:15 PM »

I used my Jb3 for the first time to record ash last night.
I recorded it at 44.1 khz. I transferred via firewire using the creative software.
However, when opening in goldwave (my weapon of choice!) it pops , clicks stutters and allsorts.
opening in win amp does the same. Opening in cdwave, windows media player, adobe audition in plays.

I converted it to mp3 using audition. However though ther mp3 wont play in winamp!!
Whats going on?
Also, if i turn the treble right up i can hear a pretty bad constant hiss.

Here is a track www.sellme.it/kungfu.mp3

Anyone offer any suggestions?

Thanks

Norm

John Kelly · « **Reply #1 on:** June 08, 2004, 02:29:01 PM »

What's the source?

Norm · « **Reply #2 on:** June 08, 2004, 02:32:52 PM »

Erm, source as in nomad jukebox 3, or the mics?

John Kelly · « **Reply #3 on:** June 08, 2004, 02:49:27 PM »

The entire lineage. It could be something else in the chain, not necessarily the jb3.

Norm · « **Reply #4 on:** June 08, 2004, 02:53:22 PM »

I am quite new to this, but by lineage i assume you mean my whole rig.
I have used this rig before with MD, never had this hissing before.

Here goes.

The mics are SP-CMC-8 http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=search&item=SP-CMC-8&type=store and the battery box is SP-SPSB-3 http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=search&item=SP-SPSB-3&type=store. This went into line in in the JB3. I then used creative media source (via firewire) to copy to hard disk. This wav wont play in certain software applications, when it does it hisses but the treble needs to be boosted quite abit for it to be audible.
I hope thats what you meant, sorry if it isnt!

Thanks

Norm

RA · « **Reply #5 on:** June 08, 2004, 05:01:20 PM »

I hear nothing wrong with this recording, except that it's recorded waaaay too low. It peaks at well below -15db!
If you've got a level controller on that batterybox I'd suggest you turn it up quite a bit next time

ChrisV · « **Reply #6 on:** June 08, 2004, 05:03:13 PM »

Did you have your gain set high enough on the JB3? If you are running battery box analog in you can adjust it there.

Norm · « **Reply #7 on:** June 08, 2004, 05:25:51 PM »

The gain was 0, i adjusted the levels with my battery box, it was about half way up.

John Kelly · « **Reply #8 on:** June 09, 2004, 02:22:49 AM »

Yeah I probably should've listened to the mp3 before asking the source.

Tape sounds fine in the mp3 you posted. As others have said it's definitely a bit lacking in the gain area. Also the left channel is definitely weaker than the right. Probably due to mic placement...

Norm · « **Reply #9 on:** June 09, 2004, 05:01:07 AM »

I could place the mics the best and i was standing on an angle, thats probably why left is a bit down.
I let the levels on the nomad go to about half, what would you recommend?
I will listen for that hiss again when i get home, it could be my pc.
Thanks for the advice.
Would you recommned using gain on the JB3 AND the battey box?

RA · « **Reply #10 on:** June 09, 2004, 05:03:04 AM »

Quote from: Norm on June 09, 2004, 05:01:07 AM

I could place the mics the best and i was standing on an angle, thats probably why left is a bit down.
I let the levels on the nomad go to about half, what would you recommend?
I will listen for that hiss again when i get home, it could be my pc.
Thanks for the advice.
Would you recommned using gain on the JB3 AND the battey box?

Just increase the gain on the battery box.
Mine usually is on about 4/5 of max.

Norm · « **Reply #11 on:** June 09, 2004, 05:05:39 AM »

While on this subject, i recorded it at 44.1 khz. Should I be aiming for 48 khz?
What differences would I notice?

Thanks again.

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #12 on:** June 09, 2004, 05:13:43 AM »

nah, unlees youre running top of the line gear and a phatty playback system, you'll never hear the jump from 44 t0 48k!!!

i do it mostly when im taping bigger acts and i wanna archive that 48k copy!!!

since i can switch on the v3 tho, i have been running 44.1k alot!!

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #13 on:** June 09, 2004, 05:24:02 AM »

Quote from: bean on June 09, 2004, 05:13:43 AM

nah, unlees youre running top of the line gear and a phatty playback system, you'll never hear the jump from 44 t0 48k!!!

i do it mostly when im taping bigger acts and i wanna archive that 48k copy!!!

since i can switch on the v3 tho, i have been running 44.1k alot!!

AGREED

it's not necessary

Norm · « **Reply #14 on:** June 09, 2004, 05:27:27 AM »

Thanks
I think I am just starting to understand there are so many levels of quality in recording?
I guess it would cost alot of money to get anywhere near the top. I stealth by the way.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #15 on:** June 09, 2004, 05:49:04 AM »

me too

I think the biggest bang for your buck right now would be get a PS-2 and do that mod that provides 48V phantom power to your mics. They are good mics, but could definitely benefit from the phantom power mod

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #16 on:** June 09, 2004, 06:21:40 AM »

Quote from: Norm on June 09, 2004, 05:27:27 AM

Thanks
I think I am just starting to understand there are so many levels of quality in recording?
I guess it would cost alot of money to get anywhere near the top. I stealth by the way.

well, top of the line is kinda a thin line, whatever suites your ears!!

but you could easily drop 1500-2000 on mics that are "top of the line", and those are mildly priced, the soundfiled is upwards of 5k new, just for a stereo mic!!

pre's/a/d's can drop some loot, about 1500 for a v3, a v2+modsbm1 is about 1200 total, a mme is about 1200 new, so yeah, if ya have decent mics and a v3, thats 3 grand right there!!

then onto cables and recorders and all the other jazz!!

silverbullet · « **Reply #17 on:** June 09, 2004, 06:56:31 AM »

Quote from: the new millenium cyanide christ on June 09, 2004, 05:49:04 AM

me too

I think the biggest bang for your buck right now would be get a PS-2 and do that mod that provides 48V phantom power to your mics. They are good mics, but could definitely benefit from the phantom power mod

I also have SP-cmc 8 mics, usually powered by a 9 volt battery box (1/8 stereo jack). So I can use a 48V phantom power source for these same mics? Can someone clarity and what mod exactly on the Denecke PS-2?

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #18 on:** June 09, 2004, 06:59:08 AM »

Quote from: silverbullet on June 09, 2004, 06:56:31 AM

Quote from: the new millenium cyanide christ on June 09, 2004, 05:49:04 AM
me too

I think the biggest bang for your buck right now would be get a PS-2 and do that mod that provides 48V phantom power to your mics. They are good mics, but could definitely benefit from the phantom power mod

I also have SP-cmc 8 mics, usually powered by a 9 volt battery box (1/8 stereo jack). So I can use a 48V phantom power source for these same mics? Can someone clarity and what mod exactly on the Denecke PS-2?

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=18875.0

Norm · « **Reply #19 on:** June 09, 2004, 10:19:21 AM »

Thanks, what sort of improvements will the mod yield?

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #20 on:** June 09, 2004, 10:30:03 AM »

Quote from: Norm on June 09, 2004, 10:19:21 AM

Thanks, what sort of improvements will the mod yield?

improvemnets in sound, a higher SPL rating and dynamic range, and compatibility with many mid to high-end preamps. It has also been known to eliminate bass distortion at loud rock shows.

There are some details listed under Option 3

It can be done by the average person for about $70 in parts, but you would then also need a device to provide the phantom power. It's a great option if you are wiling to make that plunge, however, some feel more comfortable stealthing with the battery box.

Norm · « **Reply #21 on:** June 09, 2004, 10:46:36 AM »

I was kind of thinking in terms of added bulk in my pants!
Its pretty reasonable as it is now, jb3 and battery box.
Being unknowledgable regarding what all of the increased things mean (SPL rating, dynamic range) how will that translate into the sound? What I want is cleaner seperation of instruments (if possible) and lift it a little, they mostly seem to sound a little muffled.

Thanks

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #22 on:** June 09, 2004, 10:56:16 AM »

I hope others chime in, but I believe the mod does those things you are looking for.

If you are down with bit-torrent or the archive, I can give you links to or even mail you recordings done with the phantom power vs. those done with the stock SP mics.

The PS-2 is wider than the battery box, but perhaps only a little thicker and longer.

dklein · « **Reply #23 on:** June 10, 2004, 02:29:34 PM »

Before spending money, just try and get some decent levels. That sample you posted was 21dB short of peaking at the top level. So crank the levels on your box and then turn up the JB3 gain until you get full levels (use the whole meter range on the JB3 and look out for the double bar on top). Open up your wave files in an editor afterwards to see where you're getting.

Part of the sound quality will be determined by making use of the full range. Because your levels are so low, analyzing that sample you posted shows a limited range of 7,000 values to define each sample of your sound. The available range in 16 bit is about 65,000 values (all the rest in your sample are unused because the levels never get high enough to use them). Or put another way, you're only using 12 of the 16 bits available to you.

Not that there's anything wrong with mic mods but you've got some other issues to work out first!

Norm · « **Reply #24 on:** June 10, 2004, 04:20:29 PM »

Thanks for that, but I am seriously paranoid about having the levels too loud.
I always figure I can always boost it afterwards, but as you point out I maybe loosing quality by not using the full level.
I assume that the JB3 can go up to below the double bars without damaing the recording?
Leading on from this, I like to set the levels at the start of the show, then hide my gear.
Is there a danger that different songs will be at different levels, thus needing to readjust throughout the show?
Next show July 17th, I will try and creep it up a bit, but I seriously dont want to break the next show, its a band I really like!
I am consdering the mod, but dont think I can do it in time for my next show.
I am hearing pre-amps mentioned alot, what do these do exactly? Are these usable for stealthing?
If so, will these take away the need for a phantom power source? (obviously i still need the mod).
I will probably get SP to do it, and hopefully maintain the usage of battery box/or phantom power source.
Not been on this board long but already learning alot. Thanks guys , +T to you all (whatever that means!)

Thanks

Norm

dklein · « **Reply #25 on:** June 10, 2004, 05:52:38 PM »

I hear you about not going over but you are way, way, low. If you keep everything the same and use +12dB on the JB3s line in, you'll still only peak at 1/4 of the max.

To figure you where your JB3 goes, try recording some steady sound like FM hiss and bring it to the top, then back off a bit. Open your wave file in an editor and look at it.

No problem setting levels and leaving them for the whole show - just get in the zone. Once you get to know your gear, that's pretty much what happens.

What kind of battery box do you have that has level settings but no preamp?

Norm · « **Reply #26 on:** June 10, 2004, 06:41:22 PM »

This one http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=search&item=SP-SPSB-3&type=store or am I getting confused?

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #27 on:** June 10, 2004, 09:33:44 PM »

that battery box doesn't apply gain

dklein · « **Reply #28 on:** June 10, 2004, 09:50:45 PM »

Quote from: Norm on June 08, 2004, 05:25:51 PM

The gain was 0, i adjusted the levels with my battery box, it was about half way up.

This is the part that's confusing me - did you get the preamp option on the battery box? I didn't think there was anything adjustable on that one you linked to.

Norm · « **Reply #29 on:** June 11, 2004, 05:22:14 AM »

I have the optional bass roll off and the level changer.
Does that make it a preamp? when i bought it the slimline version has these optionals, however it doesnt seem to anymore?
Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks

RA · « **Reply #30 on:** June 11, 2004, 06:26:14 AM »

Are you sure you don't have the SP-SPSB-1?
That one has an optional level controller and bass roll-off.

Anyways, what you do is increase the levels out of your battery box.
Don't be afraid to increase it quite a bit.
From personal experience you need some serious out levels from that equipment to brickwall the Nomad 3s line-in.
Mine is, as mentioned above, usually around 4/5 of max.
I record loud rock/metall/garage rock.

Good luck!

Norm · « **Reply #31 on:** June 11, 2004, 06:38:29 AM »

I am pretty sure my invoice said it was 3, the picture looks more like mine too.
I can check this when i get home.
So my battery box is classed as a pre amp?

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #32 on:** June 11, 2004, 12:25:49 PM »

Quote from: Norm on June 11, 2004, 05:22:14 AM

I have the optional bass roll off and the level changer.
Does that make it a preamp? when i bought it the slimline version has these optionals, however it doesnt seem to anymore?
Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks

there are many different batter boxes that SP makes, They all start with SP-SPSB but they differ in the number, like 1, 2, 3 etc. You probably have the 1 or the 2, and no, bass roll-off does not give you levels

Norm · « **Reply #33 on:** June 11, 2004, 12:56:26 PM »

Regardless of model number , it has bass roll off AND level changer which I do use, although its been concluded not enough!!
Does a battery box with a level changer come under the generic name of pre amp?
I have been doing more reading today. Regarding a/d converters. I assume the JB3 has one built in?
If so, whats the drivers in getting an external one? Much improvement?
Does it still go into line in if i do get one?

Ta

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #34 on:** June 12, 2004, 12:29:16 AM »

a/d's are aaolog digital concerters. They are the units that turn an analog signal into a digital one that a computer orJBe can record onto. JB3s will use their internal adc if you plug into the JB3 a line-in.

No drivers are needed for an exteral JB3, just some recent firmware.

Norm · « **Reply #35 on:** June 12, 2004, 02:30:39 AM »

when i said drivers, i didnt mean pc drivers, maybe I should have said "influential factors"!

silverbullet · « **Reply #36 on:** June 13, 2004, 02:54:53 PM »

While on the topic of JB3 wav probs... well not really a problem but an observation when recording Line-IN. I've noticed everytime that the wavs when graphiced are always normalized like when I have a minidisc recording with the levels set at automatic. I guess this can save me a step in normalizing but this type of recording tends to also increase the crowd noise during the more quiet moments of a show. I prefer to tape with the levels set at manual and normalize later. comments anyone?

Karl · « **Reply #37 on:** June 13, 2004, 03:06:19 PM »

Quote from: silverbullet on June 13, 2004, 02:54:53 PM

While on the topic of JB3 wav probs... well not really a problem but an observation when recording Line-IN. I've noticed everytime that the wavs when graphiced are always normalized like when I have a minidisc recording with the levels set at automatic. I guess this can save me a step in normalizing but this type of recording tends to also increase the crowd noise during the more quiet moments of a show. I prefer to tape with the levels set at manual and normalize later. comments anyone?

Levels should always be on manual.

AT853rxwh · « **Reply #38 on:** June 13, 2004, 03:28:22 PM »

Quote from: Norm on June 11, 2004, 06:38:29 AM

I am pretty sure my invoice said it was 3, the picture looks more like mine too.
I can check this when i get home.
So my battery box is classed as a pre amp?

Nope, it is a battery box with variable attenuation... In other words if you set the level to the max it would be the same as running a plain battery box. As you run the sliders down you are attenuating (cutting) the signal down, this is useful for hot mics and loud music.

Norm · « **Reply #39 on:** June 14, 2004, 03:17:30 AM »

Sorry to be a pain just want to get this clear ..
I dont have a preamp. Should I want one for stealthing?
I am an a/d converter built into the JB3, should I consider an external one?
I think phantom power looks a good option.

My upgrade path :
Phantom power
preamp?
a/d converter?

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #40 on:** June 14, 2004, 05:43:39 AM »

those are all great upgrades. But they must be decided up space, price, quality, etc.

I think your list is in the right order

Karl · « **Reply #41 on:** June 14, 2004, 12:32:52 PM »

All of those upgrades could be handled by the UA-5. Unfortunately, it is not easy to stealth (although others have done it).

The problem is, the more you upgrade, the bigger the equipment gets, the harder it is to stealth. If you are going to stealth, here's what I would recommend: stick with the equipment that you have, but run your battery box off of 2 9V batteries (giving you 18V). It's the cheap easy way to get more SPL out of your mics. I did it for a Dream Theater concert and it worked great.

Norm · « **Reply #42 on:** June 14, 2004, 02:06:20 PM »

Is this the baby ? http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?item=ED-UA-5&type=store

The link about details dont work, any idea about sizes? I like the all in one idea. Saves carrying lots of stuff.
At the moment, I can fit the JB3 in my pocket with my batt box. the other pocket is free (i can stick my fags in my back pocket

).
About this 2x9v scenario, do I need to mod the box?

Ta

RA · « **Reply #43 on:** June 14, 2004, 03:04:54 PM »

You want a digi-mod UA-5. Check out http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/Digital_Converters/Edirol_UA5.html for info

Norm · « **Reply #44 on:** June 14, 2004, 03:12:07 PM »

Hmmm ... no sizes?
Looks like it would be a tight fit in the old sky rocket, and there are no hold buttons?
Wouldnt be any good if its a tight squeeze.
I dont do bags, I feel more obvious.
Oh well.....

RA · « **Reply #45 on:** June 14, 2004, 03:43:39 PM »

Dimensions

218(W)x 137(D)x 46.5(H) mm
8-5/8(W)x 5-7/16(D)x 1-7/8(H) inches

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #46 on:** June 14, 2004, 06:20:11 PM »

Quote from: Karl on June 14, 2004, 12:32:52 PM

All of those upgrades could be handled by the UA-5. Unfortunately, it is not easy to stealth (although others have done it).

The problem is, the more you upgrade, the bigger the equipment gets, the harder it is to stealth. If you are going to stealth, here's what I would recommend: stick with the equipment that you have, but run your battery box off of 2 9V batteries (giving you 18V). It's the cheap easy way to get more SPL out of your mics. I did it for a Dream Theater concert and it worked great.

what mics?

Karl · « **Reply #47 on:** June 14, 2004, 09:09:02 PM »

The AT853's (SP version).

Norm, you have to be a little creative to do it. You just need to get two 9V batteries to run in series. Basically, take two 9V batteries, run some sort of wire/jumper between the - of one batt and the + of the other. Then connected the remaining - and + on the batteries to the proper leads on the batt box. I did that and wrapped the batteries around the battery box using packing tape. A little ugly, but it worked like a charm!

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #48 on:** June 14, 2004, 10:19:58 PM »

you can power yout cmc-4s via 18V battery power, very interesting

Karl · « **Reply #49 on:** June 15, 2004, 12:04:12 AM »

Yeah, somewhere in the mass of archives of this forum there was a thread stating that the guys at Sound Pro's said that you could safely apply 18V to those mics. I did a semi-scientific test, and took my gear out to my car. Then I blasted my car stereo, which is not too shabby. I tried it first with 9V batt power right up to the speakers, and then 18V right up to the speakers. 9V was quite distorted, but 18V sounded quite a bit better. I took the 18V rig to a Dream Theater concert, and I ended up sitting third row with one of the loudspeakers pointed straight at me. Freakin loud. A little distortion did happen with the mics, but not much at all and very rarely, overall a very listenable boot.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #50 on:** June 15, 2004, 12:07:54 AM »

Quote from: Karl on June 15, 2004, 12:04:12 AM

Yeah, somewhere in the mass of archives of this forum there was a thread stating that the guys at Sound Pro's said that you could safely apply 18V to those mics. I did a semi-scientific test, and took my gear out to my car. Then I blasted my car stereo, which is not too shabby. I tried it first with 9V batt power right up to the speakers, and then 18V right up to the speakers. 9V was quite distorted, but 18V sounded quite a bit better. I took the 18V rig to a Dream Theater concert, and I ended up sitting third row with one of the loudspeakers pointed straight at me. Freakin loud. A little distortion did happen with the mics, but not much at all and very rarely, overall a very listenable boot.

very cool!

I'm still on a quest to see what voltage the AT8533, AT8533x, and Samson PM4 adapters output...

Norm · « **Reply #51 on:** June 15, 2004, 04:16:28 AM »

This is a "goer" then guys?
Or should I take the official phantom power root?
Thanks

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #52 on:** June 15, 2004, 04:42:27 AM »

well, I can't endorse the 2x9V setup, but if others can and that's the way you feel comfortable going, why not give it a spin?

Norm · « **Reply #53 on:** June 15, 2004, 05:52:49 AM »

Providing there is no way I could damage my mics, then i will try anything, once.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #54 on:** June 15, 2004, 05:59:13 AM »

Karl will pay for your mics if you damage em

I've actually heard of people trying to apply high voltages to the mics directly, and it does nothing except refuse to pass a signal. Take it as hearsay.

Karl · « **Reply #55 on:** June 15, 2004, 12:08:01 PM »

I know leegeddy (Marc) asserts that he's applied 48V and it's not hurt them.

Norm, if you get into the phantom power thing, you will also realize that you can still wire your mics/adaptors to run on phantom power OR batt box power. The reason people do this is because it's extremely hard to do a stealth job with phantom power. So a batt box is the way to do it, and with your mics you have an advantage if you can run them at 18V.

Look here for what is informally called the phantom power "unmod"

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=18846.0

I just finished up that project a couple weeks ago.