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Author Topic: Crystal Cat  (Read 11899 times)

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Offline nickgregory

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Re: Crystal Cat
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2004, 03:24:05 PM »
most of his tapes have some level of soundboard mixed in them, thus the "clarity" as you call it

that would explain it, but how do know?

alright, this is going to come off as a total asshole comment so let me apologize in advance.  But who really gives a shit what he uses to tape his shows?  Honestly I dont think he tapes them all, I think he takes FM silvers and other peoples tapes and sells them.  So he tapes a few big deal.  I have heard ALOT of tapes that are better than what crystal cat sells (Pearl Jam - Asheville as an example).  Bottom line he is a bootlegger and a thief....and since quality of the stuff he steals/sells is on par with tapes that are circulated daily, I am having a hard time understanding why we should care what he uses
« Last Edit: November 14, 2004, 03:32:03 PM by nickgregory »

Offline JaL

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Re: Crystal Cat
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2004, 04:23:13 PM »
alright, this is going to come off as a total asshole comment so let me apologize in advance.  But who really gives a shit what he uses to tape his shows?  Honestly I dont think he tapes them all, I think he takes FM silvers and other peoples tapes and sells them.  So he tapes a few big deal.  I have heard ALOT of tapes that are better than what crystal cat sells (Pearl Jam - Asheville as an example).  Bottom line he is a bootlegger and a thief....and since quality of the stuff he steals/sells is on par with tapes that are circulated daily, I am having a hard time understanding why we should care what he uses

Forget that we said he's a commercial bootlegger. Let's say I heard some amazing recordings all coming from the same taper and was curious about how to reach that quality. For some reason the taper doesn't want to share his tricks, may I discuss it with the nice and knowledgable people on this board...?  :) This of course is irrelevent if this taper made average recordings like you say...

Depechemode1993

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Re: Crystal Cat
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2004, 04:53:15 PM »
anyone know where I can contact this guy? he has donea few shows I would really like.

Offline nickgregory

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Re: Crystal Cat
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2004, 06:00:49 PM »
alright, this is going to come off as a total asshole comment so let me apologize in advance.  But who really gives a shit what he uses to tape his shows?  Honestly I dont think he tapes them all, I think he takes FM silvers and other peoples tapes and sells them.  So he tapes a few big deal.  I have heard ALOT of tapes that are better than what crystal cat sells (Pearl Jam - Asheville as an example).  Bottom line he is a bootlegger and a thief....and since quality of the stuff he steals/sells is on par with tapes that are circulated daily, I am having a hard time understanding why we should care what he uses

Forget that we said he's a commercial bootlegger. Let's say I heard some amazing recordings all coming from the same taper and was curious about how to reach that quality. For some reason the taper doesn't want to share his tricks, may I discuss it with the nice and knowledgable people on this board...?  :) This of course is irrelevent if this taper made average recordings like you say...

point is, the tapes he sells (I am not calling them his recordings anymore) are not of better quality than alot of the tapes that I and others make on this board.  With the exception being the FM silvers which he sells.  Besides, you can search this board and find out that the most important parts of the hobby are luck, location and equipment in that order.  He is no different than anyone else in those regards (well actually yes he may be if he is able to get sprigsteen soundboards). 

I just dont see how this discussion is going to go any further with regards to "how does he make his tapes great" when he isnt here to answer for himself...nor do I want him here, as he and his company gives a bad name to us all

Offline johnw

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Re: Crystal Cat
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2004, 06:01:17 PM »
Forget that we said he's a commercial bootlegger. Let's say I heard some amazing recordings all coming from the same taper and was curious about how to reach that quality. For some reason the taper doesn't want to share his tricks, may I discuss it with the nice and knowledgable people on this board...?  :) This of course is irrelevent if this taper made average recordings like you say...

It sounds to me like you may not have much experience with non-commercial live music, but you do have some experience with these Crystal Cat releases. You think that the Crystal Cat releases sound better than those non-commercial recordings you have heard and would like to be able to achieve this level of sound quality. I believe you are expecting a quick answer on what the best equipment is for recording live music. In essence, this whole board is an answer to exactly that question, and as you may discover by the large amount of information at this (and other similar sites), this is a difficult question to answer.

There is no perfect set of equipment for what you want. Some venues inherently sound like crap and even the most expensive setup won't help you there. But if you are looking for the best recording, I would get a ticket to a venue with good acoustics in the so-called "sweet spot" for that venue. This spot may not necessarily be front row, but it definitely isn't nose bleeds either. You will have to research this yourself. Next you will have to invest in a good quality set of microphones that you can easily sneak into the venue and keep hidden so you won't be ejected. If you want high-end stuff, it will cost you somewhere between $600 and $4000 a pair. You can spend even more, but that is a good range. You will also need equipment to provide power to the microphones, provide gain, convert the signal from analog to digital and something to record that digital signal with. All told you could easily drop $10K or more on a really nice stealth setup. More money doesn't necessarily mean that you will get a great recording though, but coupled with experience, luck and the above golden ticket, you will usually have recordings that some people will really like. It is often helpful to obtain a soundboard patch to mix this recording with an audience recording to produce something that may sound clear but has hints of room ambience as well as crowd noise. If the band doesn't allow audience recording of its concerts, I think you may find a soundboard patch difficult to obtain.

This person (or company) Crystal Cat takes advantage of fans of live recording by passing off the recordings freely circulated as his own and then selling them for profit. This pisses off the musicians and the people who legally profit off them. It also pisses off the people on this site because we spend a good deal of money and time to make these freely available because it is something we enjoy doing and the music industry typically views us in the same light as Crystal Cat and makes it as difficult as possible to do what we love to do.

You are asking what Crystal Cat uses, and the likely answer is that he uses OUR equipment which includes DPA, Schoeps, Neumann, MBHO, Microtech Geffell, AKG, Sony, Tascam, Oade, Grace, Apogee, etc products. How much does all this cost? I guess you would have to ask every taper he has taken advantage of and add it all up.

If you would like a good set of equipment to stealthily record concerts, I would read what different members use, listen to some of their FREE recordings and then buy the equipment you think consistantly makes the best recordings.
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Offline johnw

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Re: Crystal Cat
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2004, 06:06:32 PM »
anyone know where I can contact this guy? he has donea few shows I would really like.

I don't think you are going to make many friends on this board by expressing interest in purchasing illegal copies of concert recordings, thus supporting people who royally screw tapers and the bands we enjoy recording.

I know that doesn't tell you how to get copies of the recordings you want, so maybe a better strategy would be to find a message board or site that helps people trade recordings of the artists they like and post an ISO for the dates of the concerts you want.
Schoeps MK41 & MK4V  |  Schoeps CMC6, Schoeps KCY, AKI/2C, PFA, Nbox Cable/PFA  |  Grace V2, Nbox Platinum  |  SD744T, SD MixPre 6, Sony PCM M10

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Offline JaL

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Re: Crystal Cat
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2004, 06:46:45 PM »
It sounds to me like you may not have much experience with non-commercial live music, but you do have some experience with these Crystal Cat releases. You think that the Crystal Cat releases sound better than those non-commercial recordings you have heard and would like to be able to achieve this level of sound quality. I believe you are expecting a quick answer on what the best equipment is for recording live music. In essence, this whole board is an answer to exactly that question, and as you may discover by the large amount of information at this (and other similar sites), this is a difficult question to answer.

Yes and no. I've been taping myself, stealth and open, for about five years now but haven't really looked into the great pond of information about mics, pres, etc until lately. Once in a while I've pulled a tape that could've sounded as nice as the best CC release if it wasn't for the mics. I do know it takes a lot to make the best tapes, learned a lot from experience. I guess the question should've been: Everything else aside (location, venue acoustics, possible sbd patches etc) what kind of equipment would one need to be able to make a recording like Crystal Cat? And even if I do believe his recordings are really nice, I'm sure you make ones just as good, which makes this a great place to discuss this. Don't you think?
Sorry if I insulted someone or something. I have no interest in the commercial part of mr CC.

Offline Tim

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Re: Crystal Cat
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2004, 07:01:00 PM »
Wow. Way to go JohnW... I think you said what a few of us just haven't quite found the words to. +T man.
Forget that we said he's a commercial bootlegger. Let's say I heard some amazing recordings all coming from the same taper and was curious about how to reach that quality. For some reason the taper doesn't want to share his tricks, may I discuss it with the nice and knowledgable people on this board...?  :) This of course is irrelevent if this taper made average recordings like you say...

It sounds to me like you may not have much experience with non-commercial live music, but you do have some experience with these Crystal Cat releases. You think that the Crystal Cat releases sound better than those non-commercial recordings you have heard and would like to be able to achieve this level of sound quality. I believe you are expecting a quick answer on what the best equipment is for recording live music. In essence, this whole board is an answer to exactly that question, and as you may discover by the large amount of information at this (and other similar sites), this is a difficult question to answer.

There is no perfect set of equipment for what you want. Some venues inherently sound like crap and even the most expensive setup won't help you there. But if you are looking for the best recording, I would get a ticket to a venue with good acoustics in the so-called "sweet spot" for that venue. This spot may not necessarily be front row, but it definitely isn't nose bleeds either. You will have to research this yourself. Next you will have to invest in a good quality set of microphones that you can easily sneak into the venue and keep hidden so you won't be ejected. If you want high-end stuff, it will cost you somewhere between $600 and $4000 a pair. You can spend even more, but that is a good range. You will also need equipment to provide power to the microphones, provide gain, convert the signal from analog to digital and something to record that digital signal with. All told you could easily drop $10K or more on a really nice stealth setup. More money doesn't necessarily mean that you will get a great recording though, but coupled with experience, luck and the above golden ticket, you will usually have recordings that some people will really like. It is often helpful to obtain a soundboard patch to mix this recording with an audience recording to produce something that may sound clear but has hints of room ambience as well as crowd noise. If the band doesn't allow audience recording of its concerts, I think you may find a soundboard patch difficult to obtain.

This person (or company) Crystal Cat takes advantage of fans of live recording by passing off the recordings freely circulated as his own and then selling them for profit. This pisses off the musicians and the people who legally profit off them. It also pisses off the people on this site because we spend a good deal of money and time to make these freely available because it is something we enjoy doing and the music industry typically views us in the same light as Crystal Cat and makes it as difficult as possible to do what we love to do.

You are asking what Crystal Cat uses, and the likely answer is that he uses OUR equipment which includes DPA, Schoeps, Neumann, MBHO, Microtech Geffell, AKG, Sony, Tascam, Oade, Grace, Apogee, etc products. How much does all this cost? I guess you would have to ask every taper he has taken advantage of and add it all up.

If you would like a good set of equipment to stealthily record concerts, I would read what different members use, listen to some of their FREE recordings and then buy the equipment you think consistantly makes the best recordings.
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline johnw

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Re: Crystal Cat
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2004, 09:32:22 PM »
Thanks Tim - backatcha.

JaL - why don't you add your gear to your sig so we can tell what you are running? Like I said, since Crystal Cat doesn't list his sources, it would be hard to say what equipment he uses even if he is actually doing the taping himself.

I'm not saying that you are going to make killer tapes with this, but if I were going stealth and had enough $, I'd run DPA 4021 card in hat>MP2>M1 which would cost about $4000. Another cheaper option would be DPA 4061>MPS6030>M1 which I think would be about half that. Both would be easy to steath. I noticed that you aren't in the US, so this stuff might be cheaper/easier or harder to get in Sweden.
Schoeps MK41 & MK4V  |  Schoeps CMC6, Schoeps KCY, AKI/2C, PFA, Nbox Cable/PFA  |  Grace V2, Nbox Platinum  |  SD744T, SD MixPre 6, Sony PCM M10

Canon 16-35mm/2.8L mkii, 24-70mm/2.8L, 70-200mm/2.8L IS, 50mm/1.8 mkii, 135mm/2L, 100mm/2.8L IS, Sigma 35mm/1.4 A  |  Canon 5D mk4

 

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