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Author Topic: What was I doing wrong?  (Read 10751 times)

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hexyjones

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Re: What was I doing wrong?
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2005, 04:39:13 PM »
the idea is that phantom power can potentially color the sound of the pre and if you're doing a comp where one or both of the units does not have it's phantom on you are not really getting a true comparison of what both units sound like under actual show conditions.

Wrong...

-t fuckhead for not backing your comment w/ some actual info.

Go ahead pal - use 2 phantom sources...

The whole idea is so fucked - I dont even want to try...

You fucking moron. You have no clue what the fuck you are talking about. I tried to play nice in this thread but you're still the same clueless jackass you've always been.

Why use 2 phantom sorces? I defy anyone to give a reason to do this...

Offline Tim

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Re: What was I doing wrong?
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2005, 04:39:44 PM »
the idea is that phantom power can potentially color the sound of the pre and if you're doing a comp where one or both of the units does not have it's phantom on you are not really getting a true comparison of what both units sound like under actual show conditions.

Wrong...

what's wrong ass clown? Care to explain? Your one word answer leaves a lot to be desired.

the idea is that phantom power can potentially color the sound of the pre and if you're doing a comp where one or both of the units does not have it's phantom on you are not really getting a true comparison of what both units sound like under actual show conditions.

Wrong...

-t fuckhead for not backing your comment w/ some actual info.

Go ahead pal - use 2 phantom sources...

The whole idea is so fucked - I dont even want to try...

I'be used 2 phanton sources at leats half a dozen times with no problems. Again, why is the idea "fucked"?

looks like you got handed your ass again in this thread...
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Tim

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Re: What was I doing wrong?
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2005, 04:40:15 PM »
the idea is that phantom power can potentially color the sound of the pre and if you're doing a comp where one or both of the units does not have it's phantom on you are not really getting a true comparison of what both units sound like under actual show conditions.

Wrong...

-t fuckhead for not backing your comment w/ some actual info.

Go ahead pal - use 2 phantom sources...

The whole idea is so fucked - I dont even want to try...

You fucking moron. You have no clue what the fuck you are talking about. I tried to play nice in this thread but you're still the same clueless jackass you've always been.

Why use 2 phantom sorces? I defy anyone to give a reason to do this...

I gave you one. Your repsonse was "wrong". Well what exactly was wrong about it?
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

hexyjones

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Re: What was I doing wrong?
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2005, 04:40:49 PM »
What was the reason? I missed it?

I gave the proper advice in response # 3

So buzz off...
« Last Edit: April 22, 2005, 04:42:28 PM by corkscrew »

Offline Tim

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Re: What was I doing wrong?
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2005, 04:42:40 PM »
What was the reason? I missed it?

HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!!

You have got to be, hands down, the most annoying person I've met in many a years taping.

Look, forget it... a real EE (Todd R) has shown, once again, that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. You're not worth my energy...

-T for being a complete ass clown
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

hexyjones

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Re: What was I doing wrong?
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2005, 04:44:02 PM »
What was the reason? I missed it?

HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!!

You have got to be, hands down, the most annoying person I've met in many a years taping.

Look, forget it... a real EE (Todd R) has shown, once again, that you don't have a clue what you're talking about. You're not worth my energy...

-T for being a complete ass clown

Thats what I figured...

Offline Tim

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Re: What was I doing wrong?
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2005, 04:44:41 PM »
you don't have a clue what you are talking about. how many more times do you have to be proven wrong before you will just shut the fuck up and go away?
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

hexyjones

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Re: What was I doing wrong?
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2005, 04:45:36 PM »
you don't have a clue what you are talking about. how many more times do you have to be proven wrong before you will just shut the fuck up and go away?

What was I wrong about...get back to me when you have a good reason to run two phantom sources...

hexyjones

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Re: What was I doing wrong?
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2005, 04:56:57 PM »
the idea is that phantom power can potentially color the sound of the pre and if you're doing a comp where one or both of the units does not have it's phantom on you are not really getting a true comparison of what both units sound like under actual show conditions.

Is this the "reason" Tim? Man those must be some smart electrons...!!!

Offline Todd R

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Re: What was I doing wrong?
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2005, 04:59:15 PM »
What was I wrong about...get back to me when you have a good reason to run two phantom sources...

You were wrong when you said the idea of using 2 phantom sources was fucked.  Matt and I have both explained that you were wrong and that it is perfectly acceptable and will not cause any problems.

Why use 2 phantom sorces? I defy anyone to give a reason to do this...

Reasons:

1)  if the mic splitter is transformer based, you will need to either use 2 phantom sources or will need to insure that the phantom you do use is on the pass through output side, not on the side that is transformer isolated.  A transformer based splitter will not allow changes in impedence to change the signal level on either side of the split (as was discussed earlier).  For this reason, professional sound companies running sound will use transformer based mic splitter boxes when they need to split the signal.  But a transformer will not pass DC voltage, including 48v phantom.

2)  Using 2 phantom sources will better insure you have adequate current available for the mics to draw from.  For example, Earthworks mics are very power hungry and consume about 10ma per mic, as opposed to most mics that consume 1-2ma per mic.  Many phantom power circuits do not have enough juice to power mics like these adequately.  Using two phantom power sources in parallel allows power hungry mics to get the current they need to operate at their best.

3) a poor phantom design may not have adequate current available, may not provide the standard 48v, may have unacceptable levels of noise, etc.  Using two sources (esp say if one was from a V3 which has good phantom powering) will mask this.  The overall phantom power might be worse than using the V3 alone, but would be far better than only using the preamp with crappy phantom.  So using two phantoms won't allow you to compare on the basis of phantom power, but at least it allows the mics to perform their best so the rest of your preamp comparison means something.

I guess if you know beforehand you've got one of your two preamps that is known to have good phantom power (eg the V3), you can only run the phantom on that unit alone and avoid issues with 2) and 3) above.  But if you don't know anything about either preamp you're running and don't know whether either has good phantom power, by running both together you insure you have an adequate phantom power supply.  And since their is no reason not to run two phantom power circuits, why not do it?
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline Brian

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Re: What was I doing wrong?
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2005, 04:59:58 PM »

Offline goose

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Re: What was I doing wrong?
« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2005, 05:14:37 PM »
corkscrew said:
Quote
Why use 2 phantom sorces? I defy anyone to give a reason to do this...

How about when the two preamps you are comparing send 48v all the time, ala m148/m118?  No way to turn the phantom off on those oade boxes, so it would really seem strange to put a ps2 out front of that mix.

Offline Tim

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Re: What was I doing wrong?
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2005, 05:47:06 PM »
What was I wrong about...get back to me when you have a good reason to run two phantom sources...

You were wrong when you said the idea of using 2 phantom sources was fucked.  Matt and I have both explained that you were wrong and that it is perfectly acceptable and will not cause any problems.

Why use 2 phantom sorces? I defy anyone to give a reason to do this...

Reasons:

1)  if the mic splitter is transformer based, you will need to either use 2 phantom sources or will need to insure that the phantom you do use is on the pass through output side, not on the side that is transformer isolated.  A transformer based splitter will not allow changes in impedence to change the signal level on either side of the split (as was discussed earlier).  For this reason, professional sound companies running sound will use transformer based mic splitter boxes when they need to split the signal.  But a transformer will not pass DC voltage, including 48v phantom.

2)  Using 2 phantom sources will better insure you have adequate current available for the mics to draw from.  For example, Earthworks mics are very power hungry and consume about 10ma per mic, as opposed to most mics that consume 1-2ma per mic.  Many phantom power circuits do not have enough juice to power mics like these adequately.  Using two phantom power sources in parallel allows power hungry mics to get the current they need to operate at their best.

3) a poor phantom design may not have adequate current available, may not provide the standard 48v, may have unacceptable levels of noise, etc.  Using two sources (esp say if one was from a V3 which has good phantom powering) will mask this.  The overall phantom power might be worse than using the V3 alone, but would be far better than only using the preamp with crappy phantom.  So using two phantoms won't allow you to compare on the basis of phantom power, but at least it allows the mics to perform their best so the rest of your preamp comparison means something.

I guess if you know beforehand you've got one of your two preamps that is known to have good phantom power (eg the V3), you can only run the phantom on that unit alone and avoid issues with 2) and 3) above.  But if you don't know anything about either preamp you're running and don't know whether either has good phantom power, by running both together you insure you have an adequate phantom power supply.  And since their is no reason not to run two phantom power circuits, why not do it?

;D

I went out to have a few beers after that last round.... nice work Todd....
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline BCostigan

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Re: What was I doing wrong?
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2005, 05:51:39 PM »
WOW!

Pretty amusing thread!  I must admit my kneejerk reaction was to side with corkscrew thinking two differnet power sources = bad.  Once my AC minded brain realized we were in DC land it was instantly clear.
"A Hippie is someone who walks like Tarzan, looks like Jane, and smells like Cheetah."  ~Ronald Reagan

Offline Tim

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Re: What was I doing wrong?
« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2005, 05:56:45 PM »
Pretty amusing thread! I must admit my kneejerk reaction was to side with corkscrew

I'm going to say that if you should ever find yourself in a similiar situation again just stop and do exactly the opposite :)
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

 

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