Topic: Help me decide my next purchase....

[Nick Graham]

I've got some extra $$$ burning a hole in my pocket, and can't quite decide what to spend it on.

Option #1 - MK41 caps. I tape 99% of the time in small shitty bars, and could really benefit from hyper caps. However, I'd be upgrading mics but still running 16 bit.

Option #2 - Sound Devices 722. 24/96, no worries about starting a new file, no more CF cards, no more DAT tapes. However, I'd have high res copies of shows that could be better with hypers.

Option #3 - Mytek 192. Great sounding 24 bit capable A/D, would interface well with my Microtrack, i.e. no more running line in...(my MT runs fine with S/PDIF, it's the analog inputs that are fucked)

What'd ya think?

[jeromejello]

i voted the hypers... the best thing anyone can do is have more mic-ing options, and since you would use these regularly... besides aint nothing wrong with 16 bit... but the sd 722 was my second choice (although i would go 744/r4 instead)
the mytek is overkill for the microcrapper, imo.

[Nick Graham]

i voted the hypers... the best thing anyone can do is have more mic-ing options, and since you would use these regularly... besides aint nothing wrong with 16 bit... but the sd 722 was my second choice (although i would go 744/r4 instead)
the mytek is overkill for the microcrapper, imo.

I agree on all counts.

I'm almost positive I'm gonna buy more caps, but wanted to see if anyone could sway me in another direction. Even though I upgraded my playback system for 24 bit, I'm still happy with good old DAT for now. Not to mention, I've yet to hear any A/D that pairs up better with Schoeps>Sax than the M1s internal converter.

Oh yeah, there was gonna be a 4th option - get my yard professionally landscaped...

[jeromejello]

nick, i am still bummed that your crowes recording (5/7 i think) had misfires... i find it amazing that my source is the only one circulating for 5/5 and 5/7.

[Nick Graham]

nick, i am still bummed that your crowes recording (5/7 i think) had misfires... i find it amazing that my source is the only one circulating for 5/5 and 5/7.

Yeah, me too! I think the 4 of us were the only tapers that night, and John's source (480>V3) was probably ruined as well, at least he never circulated it. Kevin's (KM185>V3) probably would rock, but as far as I know none of his 2005 tapes have circulated at all...possibly per band request.

I tried for days after that and could never duplicate the problem. I tested every piece of gear and everything seemed to be fine, but that night it was totally screwed up...never had a problem since.

Your tape sold me on AT853s, sounded great - even in a shithole like the Tabernacle.

[tfs8271]

I'm new to all this stuff but I've witnessed and heard...MICS!!!!!

[Josephine]

I voted for THE caps.

[Brian Skalinder]

Option #1 - MK41 caps. I tape 99% of the time in small shitty bars, and could really benefit from hyper caps. However, I'd be upgrading mics but still running 16 bit.

If the venues in which you tape really do sound like shit - crappy acoustics, loud and chatty crowds, unable to set up in the sweet spot, etc. - then I vote for MK41s.  IME, 24-bit resolution of crappy rooms just captures greater detail of the crappy room.  But in a good sounding venue, the extra detail in the music sounds -great- to my ears.

[Kyle]

I voted for the 722 - as much as I want a pair of mk41s (badly) - I want to switch to a non-DAT format and 24bit would be nice - I have reviewed all of the current options and the 722 fits me best. Over the past tenyears I have uograded mics/pre/adc numerous times, but am still running the P1. Dyin' to upgrade it.

Which one do you think you would use the most? Or have the biggest impact on your sound?

[Nick Graham]

Which one do you think you would use the most? Or have the biggest impact on your sound?

As far as using the most, it'd definitely be the 722, as I'd use it constantly.

Biggest impact on sound would be the MK41s. Most of my tapes sound pretty good as is, but hypers would likely help a lot. The few instances where I tape in nicer sounding venues or outside, I'd still have the MK4s.

[Nick Graham]

Option #1 - MK41 caps. I tape 99% of the time in small shitty bars, and could really benefit from hyper caps. However, I'd be upgrading mics but still running 16 bit.

If the venues in which you tape really do sound like shit - crappy acoustics, loud and chatty crowds, unable to set up in the sweet spot, etc. - then I vote for MK41s.  IME, 24-bit resolution of crappy rooms just captures greater detail of the crappy room.  But in a good sounding venue, the extra detail in the music sounds -great- to my ears.

Yeah, that's the dilemma. With the MK41s the extra detail and clarity with 24 bit would be nice, but I can't afford both. At this point I think I'd rather have consistently great 16 bit tapes than better than decent 24 bit.

I could just use the cash for the 722 and throw down the Amex for the MK41s....hmmm...maybe that should be Option #4

[Kyle]

Which one do you think you would use the most? Or have the biggest impact on your sound?

As far as using the most, it'd definitely be the 722, as I'd use it constantly.

Biggest impact on sound would be the MK41s. Most of my tapes sound pretty good as is, but hypers would likely help a lot. The few instances where I tape in nicer sounding venues or outside, I'd still have the MK4s.

How important is 24bit right now? If you are not that hung up on it at the moment, go for the mk41s.

[Ed.]

i say screw the yard and get the caps or the 722.

the only possible benefit of getting the 722, would be you could sell the m1 and the mt2496 most likely which would bring the cost down of the 722.

However, if don't see yourself getting rid of the schoeps anytime soon, go with the caps.  Its always fun to have a plethera of caps.

[284201]

the mytek is overkill for the microcrapper, imo.

Care to explain this?  If all you need is a place to dump your digital data, what's the problem? 

In my mind, "overkill" would be running something like a 722 after a separate pre and a/d.  All I need is a bit bucket, and the MT has been nothing but reliable for me.  No reason lug around a larger box that costs two grand more and does the same job.

EDIT:  Sorry for the hi-jack. I voted for the hypers, FWIW. 

[nickgregory]

I would get the 722...as someone who only has cards available for my use, I have found that venue positioning and configuration changes have helped take average tapes from shitty bars, and make them fantastic with the cards.  I agree that hypers is another way to address the issue, but for the longest time I operated under the premise that if you only have cards, you are out of luck in the shitty bars...not true at all...just takes some experimenteation.

And as for the 722...easily one of the greatest taping purchases I have made...ease of use, sound, etc...worth every dime.

[Nick's Picks]

i voted for the caps.  nothing is keeping you from recording 24bit right now anyway.  the MT can do it for you.  sure, its not the cats ass in a/d, but i'm sure its ok.

nothing worse than high res shitty bars and patron conversation.

[bgalizio]

I voted caps too. It sounds like you'll appreciate them more, taping in rooms with unfavorable acoustics/loud drunks.

[F.O.Bean]

mk41's all the way, like brian said, if you dont have the right caps for the room, you'll just end up w/ a VERY DETAILED shitty room sound, go w/ the mk41's, 16-bit isnt too shabby

[TNJazz]

Well Nick I don't know what YOUR yard looks like, but if it were me I'd put it into landscaping. 

Metro Water has destroyed my front yard and the end of my aggregate driveway in the last 2 weeks, installing new sewer lines or some shit.  I'm going to need some professional help here in the next couple of days, otherwise my front yard will be trashed all summer (they have been parking their damn bobcat on it at night, so it looks like a construction zone!) 

There's something to be said for a well-landscaped home.

Of course if you're hell-bent on spending it on taping gear, it should be the Mytek.   

[jeromejello]

the mytek is overkill for the microcrapper, imo.

Care to explain this?  If all you need is a place to dump your digital data, what's the problem? 

In my mind, "overkill" would be running something like a 722 after a separate pre and a/d.  All I need is a bit bucket, and the MT has been nothing but reliable for me.  No reason lug around a larger box that costs two grand more and does the same job.

EDIT:  Sorry for the hi-jack. I voted for the hypers, FWIW. 

i guess i should qualify why i said that... with nick's current set up mk4>sax>mt it is very stealth and small.  adding the myteck would significantly increase the size.  and while the myteck maybe all that and a bag of chips, the track record of the microtrack would have me thinking 722 before that box.  ymmv.

[Rick]

How about sell the MK4 caps and M1 (to me ) and buy the MK41s and Mytek 192.

 

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

I would get the 722...as someone who only has cards available for my use, I have found that venue positioning and configuration changes have helped take average tapes from shitty bars, and make them fantastic with the cards.  I agree that hypers is another way to address the issue, but for the longest time I operated under the premise that if you only have cards, you are out of luck in the shitty bars...not true at all...just takes some experimenteation.

And as for the 722...easily one of the greatest taping purchases I have made...ease of use, sound, etc...worth every dime.

You gotta help me with the Pour House - after 2 years, I am STILL unhappy with any tape I pull from there...

My vote is new mics...

Terry

[nickgregory]

You gotta help me with the Pour House - after 2 years, I am STILL unhappy with any tape I pull from there...

all about placement....chatty crowds can be a bitch, but as loud as Jac runs it now, they are less of an issue

[sygdwm]

i voted for the 41's. screw the mytek and the 722. get a stock 671 and be done w/ it. 

[scb]

i'd get the 722 if i were you

[Geoff G]

caps.  you can record now, but you don't have hypers

[scb]

the 722 is the best investment i ever made with my rig

[nickgregory]

the 722 is the best investment i ever made with my rig

I'll second that motion

[terrapinj]

722 - I ran Ian's last night for the first time...running that thing is like smoking crack - the second it powers up your hooked 

[dgodwin]

I also voted for the 722.  Sell the microtracker and m1.  Also include the savings for not having to buy DAT tapes for the M1 anymore.  As for shitty venues.. .get closer (do a stack tape?) 

[muj]

I've got some extra $$$ burning a hole in my pocket, and can't quite decide what to spend it on.

Option #1 - MK41 caps. I tape 99% of the time in small shitty bars, and could really benefit from hyper caps. However, I'd be upgrading mics but still running 16 bit.

Option #2 - Sound Devices 722. 24/96, no worries about starting a new file, no more CF cards, no more DAT tapes. However, I'd have high res copies of shows that could be better with hypers.

Option #3 - Mytek 192. Great sounding 24 bit capable A/D, would interface well with my Microtrack, i.e. no more running line in...(my MT runs fine with S/PDIF, it's the analog inputs that are fucked)

What'd ya think?

there's always another ADC to make it more confusing


http://www.lake-people.de/Home_English/inhalt_smart/C440eng/c440eng.html

TECHNICAL DATA ADC C440

Analog inputs:

2 x XLR, electronically balanced, impedance 10 kohms

Input sensitivity:

+2 … +25 dBu

Frequency range:

10 Hz … 20 kHz (- 0,1 dB), 10 Hz … 40 kHz (- 1 dB)

Crosstalk:

< -90 dB (@ 15 kHz)

Resolution:

24 bit / up to 96 kHz

Dynamic range:

> 119 dB (A-wtd)

THD+N:

< -109 dB (@ -1 dBFs)

Internal sync:

44.1 / 48 / 96 kHz

External sync:

WCLK, unbalanced, impedance 75 ohms, 28…108 kHz

Output format:

Pro / Con switchable

Digital outputs:

- XLR, transformer balanced, according to AES 3/11,
  impedance 110 ohms, output voltage > 4 Vss
- Cinch, coaxial, according to IEC 958/AES-3id, 
  impedance 75 ohms, output voltage > 1 Vss

Power supply:

Wallplug adaptor, 9-12 V DC 500 mA

Dimensions:

129 x 42 x 170 mm (W x H x D)

Case:

stainless steel

Finish:

Front and back stainless steel

[Nick's Picks]

vaporware at its finest

[Nick's Picks]

so whats so horny abouut the 722?
does it sound great stock?  is that how folks are running it mostly?

I liked the r4 a lot..as a line or bit bucket.  722...nice and all, but $2k.  I dont know 'bout that action.  I'd rather have 2k in mics.

[scb]

so whats so horny abouut the 722?
does it sound great stock?  is that how folks are running it mostly?

I liked the r4 a lot..as a line or bit bucket.  722...nice and all, but $2k.  I dont know 'bout that action.  I'd rather have 2k in mics.

first off, the 722 is smaller than a v3, which means it's a hell of a lot smaller than an r4

it also doesn't sound bad on its own at all.  the internal a/d is actually pretty good.  if he runs mk4 > sax > 722, that'll be pretty damn nice.   he'll never have to worry about any of the dat related things ever again, or any of the microtrack things ever again.  it's the most reliable recorder i've ever used

you can also run a car over the thing and it'll probably still work

firewire transfer is very convenient

the internal buffers that are always roling are very convenient (hit record a few seconds too late?  no problem, as it was already filling the buffers and was already recording those few seconds before for you)

it's got plenty of other little things which i love, too.  it does everything you'd ever want a recorder to do.  if he wanted to travel light, that's all he'd need...

the big thing for me though, like i said before, is that the 722 will *always* be used. 

if someone really has money to burn, and is condiering a 722, to me that means that the 722 wouldn't kill that person financially.  so, he could go get a second set of caps, which might sit at home half of the time, or a 722, which would go to every show and be used much more. 


question for the original poster:  have you run a 722 before? 

[Kyle]

vaporware at its finest

this unit is not for real??

Could be an ideal solution if it appears (provided it sounds good) - one wallyworld battery and you are off....

[muj]

vaporware at its finest

this unit is not for real??

Could be an ideal solution if it appears (provided it sounds good) - one wallyworld battery and you are off....

yes it is....

[scb]

and it sounds good?

[Kyle]

anyone know the story on this? The specs look spot on - who here has heard this thing?

[284201]

there's always another ADC to make it more confusing ...

Lake People have a DC-powered converter?  Don't get me wrong, I'll solid with the Mytek, but that's pretty interesting.  I don't imagine I'll be hearing it any time soon, though, what with the lack of interest in stand-alone ADC's and the name not being well recognized outside of studio work.

[Nick's Picks]

722...i'd love to have one, but as a budget conscious taper its just not in my cards.  there are other devices out there that sound (i would guess) very good, equal or better to the 722 when used as a line or bit bucket that are under a grand.

glad you like it though.  i'd certainly like to play w/one for a month or so.

i'm not knocking it.

[itook2much]

Buy the 722, sell the m1 and the mt2496 and you're on your way to getting the hypers...or you have the 1st payment on your Amex card

[muj]

there's always another ADC to make it more confusing ...

Lake People have a DC-powered converter?  Don't get me wrong, I'll solid with the Mytek, but that's pretty interesting.  I don't imagine I'll be hearing it any time soon, though, what with the lack of interest in stand-alone ADC's and the name not being well recognized outside of studio work.

most of the lake-people stuff is DC available including mic pre's and headphone amps.

[RebelRebel]

they are here in Germany, (Lake People). their preamps are nothing special. Probably why not many people use them.  Maybe the ADC is good...

I voted for mytek......

[muj]

they are here in Germany, (Lake People). their preamps are nothing special. Probably why not many people use them.  Maybe the ADC is good...

I voted for mytek......

the emad v25 is quite popular, i think jnorman has them(?)

[RebelRebel]

Yeah, I remember someone having them on GS, cant remember who. I dont think they advertise too much, sorta like DAV. A good friend of mine has the f355 with the transformer balanced output option. It sorta reminds me of the GML 8302 that I played with.

[muj]

Yeah, I remember someone having them on GS, cant remember who. I dont think they advertise too much, sorta like DAV. A good friend of mine has the f355 with the transformer balanced output option. It sorta reminds me of the GML 8302 that I played with.

let me know if you get the chance to play with their stuff. they don't have a retailer her in Norway so i was offered the import prices.

[RebelRebel]

Will do Muj, it should be really easy, since I am in Country.

/hijack

[Nick Graham]

I guess I should've put another option - as I decided against all 3 of the above, bought an Edirol R1, and am putting the rest of my extra cash (after paying off all my credit card debt) in savings to help round out my Dave Ramsey inspired "emergency fund".

I still get 24 bit, can live by Nick Gregory and Scott Browns theory of "if you think you need hypers you just need to be closer", and did the responsible thing with the $$$. Feels like I made the right/responsible choice.

[Nick's Picks]

way to go.
Sax>R1 will probably smoke.  iv'e been nothing but impressed w/all the R1 recordings i've heard

[Brian Skalinder]

Good choice, Nick.  Dave (Neutrino) runs MK4 > Sax > R1 and it sounds fantastic!  You'll be happy.

[grider]

you have a great small rig, make it even better, without changing it at all, with the hyper caps, people love the sound of the 41's too

[cdevs]

SELL THE HOUSE
SELL THE CAR
SELL THE KIDS
BUY IT ALL!

[Geoff G]

"if you think you need hypers you just need to be closer",

Never heard that, but I like it!

[F.O.Bean]

you have a great small rig, make it even better, without changing it at all, with the hyper caps, people love the sound of the 41's too

agreed, hypers sound GREAT upfront too, w/out the chattering when stealthing