Topic: Newbie: Jazz Taping

[Lexus507]

I have been a lurker for a while and am hoping to get into taping. I mainly have an interest to tape local Chicago jazz acts. However, I would also like the versatility to tape some rock shows. The Jazz shows are usually not amplified and are in pretty small places. I am therefore looking to catch as much detail as possible so I want a 24 bit recording rig. I was wondering if maybe C4's>UA5>microtrack(spdif) would work well for my purposes. I like the omni possibilities of the c4's and I will probably attempt to build some sort of J-disc to do omni recording or to try my MSH-1O's out. I am more of a home recording guy, so I do have some idea of what I am doing, but I do now know anything about portable power or really how mics work in a venue setting. I was hoping anyone who has done taping of acoustic jazz could tell me if they think this kid of set up would work well.

[BayTaynt3d]

Well, two things. You probably want an "up front" sound for jazz, so this means getting close and maybe using cards more than omnis. Not to say omnis won't work, they will and they'll sound great, but I'd make sure to get close with omnis and not use them unless its a "listening" crowd and now a bar or a restaurant (which jazz is so delegated to these days). Also, J-Discs are great, and I own one myself, but using them up front can be obnoxious and not-too-discreet, so head's up on that too.

[Lexus507]

Thanks! Usually they are most definitely "listening" crowds. Sometime I will tape at an art foundation which does not have the usually bar sounds etc. Also, I will be taping at a few bars/music venues, but on the nights for this kind of music the crowd is usually pretty silent. One problem however is the heating/air conditioning at these places...the crowd is nice and quiet, but the blowers aren't.
Thanks again for the help!

[ingsy]

my .02 - run the omnis onstage, split 4 feet, on small kick drum type stands.  you will be away from the blowers, and since the crowd is silent it should come out OK. 

[Gutbucket]

What they said. 
I run omnis from the front row or as close as I can get, usually small theaters, churches, or halls with quiet 'jazz' audiences.  Get up close, on stage if you can.  I like running omnis for this type of stuff because even if I can't get a super present up close sound from some instruments (often  piano), if the room is decent and the crowd respectful, the sense of ambience and depth is superb and often more natural sounding to me than having all the instruments up front, super clear and 'in your face'.  It can be quite nice to have, say, the sax sound up front and the piano a little deeper in the soundstage.  All depends on how you like you jazz to sound.

-edit
a few things I've recorded recently have the soloist standing at the front lip of the stage sometimes, almost in my lap in the front row.  In this case 'on stage' would have been too close, behind or under the soloist even, but generally proximity is your friend with acoustic shows, IME.

[Church-Audio]

I personally have always liked omni mics for Jazz. I find it gives you more of the small club sound, ambiance. Cardioids will work to, but like others have said you have to be close to work them right with Jazz.. What would be really cool is some cards close up and a pair of widely spaced omni to get the "room" sound.

[NJFunk]

As far as the rig goes, C4 > UA-5 > MT is a highly versatile, portable, and cost effective rig that sounds great.  That would be a perfect choice.  Try to get a performance modded UA-5 or send your UA-5 to Busman to get it performance modded.  You'll definitely notice the difference in sound quality.

[Shawn]

send your UA-5 to Busman to get it performance modded.  You'll definitely notice the difference in sound quality.

QFT

[Lexus507]

I have seen that UA5's with various mods float around all the time. What do the different mods mean? Like digi-mod...I see that all the time.

[BayTaynt3d]

I have seen that UA5's with various mods float around all the time. What do the different mods mean? Like digi-mod...I see that all the time.

If you want to go digital from the UA5 to your recorder (JB3/H120/MT) without using a computer, you have to have a digi-modded UA5 -- otherwise you need a computer in the mix. For most most the digi-mod is a MUST-HAVE. All of the other mods change the sound and noise floor and other acoustic elements.

[Lexus507]

So if I want to use the  SPDIF out of the UA5, I would need this? Also, how much does a mod generally run?

[BayTaynt3d]

So if I want to use the  SPDIF out of the UA5, I would need this? Also, how much does a mod generally run?

If you don't want to use a laptop too, then yes.

[Lexus507]

Would I wan't the UA5 to do the A/D conversion or would I wan't the microtrack to? I could just send the outs on the UA5 to the ins on the microtrack and save myself the money on the digi-mod.

[MattD]

The UA5 likely has a much better ADC than the microtrack. However, they're your ears. Try both and see what you like.

[BayTaynt3d]

Well, one way to put it is like this... The UA5's ADC has had a LOT of use over the years and can be heard in a lot of sources over that time, and it's passed the test for being a pretty decent solution. The MT hasn't been around as long and has also had some issues. So, seems to me the obvious route is to just run a bit bucket behide it and not worry about it, which is why a basic digi-mod is the main mod everyone always has. I don't think you see too many people record off the analog outs of the UA5 very often, but maybe I'm wrong on that? I'm not sure, but the analog outs may also go: XLR Ins > ADC > DAC > RCA Outs. Could be wrong on that too, but all this begs why  everyone ran UA5 > Digi > JB3 for a long time -- it's a proven, field-tested rig.