Topic: Noob questions: Mics + Tascam vs Sound Devices deck

[sea-speak]

Yeah, I was looking at the FR2LE as well. I talked to Doug Oade about it and he said that with his mods it would be about as good as an unmodded Tascam HDP2. Seems like the FR2LE would be a good size to start with, get my feet wet.

I like the idea of two of these little mics like the 4021 or the Milab... hmm. Would these mics be better sounding than say a pair of Earthworks QTCs or would they sacrifice a bit of quality for small size? Trying to get a sense of the tradeoffs here. Do I want cardioid or omni? I don't really understand the tradeoffs there either.

Also -- what accessories would I want? Sorry again to be so noobie but if you could walk me through all the junk that makes this work together that would be *great*. (bag? mic mount? with a Milab type of mic would I need windscreens/fur coats?)

thanks a bunch. I'm making progress!

[grider]

the DPA's are as good as any generally used high end microphone, in the DPA/Schoeps/Neumann category of popularly used live recording microphones, with that said of course there is much better mics available and like anything else you can spend as much as you like, but for our live music and even studio applications these are very high quality mics, check out the website at dpamicrophones.com, they are widely used in classical music applications for their transparent sound

[sea-speak]

Ok, thanks. I know that DPA makes good stuff!

Put another way - would I be better off (purely from a sound quality POV) with a Lunatec V3 and a Fostex FR2le than with a Sound Devices 702 by itself? If so then I could start with the Fostex and then add a Lunatec later if I wanted to upgrade the sound.

Also, where are the right places to look for used mics? Here on the board exclusively? Any other good places?

[Tim]

I like the idea of two of these little mics like the 4021 or the Milab... hmm. Would these mics be better sounding than say a pair of Earthworks QTCs or would they sacrifice a bit of quality for small size?

There's no trade-off with the small size of the 4021's or the Milab's. I can't comment on the quality of the EW's but the DPA's and the Milab's are very high quality microphones, you will be pleased with either. DPA/Schoeps/Neumann/Milab - I don't think you'll go wrong with any of them.

Trying to get a sense of the tradeoffs here. Do I want cardioid or omni? I don't really understand the tradeoffs there either.

Also -- what accessories would I want? Sorry again to be so noobie but if you could walk me through all the junk that makes this work together that would be *great*. (bag? mic mount? with a Milab type of mic would I need windscreens/fur coats?)

thanks a bunch. I'm making progress!

try here, http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,35004.0.html

for an explanation on the differences between cardioid and omni check out the Microphone University here, http://www.dpamicrophones.com/

[Todd R]

Yep, I think when you start comparing Schoeps, DPAs, Neumanns, Milabs, Earthworks, etc, you probably are getting into which particular flavor you like -- all are very high quality. 

You need to be careful with the Earthworks on what you pair them with, since they draw 10ma of phantom power each, which is the upper limit for the phantom power spec, and not all preamps/recorders are available to provide that much juice.  Most other condensors draw around 2-5ma of power, so it isn't generally an issue providing the necessary power to them.

As to omni vs cardioid, the cardioid mics are probably a better all-round general purpose mic.  Depending on how you conduct interviews though, maybe you'd prefer omnis.

As to the other stuff, you'll probably need:  mic cables (or shorter XLR interconnect cables if using mic body + active cable/capsule arrangements), rechargeable batteries (either internal or external) + charger, a microphone stand(s), some kind of bag to house everything (Lowepro AW nova series is popular and pretty cheap, or the professional Portabrace or Petrol bags), a stereo T-bar to hold two mics.  Lots of options on all this stuff if you search around on ts.com.

On the mic stand issue, many tapers here use large lighting stands with the appropriate adapters to get a 9-13' mic stand.  If you are doing interviews across a table for instance, you might want little 3"-6" table top mic stands.  It all really depends on your application.

[digifish_music]

Ok - got it. So... what are some good 'low profile' mounts to hold a mic in the field? If you have recommendations for compact/lightweight mic stands for floor use that would also be really useful to me.

This is a great solution, cheap, light-weight...it's a mic stand being hand held, yes that's me.



It's nothing more than the Rode SM4 or 3 depending on your preferences...



I attach this to a camera tripod, that opens up a whole range of light-weight options, from those mini-desk models to mono-pods and normal ones. You will need an adapter too...although the SM4 and SM3 (I am holding) disassemble to reveal a camera tripod thread on the flat metal plate horizontal with the mic.

You can always screw in the shaft from a desk-stand to the mic mount if you need some more grip or simply fold up one of these.

Or get a blimp and use the holder from that...

digifish

[sea-speak]

That's what I'm talking about! Looks perfect. Hmm.

-Where do you get the grip that screws into the shockmount?

-So I could use that with a pair of compact mics (like the Milab VM44 Link) assuming I have them mounted on some kind of holder, right?

-Are there 'standard' holders for compact mics or do all of them require custom holders?

[digifish_music]

That's what I'm talking about! Looks perfect. Hmm.

1. Where do you get the grip that screws into the shockmount?

2. Are there 'standard' holders for compact mics or do all of them require custom holders?

I was editing my post so you may have missed...

1. You can always screw in the shaft from a desk-stand to the mic mount if you need some more grip or simply fold up one of these.

Depends on how long you will be holding it but you could find some pipe insulation and slip it over the desk-stand shaft as shown above.



2. The holder like the SM3 and SM4 will fit almost any compact mic, the NT4 is at the upper limit of what it can cope with BTW, weight and size.

digifish

[digifish_music]

isn't that shockmount pretty much bottomed out with that mic?

It's at the usable limit, but it's OK.

digifish

[Tim]

flashbacks Moke?

[Tim]

I can't believe you guys used to hand hold those heavy suckers! Made your arms look good for all of the hippie girls though, right?

[digifish_music]

that rode stereo mic is a big mic. I've run accross them on occasion.
is it heavy?

I've handheld my share of big mics, and that can be a grind. I don't much miss that part of the whole game.

Yup, about 480 g (16.8 Oz).

Not something to hold for a long time. That said in a blimp I have never found it to be an issue.

digifish

[digifish_music]

digifish,

you seem keen on Rode.
Have you looked into their remote capsule/cable mics?
(sorry - I don't know the model numbers)

Rode gear is made locally for me, so it's a value proposition that is hard to look past. Rode mics are very quiet, something that is an obsession with me and are also very well made, and backed up with a 10 year garantee.

You are thinking of the NT6...



Is just an NT55 on a cable extender - http://www.rodemic.com/multimedia/NT6_High_WMV.wmv

I love the NT5 (studio work mainly) so the NT6 is going to be a nice mic. Capsules avaliable are Cardioid (same as NT4 and 5) and Omni.

It's interesting that on these forums Rode seems not to be that popular, in the studio side of things their mics are huge.

digifish

[stevetoney]

Put another way - would I be better off (purely from a sound quality POV) with a Lunatec V3 and a Fostex FR2le than with a Sound Devices 702 by itself? If so then I could start with the Fostex and then add a Lunatec later if I wanted to upgrade the sound.

I'm jumping in  a little late but found this thread interesting. 

As you know, the term 'sound quality' is subjective, so the best answer that anyone could provide is to suggest that you should decide for yourself based on what you like. 

I've recently owned the Oade WCM Mod FR2LE and currently have a SD702.  The 702 provides greater detail and crispy sound than the WCM.  Without any other pre-amps, if your decision were between these two alone, you'd be deciding between a warmer mellower sound (Oade WCM FR2LE) or a brigher crisper more detailed sound (SD702). 

Having said this, to more directly answer your question, I never ran any preamp in front of the Fostex since it was already an Oade modded box.  However, I've found that there are enough samples on Live Music Archive that, if you listen to enough different samples, you can get a reasonable feel for each product so that you can at least begin to form your own opinion about what the V3 does to the sound vs. a 702/722/744.

Good luck!

Steve

[sea-speak]

I'm at a bit of an impasse. I finally processed the fact that the FR2LE has no spdif digital in/out. So there's no upgrade path (ie, the V3) that turns the FR2LE into a bit bucket. And I looked at the dimensions of the HDP2 and decided that was a bit bulky for spur of the moment fun. (Not too bulky for packing when there's something I specifically want to record, on the other hand.)

That leaves me at...
FR2LE with Oade super mod and no upgrade path (right on budget) OR Sound Devices 702 (budget busting!) and the possibility of going to a V3 preamp/ AD without selling & buying a new recorder. If the V3 offers any improvement over the stock 702 mic pre and A/D, that is. I now feel the pain of all those people on the FR2LE threads who were upset at the lack of digital in/out.

As for mics, the Milab VM44 Links look good, as do the DPA 4020 series. I could swing the Milabs new, or the DPAs used. The Rode shockmount looks good. DPA sells the windscreens for compact mics. I can sort out tripods, grips, etc. now.

So I guess my remaining questions are: 1) any further words of wisdom on the above options? 2) are there any nice 'standard' stereo mounts/bars for compact mics that would work with the Rode shockmount? and 3) I see continued reference to the idea that 4020s can be had used for $2200 or so, but it's not clear where these used items are being sold. Any other sites I should check?

I need to buy this rig before xmas, as that's the only time during the year I see some of my relatives, and some are getting into their mid 80s, and I want to record them telling family stories before it's too late.

Thanks a bunch for all the advice so far, it has helped a lot!

Brandt