Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: vibralux on May 15, 2009, 07:15:18 AM
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Hi guys
Im a newb here so please forgive me any obvious questions.
I just bought a PMD 661 (supermod) for stealth recordings. Now - I wanted to by Church's mics for it. There is a good deal for his mic's and a pre - but I am wondering - is there a noticeable difference between PMD's pres and Church Audio Pre? Should I go for it or just buy the mic's?
Cheers
Marty
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I don't think that you'd need the church pre, as I think the PMD-661 is quite good on it's own (especially after being modded by oade).
however, you are going to need a way to power your mics. The PMD-661 provides phantom power via XLR inputs, and if you've got church audio mics, than you'll likely need plug-in power via an 1/8" connector (please correct me if I'm wrong there). The 1/8" input on the PMD-661 is a line-in only, and doesn't provide any power for mics.
as an alternative to buying a separate box just to power the mics, I know the Naiant studios (aka "mshilarious" on taperssection) makes a nice little adapter:
http://www.naiant.com/studiostore/cleverdevices.html
and scroll down to the "PFA-P Phantom Adaptor for Stereo Plug-in Power Microphones"
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While Im sure the Oade mod sounds great - and you have it there if you get full size condenser mics...
But the Church stuff gets great reviews as well...
I think the Church pre outputs a line level - so you should be good there...
The XLRs take a line signal also, I believe. So you still might be able to reap the benefits of the Oade mod there as well...
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While Im sure the Oade mod sounds great - and you have it there if you get full size condenser mics...
But the Church stuff gets great reviews as well...
I think the Church pre outputs a line level - so you should be good there...
The XLRs take a line signal also, I believe. So you still might be able to reap the benefits of the Oade mod there as well...
If he gets the Church box, he can just run the 1/8" stero out from that to the 1/8" line in on the 661, but it will not pass through the mod. Line in on the XLRs is 14db less sensitive than the unbalanced line inputs on recorders, and you need a hot preamp to use the XLRs line. I am confused about the OP getting a Supermod for stealth concert taping. That's a mighty sensitive nature recording modification. Maybe he's doing classical or chamber music?
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Hi
Thanks for Your suggestions - so I guess the Church pre is essential? I was wondering how is the phantom power distributed via the small jack on Church mics ;- ) Now I know it...
I will not record a classical music. The idea is to record people's conversations while they are shopping and put those togehter with music as samples. I will also use another mic - the AKG c535 EB for recording sound fx and some music, or industial noises - thats why I chose the supermod - I thought its the most flexible. So basically I need the Church mic's for recording dialogues- stealth ;-)
So do You think that the adapter will suffice? Or I should spring for this Church pre? And do I need both omni and cards capsules? I was initially thinking only about the cards.
Thanks for help!!!
Marty
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Hi guys
Im a newb here so please forgive me any obvious questions.
I just bought a PMD 661 (supermod) for stealth recordings. Now - I wanted to by Church's mics for it. There is a good deal for his mic's and a pre - but I am wondering - is there a noticeable difference between PMD's pres and Church Audio Pre? Should I go for it or just buy the mic's?
Cheers
Marty
If you're just planning on running Church mics, you should probably just get a R-09HR (or similar) recorder since the size difference between it and a 661 is rather significant, which ought to be important with stealthing. Otherwise, maybe you should try some more expensive mics that use phantom, might I suggest Schoeps CCM4... that would make a nice stealth rig. :P
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Thanks for Your suggestions - so I guess the Church pre is essential? I was wondering how is the phantom power distributed via the small jack on Church mics ;- ) Now I know it...
I will not record a classical music. The idea is to record people's conversations while they are shopping and put those togehter with music as samples. I will also use another mic - the AKG c535 EB for recording sound fx and some music, or industial noises - thats why I chose the supermod - I thought its the most flexible. So basically I need the Church mic's for recording dialogues- stealth ;-)
So do You think that the adapter will suffice? Or I should spring for this Church pre? And do I need both omni and cards capsules? I was initially thinking only about the cards.
Thanks for help!!!
Marty
Hmm. Stealthing conversations, that's somewhat odd but hey, whatever rocks your boat. :P
For stealthing speech near you in a noisy mall environment, you might want cards but will need to keep your head directed at your 'target' to get the best results. Omnis might be useful since you won't have to be so strict with the direction your mics are pointed, but might pick up a lot of ambient noise. The pre would be useful for your situation since it gives you nice, clean gain (e.g. less noise/hiss), so I would spring for the pre/omni/cards package and try it out. Good luck!
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I know its odd, but I specialize in odd ;-) You would be surprised what kind of weird things people are saying while shopping....
But You are right about the omnis - people might get a bit pissed off, if they notice me staring at them to get a best pickup with cards ; -) So the omnis might be a key here. Oh - one more thing - I was thinking about those "croakie" mics -is that a good idea? Like mounting it to my glasses?
Peace
M
P.S As for a smaller recording device - Marantz is optimal since I also want to record some high quality music and foley fx with akg c535 eb
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I think the phantom power adapter (to convert the phantom power to plug-in power) is a better option than the separate pre-amp. Less boxes to deal with, and the pre-amp in the PMD-661 is just fine, you shouldn't have any problem getting clean gain from the internal pre-amp.
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I think the phantom power adapter (to convert the phantom power to plug-in power) is a better option than the separate pre-amp.
Agree. Remember that Chris Church offers his mics with custom mini-XLR connectors too. That way, you can use either Naiant PFA-M, or third-party phantom adapters like Samson or AT. Even better than PIP...
And when it comes to the size of your gear: don't bother comparing with R-09HR. For your usage, you don't have to pass thru a pat-down, so whatever you can carry in a waist-pack or under a jacket will work just fine.
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Get a Church Battery Box (runs on 9v battery), and an 1/8inch > XLR (male) cable. Run Mics > BB > Deck with NO phantom power. I repeat... NO phantom power. Your mics would get power from the BB. IMO, this would be easiest, smallest, cheapest and you could utilize the SuperMOD. And it should sound good too!
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That is a great idea – I'll check it out. The PMD 661 finallly arrived and I tried it with Beta 87A, Brauner AE and Shure KSM 44. The preamps are indeed quite good. While coupled with the Brauner, I would overload almost any source halfway the gain ;-). So now I am definitely positive that I do not need an extra pre.
Thanks for help people!
Marty
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Marty,
make sure whatever pre you get has a balanced output. The 661 will not take an unbalanced input from a pre. I attempted to run my oade m118 into the 661, and it had a distorted noise on the recording. i bought the 661 as a back-up deck and a bit bucket. i can run it through the 1/8 inch input, but not the xlr's.
Richard
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Get the Naiant PFA. I am very happy with mine. It will allow you to run the Church mics directly into the 661.
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Croakies work fine for me. No one notices them on my glasses. Mine has black cloth on them. As long as my hair doesn't turn grey, I'll be OK. I'm 51, so this may not be a long term solution for me unless I start dyeing my hair.
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I think the phantom power adapter (to convert the phantom power to plug-in power) is a better option than the separate pre-amp. Less boxes to deal with, and the pre-amp in the PMD-661 is just fine, you shouldn't have any problem getting clean gain from the internal pre-amp.
Agreed. The one I have came from Sound Professionals.
Pat
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Ok - I finally ordered the Naiant PFA-P and CA14's cards and omnis – this seems to be the least cluttered and clean option.
Thanks for the tips guys. And now I have to wait, which I hate ;-)
Have a good weekend
Marty