Topic: If you had to mic a drum kit with just ONE mic, where would you put it?

[BayTaynt3d]

I've been doing a lot of acoustic jazz recordings lately with my R4 (see website in sig). I typically run in one of three configs for these gigs:

1. Single stereo pair in any number of different configs
2. Stereo pair plus one or two spot mics on instruments that I expect to be weak in the mix
3. for duos, trios, and quartets, sometimes I spot mic every instrument and don't even run a stereo pair at all

For 2 and 3, let's just say, I'm learning a lot about phase, but I'm getting better, and having the extra channels has made for some killer recordings. I've been doing a lot of reading up on spot micing various acoustic instruments (and amps), dealing with phase, the 3:1 rule, etc., and the one thing that is interesting is how the guerilla-style of audience recording like this flys in the face of home studio and pro recordists sometimes.

For example, I seriously don't care that much how a pro would mic up a drum kit with ten mics or a piano with four mics, etc. I'm coming in old-school, indie-style, and I'm figuring out how to mic each instrument with a single mic. The obviously big challenge in that pursuit is the drumkit. I've tried it a bunch of ways at this point, and I've found a few suggestions for single-mic setups for drums on the web, but I was wondering if any of you might have an opinion on this subject.

So far, I've had the best results using a single overhead about two feet higher and foward of the drummer's head pointing straight down. I usually do this with a card, but I've tried a hyper before when I was really worried about bleed from other instruments. This seems to pick up detail from the entire kit with the exception of the kick drum, which is weak but still audible (and I find the kick bleeds into the other mics too sometimes, so that actually helps a little). It's actually quite amazing what mixing in a tiny bit of that overhead into a stereo pair does for the detail of the drums (I often have to EQ the cymbals down a little because the overhead picks them up almost too well, but after EQ'ing or even de-essing those high hats, this has worked great). I've also heard of running a single mic out in front of the kit kind of inbetween the hieght of the kick and the cymbals, but not sure that one worked out as well for me (although it's easier to setup and less obtrusive to the drummer). The thing about over the head of the drummer, is that (in jazz at least), the drummer is playing with balance to his own ears, so getting near his/her head means you're picking up that balance that the drummer hears.

Thoughts? Ideas?

[Brian Skalinder]

Not much help here, but...FWIW...

Same challenges here capturing a drum kit with a single mic.  I've mostly done the same as you - single mic forward and above the kit, pointing down.  I think once I tried placement in between the kick and cymbals, but if I recall correctly I got more kick at the expense of losing much of the air in the cymbal strike and decay.  Give it a try and see what you think.  I know I will again. 

[BayTaynt3d]

I've mostly done the same as you - single mic forward and above the kit, pointing down.

So, not sure I described my current method good enough, but what I've been doing is using one overhead in front and above the drummer's head, but it's actually BEHIND the drumkit. So, although I've tried setting up in front of the drumkit, after reading about how sometimes a stereo pair is used XY above a drummer's head (and even sometimes in the studio, one mic over each ear biaural-style), I figured it was worth trying a single mic in the same location. All in all, it's the best spot I've found yet, but the drummer obviously has to be cool with it.

[Brian Skalinder]

So, not sure I described my current method good enough, but what I've been doing is using one overhead in front and above the drummer's head, but it's actually BEHIND the drumkit. So, although I've tried setting up in front of the drumkit, after reading about how sometimes a stereo pair is used XY above a drummer's head (and even sometimes in the studio, one mic over each ear biaural-style), I figured it was worth trying a single mic in the same location. All in all, it's the best spot I've found yet, but the drummer obviously has to be cool with it.

Ahhh...I misunderstood.  I get it now - thanks!  May have to try this on Fri for Eastern Blok if I run 3 mics on stage.

[BayTaynt3d]

Here's an interesting idea I found randomly on the Net. Not sure, but it might be worth fooling around with just for fun:

On a live jazz recording I did while still a student, I had only 8-tracks, had a main pair at the front of the stage and mono spot mics on each part of the group with only one mono overhead for drums. In mixdown, I split that mono overhead into 3 parts, low, mid & high, then panned the mid slightly right and the high slightly left, compressed all three independently to varying degrees and had a very convincingly "stereo" spot mic that blended in very well to the main pair to give a nice spread to the drums on the final mix.

Another interesting thing I've found is that the bleed of the drums onto the other mics (whether it is a main stereo pair or individual spots mics into my R4) can actually help give a little space and seperation to the drums when I only use one overhead.

Anyway, thought this was worth sharing in the thread I started on the subject.

[muj]

the easiest would be a stereo mic.

[Nick's Picks]

I used to mic the drums in my band....and at the time I used 3 mics for the job, but one would have worked.

we had C1000s as spot mics, high and pointing in on the flanks.   Almost even w/where the drummer sat.
and then I put my ST-250 in front, centered between two toms, and a couple splash / crashes he had setup. and maybe 4' high and out 3' from the kit.

Honest, the times we just mixed the B format down or even in two channel XY mode, the soundfield sounded just like you pulled up  a chair and sat 4' in front of the drummer.  it was awesome.
I would think any stereo mic would perform the same.

[BayTaynt3d]

Guys, thanks, but you're WAY OFF-TOPIC. I know I can use a stereo pair as overheads, and I know I can put a mic in front of the kick, and I know I could mic up every freakin' drum and cymbal in the kit... That wasn't the question.

The question is, if you had to mic a drumkit with a SINGLE MONO mic, how would you do it?

[Nick's Picks]

4' in front, pointing at the kit and centered as possible.  move in / out, up / down to tailor.

or, hanging right over the drummers head, poingin center kit (and not straight down).

but..what do I know.  i'm not an eng.

[BayTaynt3d]

4' in front, pointing at the kit and centered as possible.  move in / out, up / down to tailor.

or, hanging right over the drummers head, poingin center kit (and not straight down).

but..what do I know.  i'm not an eng.

Thanks. I've been using you're second approach and getting better results usually than the first approach. It seems being near the drummer's head is good because the drummer is managing his dynamic range as he hears it (at least in an acoustic jazz setting with no monitors, etc.).

[Nick's Picks]

"binaural reinforcement"

[Chanher]

I've tried placing a single cardioid condensor right in-between and below the snare and hi-hat, pointing up towards the ceiling. The mic is close to the kick, but still off-axis which helps. Snare and hi-hat obviously sounded nice. the cymbals sounded different. probably not as good as overheads, but not necessarily bad. this was a jazz quartet and the resulting mix down was very nice.

I tried the very same thing for a loud rock band. Condensor could not handle that kick, it was distorting/overloading. I wish at the time I would have tried the bass-roll off on the mic. I guess that's why they make kick mics.

I am trying your "near the drummers head" next.

In february, an Edirol rep told a TS member that they are working on a 6-channel version for surround sound.

[allan]

I know a guy that sets a 58 right in front of him on top of the kick, from what I recall, it sounded pretty good.

[TNJazz]

From behind, over the drummer's right shoulder.  Use an LDC.

[rokpunk]

hmmm, hard to just with just ONE mic....
if i had to do it that way i'd say an Earthworks SR25, centered over the kit, not very high up.
3 of these mics will get you a KILLER drum sound.