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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: silentmark on July 08, 2008, 09:47:23 AM
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OK I am convinced that shockmounts are a waste of money, depending on what type you use of course ;)
In any case I taped the Crystal Ballroom out in Portland a few weeks ago http://www.archive.org/details.php?identifier=rre2008-06-20.ak4020.flac16&newflash=1 and if you know the venue, the floor is spring loaded. Well it was bouncing alot and my stand was going right along with it, up down and side to side. I used a static M/S mount and I'll be dammed if I can hear any interference that wasn't from onstage or the PA's. This was a true test imho and as of now I am in the camp of "you don't need shockmounts, as they are a taping urban legend."
Anyone else feel the same ? Am I off in my reasoning/"test" ? I am just curious ...
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My main interest in shock mounts is for when someone trips/falls & decides to grab hold of your stand. I have *definitely* heard some thumps that traveled through the stand to the mics on some of my recordings. It's not a huge problem for me, but they are a relatively cheap insurance policy. :)
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I thnk a lot depends on the low end response of your mics. The affects of low end vibrations can be subtle in some circumstances and downright annoying in others. To my ears the super low end is accentuated. Try touching your stand during the set. Do you feel it vibrating? If so that virbration is getting in to your mix.
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I ran my AKG 460s from '94 until around 2002 using the stock mic clips that come with them, and rarely had issues with hearing bumps, and I know my stand was whacked many times at GD, Phish, and WSP shows in the early '90s where I seldom heard anything on playback that was louder than the sound pressure of the show enough to make it audible. Similar to the OP's recent experience.
However, I started taping more in clubs in 2002, and I definately noticed the vibration caused bass resonance that was picked up through the stand coupling to the floor that you don't get as much when taping in large venues off big line array PAs. For this reason, I got a pair of the A53M Shure donuts and instantly noticed the bass was audibly tighter and cleaner, particularly when taping in boomy clubs.
Shockmounts are clearly beneficial for reducing both bass resonance and bumps in lower sound pressure situations such as on stage for unamplified acoustic instruments, which explains their wide use in professional settings. So, are shockmounts a "taping urban legend"? I guess it depends on your application.
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Before I used shockmounts, I've had instances where a jolt to the stand was heard as a kind of snap! sound, not a loud snap, but more of a pop like you might hear on an LP. After hearing that, went w/ AT shock mounts and have not heard anything like that since even w/ wookies bumping into it...
Due to the size of the AT8053s (I think that's it), I'm gonna try switching to a modified Hercules isolation mount. I removed the springs and replaced them with O-rings like on the Avantone's. Seems to support the T-Bar nicely, and it's much more compact.
Some sort of isolation from metal on metal or hard plastic is a good thing, no ?
/Ken
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I think shocks like the AT8410As are total over kill.
So I decided to lower my profile and went with a set of Windtech SP20s. Really liked the concept, nice low profile. But the bands are not quite elastic enough to prevent impact noises. I had several loud bumps transfer pretty strongly to the mics taping Ratdog at the Beacon where I had my stand corded to the seat arm rest instead of the tripod spread out and the main risers took the brunt of the impact..
So I compromised and ended up with a set of Avantones, and have no issues with them. Some people complain they are too heavy. Heavy is relative. Run LDs a few times and your concept of what's heavy changes completely.
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IMO and experience shock mounts are very useful for deflecting spuntards and beach balls without audible evidence.
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I never use shock mounts, and I've never heard anything on my tapes. I'm definitely in the "you don't need shockmounts" camp.
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I just use SP20's.
Not sure how much shock absorption they have but, no issues.
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Tell these guys. :P Man that thing is spendy. :o
http://www.lasvegasproaudio.com/m600.html
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Before using shocks I've definitely had distortion from people contacting the stand. Even with minimal inteference I've had impact my recordings. At one point I set up my gear in the living room with and without shocks and messed with the stand to see the difference. It was very noticeable. Wether or not the music it self creates enough vibes to affect things I don't know... But since I have the shocks I use them all the time.
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Tell these guys. :P Man that thing is spendy. :o
http://www.lasvegasproaudio.com/m600.html
From their website:
WHAT IT DOESN’T DO: As a super rigid mic mount, the M600 would be ineffective at eliminating induced mechanical noise, such a thump on the stand or a big bumps on the floor that could be transmitted up the stand. Shock mounts are designed to mechanically isolate a mic from thumps and bumps, the M600 does not do this.
I have Shocks, but probably don't need them... But I use them, why not?!?
Terry
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At least they look cool and make you look important.
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At least they look cool and make you look important.
Hahaha! Definitely!
Terry
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Some mics are much more susceptible than others. I have them for most of my mics and I use them.
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I think these are the best in-between solution. they resemble non-shock mounts but they are shock mounts! I am on the fence about shock mounts. They help in some situations...
Can you say 'doughnuts'.....mmmmm, I thought so!
(http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/2/4/7/371247.jpg)
I think at the Crystal Ballroom, the frequency of the floor bouncing may be too low to pickup, but what the heck do I know?
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Thanks for the note about the spring loaded floor at crystal ballroom. I heard that the wonder ballroom was the only floor in the portland area like that. They tend to mess with the cameras just a little as well.
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Tell these guys. :P Man that thing is spendy. :o
http://www.lasvegasproaudio.com/m600.html
as one of you pointed out, this thing does not keep unwanted sound away. i was clamped to a table, and whenever people set down a beer, i heard it on the recording. after that i fixed the mount that came with the c422, and havent looked back. and i have had folks kick the stand, grab the stand, etc. but with the bands suspending the mic, i hear none of that garbage...
the enhanced audio mount is nice, and it would be great in a studio environment, where wookies and drunks are not an issue; in the field, the thing is worthless 'cos it doesnt get rid of the unwanted sounds caused by knocking/etc. the stand or clamp/pole...
if you are interested in buying the enhanced audio mount, drop me a line - it is for sale.
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As some people have noted, shock mounts may be needed more or needed less depending on the microphones you're using. The odd thing is that shock mounts are needed more often for the kinds of microphones that don't have the most extended low-frequency response as far as sound itself is concerned.
To be specific: Pure pressure transducers (for most folks here, single-diaphragm omni condensers) may well need no shock mounting at all, even though as a rule their low-frequency response goes the deepest of all. But they are relatively insensitive to physical vibration, in part because their diaphragm tension is relatively high. And pure pressure-gradient transducers (figure-8s), and highly directional microphones such as supercardioids which have mainly pressure-gradient sensitivity, generally have rolled-off low-frequency response--yet they're the most sensitive to picking up noise from external vibrations.
A few years ago I was recording a classical chamber ensemble with a pair of single diaphragm "wide cardioids"--mainly pressure transducers with a certain amount of pressure gradient response mixed in. Between two pieces there was some rearrangement of the players, so to keep the recording in good balance I picked up the entire mike stand, moved it and set it down while continuing to record. I was using only a fairly basic shock mount but on the recording there is no noise whatsoever. That definitely wouldn't have worked out as well if I'd been using my supercardioids (which are also more sensitive to the noise from any air motion, and thus tend to need wind screens or pop screens more).
--best regards
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I personally never use shock mounts. I just stick my kwon bar on a mic clip and stick that on my stand and it seems to work fine in all the shows I've taped. Don't think you'll really notice anything in loud rock concert recordings.
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I've used them and not used them with really no different results.
After using the standard akg clips for a while I don't really like the
wear and tear they can have on the mic bodies - sliding them in
and out all the time. So I've gone to a pair of shock mounts for
no other reason than to keep the bodies cleaner.
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I've always used them and will continue to use them.
As DSatz pointed out, I find that they are more needed on my cardioids and hyper-cardioids. When I run omni's, I use the cheaper shocks.
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I always use shock-mounts and have now converted everything to the Rycote InVision series as these are technically the best (at any price) and also happen to be cheaper than just about any anything else. ;D
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Tell these guys. :P Man that thing is spendy. :o
http://www.lasvegasproaudio.com/m600.html
For $240 it'll turn your Behringer into a Schoeps!
I said the "B" word; now I must wash my mouth out with soap 8)
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I have AT853 and CA ST-11 mics with the alligator clips. I just put a fat rubber band around my t-bar and then clip to the rubber surface.....figure that supplies some ghetto isolation :)
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The "Enhanced Audio M 600" that people have mentioned here is NOT a shock mount, and the marketing materials for it make that quite clear. If anything it is an unusually rigid mount, which I would think would couple vibrations quite efficiently from a stand or boom arm into the body of a microphone.
On the "up side" it would probably damp the primary mechanical resonance of a microphone body's shell, if that was a problem--and I suppose that with some microphones it might be, given that so many companies are now making microphones by copying other microphones as cheaply as possible, without much knowledge of microphone design.
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I think I paid 12$ each for these and I love 'em. They're exactly what I have found is needed. I bought them after a "stomper" show, these have insulated me well from stompers or anything else that might travel up the pole and these suckers are bulletproof, made of steel on the rings. They're quite compact for mounts as well.
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The best shockmounts (at any price) are definitely the Rycote InVision series.
Next is the Osix
Then the Shure donut
The rest come way down.
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The best shockmounts (at any price) are definitely the Rycote InVision series.
They certainly look the part. :o
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I just use SP20's.
Not sure how much shock absorption they have but, no issues.
Dirt cheap too. Certainly better than plastic mic clips. The SP20's go for $20.00/pair shipped on fleabay. Can't beat that with a stick, IMO.
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I think I paid 12$ each for these and I love 'em. They're exactly what I have found is needed. I bought them after a "stomper" show, these have insulated me well from stompers or anything else that might travel up the pole and these suckers are bulletproof, made of steel on the rings. They're quite compact for mounts as well.
what kind of mounts are those and do they have brass threads?
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I think I paid 12$ each for these and I love 'em. They're exactly what I have found is needed. I bought them after a "stomper" show, these have insulated me well from stompers or anything else that might travel up the pole and these suckers are bulletproof, made of steel on the rings. They're quite compact for mounts as well.
what kind of mounts are those and do they have brass threads?
Heya Darby, As I remember they didn't even come in a bag, just had wires coiled on them with a tag and a price like they were "generic." I'm looking for any identification on them at all and there's not even a "made in" on them. I got them at Guitar Center here in Chicago. I've been planning on going down there so perhaps I'll see if they can look it up in my purchase history tomorrow and I'll bring one in with me to show them. I remember the sales rep that sold them to me, if I can find out I'll get a model # or whatever unique identifier they have for them and I'll post it. They don't seem to be listed on their website, at least not under shock mounts. The threads seem like they are just metal, not brass, I can see there's a bit of oxidization on them.
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Marked! I will come back to check this soon!thanks a lot.:-)
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