Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: willndmb on April 29, 2011, 01:42:53 PM
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part 3
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=93559.0
lots of fairly recent developments in the last pages of part 3
the way things are progressing it looks like part 4 may be where things come to life and Naiant Studio has a ck6_ active solution
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Kick ass.
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Kick ass.
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Dropping in to mark the thread.
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Checking in.
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Well if anyone knows the horn diameter/measurement for the back of the collette, I can try and start to work on a design that I have been wanting to get machined that would utilize actual AKG parts as well.
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something i thought about today that i don't recall talked about is cable length
i would like to go as long as 12 feet
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something i thought about today that i don't recall talked about is cable length
i would like to go as long as 12 feet
Or longer. Up to 15' would be perfect IMO. If Jon uses Belden 1804a, its silver coated copper, and is much more flexible than Mil-Spec silver. I would also like the cabling techflexed together as an option, because I would never run split omnis/etc....
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And my 2nd rig would be ck63>TinyBox/AKG Actives Box/etc>Another Sony PCM-M10 or 722 ;)
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something i thought about today that i don't recall talked about is cable length
i would like to go as long as 12 feet
Or longer. Up to 15' would be perfect IMO
thats cool i have 15 feet now and it just seems i typically have to wrap some up on the bottom
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Kick ass.
Another person that can't wait for MShilarious to offer a AKG Active solution.
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e348/EL_Deano/NaiantAKGActivemockup-1.jpg)
:D ;D :o :) ;D :D ;D :o :) ;D :D ;D :o :) ;D :D ;D :o :) ;D :D ;D :o :) ;D :D :o
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something i thought about today that i don't recall talked about is cable length
i would like to go as long as 12 feet
Small tip:
Get a set of colettes on 4' or 5' cables and terminate the ends with whatever has the required # of pins. Then just run the rest off of various lengths to the box. That way you can stealth, run open, splits, whatever.
I've got like 4 sets of cables at different lengths for my beyers that way, and 18" cables for each set of caps so I don't have to unplug the caps and risk messing up the pins in a dark room. If something goes wrong after wear/tear, I just replace the cables that run from my bodies to the 18" individuals, or re-terminate the 18" ones. Even better would be to get a set of colettes/cable extensions for each set of caps you have so you can virtually eliminate threading issues or pin issues on the colettes.
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I could avoid those problems with a 4-wire connection, but that would exclude the nanocon. I would have to make the coupling larger to support a 4-pin mini-XLR; then I would use 1804a, but not wired as star quad.
Do you know the design particulars that allow Schoeps to offer a 10m cable with the kc5 active cables? The cables are 3 conductor, btw. Model #kc10g.
I prefer to keep my unbalanced runs as short as possible, and my kc5 cables are 6'. That means I sometimes have bodies up on the ceiling, near the caps. And then I can have long balanced runs back to the pre-amp (but I almost always run the bodies on the caps these days).
Have you looked at the Binder 711's? They look good, and support a wide range of pin counts. There seems to be a wide range of connector sizes in the series.
http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0b58/0900766b80b58292.pdf
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i personally rather have "quality" over compact size
if it meant being 10mm longer for overall better results due to the cable i think it would prob be worth it
(assuming its not already a long coupler)
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So anyone have any thoughts on what the Gefell capsule requires in the way of a buffer circuit? I've read the ck61's are similar to the Gefell caps, but I am not familiar with them.
The schoeps caps are a two pin connection, the Gefell one.
Edit: Useful patent
http://www.google.com/patents?zoom=4&id=wXEkAAAAEBAJ&jtp=1
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I won't be using 1804a for a few reasons: the nanocons are really small and I don't think it would easily fit. Also, there is no advantage to star quad for a cable run that isn't balanced because there is no common-mode rejection. It would actually be worse because the capacitance of star quad is higher than regular cable, and the connection between coupling and PFA is still relatively high-impedance--I can lower the impedance (that is actually set by the PFA/amp), but that will lower gain. At higher gain, 10ft would be the limit; lower gains could probably support up to 30ft although it's still an unbalanced connection, so interference can also start to become a problem. That is with Mogami 2697.
I could avoid those problems with a 4-wire connection, but that would exclude the nanocon. I would have to make the coupling larger to support a 4-pin mini-XLR; then I would use 1804a, but not wired as star quad.
I'm not sure it is possible to move away from the nanocons (may already be in the process of getting the collettes milled or whatever), but if it isn't too late in the design phase, I'd say it is more important to get a good circuit developed and provide better performance. It sounds from what you're saying that a 4-wire operation would yield better performance, or at least longer unbalanced cable length.
For my own use with "active" cables, I sometimes use them for low profile recording, and in these cases 10ft length is fine. I also use the active cables for regular taper section recording, and in this case 10ft is about the minimum length. That is the length of my milab actives (3m), and I often wish I had just a couple more feet available (esp if I am clamping onto someone else's stand and can't get my bag right under the stand).
Not that any of this can't be worked around, but the nanocons sound like they limit performance somewhat, and they are pretty thin -- which sounds like they might be more fragile and you've stated it probably wouldn't be good to use them to connect to a mic t-bar. All that said, the Binder 711's seem nice too. If you consider the total length of cable-end connector plus active-head connector, they aren't much difference in length than the nanocon combo, and I don't think diameter is much of an issue. A trade-off perhaps in outer connector length vs connector length inside the active head, but either way I think the total length is comparable.
The Binder connectors might also be more conducive to using in a kwon-bar (delrin rod) type set up for connecting and shockmounting the caps.
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I also use the active cables for regular taper section recording, and in this case 10ft is about the minimum length.
Fwiw, when I run actives on a stand, it is KC5's with cmc6 bodies. So it was easy to velcro my bodies to the stand pole, or even up on the ceiling. That's actually an advantage of body-actives vs. "box" actives. And if the active "driver" box is also the preamp, I want to be able to tweak the gain.
The Binder connectors might also be more conducive to using in a kwon-bar (delrin rod) type set up for connecting and shockmounting the caps.
From what I see in the data sheets, the nanocons are secured with a tiny snap clip, which Jon suggests may not be super rugged (I agree). But the binders have a collar that threads on the connector. It seems like the latter could be pretty strong.
It doesn't matter to me - I have a great solution for the "kwon bar" setup that will work fine with the nanocons, and is an improvement over the absurdly overpriced status quo.
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absurdly overpriced status quo.
i still don't understand why all these set ups are so costly
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absurdly overpriced status quo.
i still don't understand why all these set ups are so costly
What? Kwon/Nola bars??? As a matter of opinion, I hardly think they're expensive and a great solution at a reasonable price. Hopefully we're talking about the same thing.
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absurdly overpriced status quo.
i still don't understand why all these set ups are so costly
What? Kwon/Nola bars??? As a matter of opinion, I hardly think they're expensive and a great solution at a reasonable price. Hopefully we're talking about the same thing.
I machine my own. The material costs about a dollar per bar in small quantities. How much profit per bar is reasonable? I guess the answer is - whatever you can get. But $75 for a trivial chunk of plastic? Snort.
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I machine my own. The material costs about a dollar per bar in small quantities. How much profit per bar is reasonable? I guess the answer is - whatever you can get. But $75 for a trivial chunk of plastic? Snort.
What's it cost to have them machined though (and prototyped)? Very cool that you can machine your own... perhaps you could become a competitor! I certainly need a few more bars.
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There really doesn't need to be any circuit difference per se, single-diaphragm externally biased capsules are pretty much all the same.
The difficulty for me stems from the difference between the single pin + ground Gefell vs. the reference designs I am looking at - the schoeps and akg 460b - which are two pin designs, signal on the center and polarization on the outer ring. Does the Gefell send the polarization via the ground? I need to get a high impedance DVM.
However, mechanically those multi-ring connectors are a pain. They trade mechanical complexity for circuit complexity.
They are a pain, but they are durable and well made.
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For those of us not keeping tabs on the Retail section, Jon has some good news.
Next week will see some development on the AKG front: yet another PCB revision that will support 3-wire (unbalanced) or 4-wire (balanced or unbalanced) interconnection, and I'll mill the prototype couplings which can support either Binder 711 or Neutrik nanocons (which happily use the same hole size).
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145217.0
With the addtion of Binder 711 clips, is it time to check on feasibility of Delrin Nola type stereo bars?
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For those of us not keeping tabs on the Retail section, Jon has some good news.
Next week will see some development on the AKG front: yet another PCB revision that will support 3-wire (unbalanced) or 4-wire (balanced or unbalanced) interconnection, and I'll mill the prototype couplings which can support either Binder 711 or Neutrik nanocons (which happily use the same hole size).
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145217.0
With the addtion of Binder 711 clips, is it time to check on feasibility of Delrin Nola type stereo bars?
can someone please explain the benefits of one connector over the other and how 3 vs 4 wire is different in taping for idiots terms
thanks
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schweeeet!
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For those of us not keeping tabs on the Retail section, Jon has some good news.
Next week will see some development on the AKG front: yet another PCB revision that will support 3-wire (unbalanced) or 4-wire (balanced or unbalanced) interconnection, and I'll mill the prototype couplings which can support either Binder 711 or Neutrik nanocons (which happily use the same hole size).
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145217.0
With the addtion of Binder 711 clips, is it time to check on feasibility of Delrin Nola type stereo bars?
can someone please explain the benefits of one connector over the other and how 3 vs 4 wire is different in taping for idiots terms
thanks
If I have followed along correctly...The Nanocons have a small push button to clip in and out (some what like a XLR) but may not be as secure when using as a mount point. Binder 711's appear to be threaded and screw the connector and the Collette together should be sturdier and Hopefully used as a connection to Delrin stereo bars.
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If I have followed along correctly...The Nanocons have a small push button to clip in and out (some what like a XLR) but may not be as secure when using as a mount point. Binder 711's appear to be threaded and screw the connector and the Collette together should be sturdier and Hopefully used as a connection to Delrin stereo bars.
... and the Binders look a little less long too. But, it's hard to tell without a photo of them side by side.
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Dropping in to mark the thread.
I machine my own. The material costs about a dollar per bar in small quantities.
are you in the business to make more? And what caps do you have that you are your making your own bar for? Or do they work for multiple caps?
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thanks hypno and jon
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It doesn't matter to me - I have a great solution for the "kwon bar" setup that will work fine with the nanocons, and is an improvement over the absurdly overpriced status quo.
If you have a picture of your Delrin bar setup that works with the nanocons, I'd like to see it.
I have Delrin bars that are threaded for 3/8" at one end and can be screwed together so that all that is needed is a mic clip on each end. But then the angle is variable and one of the nice things about the Kwon bars is that once the capsules are in the bars, the pattern is locked in. Plus they are idiot proof and practically indestructible.
I'm sure there is a good profit margin since as you say the Delrin bars are really cheap. A long time ago, I tried making one with a handsaw/jig saw and a drill, but the results were pretty comical. Most people don't have the tools to make the necessary cuts at the exact angle needed or bore out a space of the exact diameter and at the correct angle to hold the collar. And that's after figuring out the correct geometry for the various capsules and intended patterns. If someone makes a cheaper bar that is precise as those made by Robert Kwon, I'd happily buy it, but so far only one person has done that. And the alternatives are cheaper than the OEM Schoeps options.
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One lead is for the polarization voltage, so 3-wire is like 2-wire PIP, and 4-wire is like 3-wire, which can be balanced is generally lower impedance. So if you're running more than 10 feet of cable, you probably want 4-wire.
Even if you are running less than 10ft of cable, is the sonic quality affected/degraded by running them 3-wire?
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Probably not too many people are interested in this, but I took a picture anyway ;)
(http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=145217.0;attach=103273;image)
The metalwork falls under the "barely functional" category, but it's enough for me to test the circuit. I will have to cut a new coupling once I acquire an 11/16" twist bit . . . which aren't that easy to find locally, it seems . . . fortunately I am *not* doing the production metalwork!
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145217.150
:woot
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Probably not too many people are interested in this, but I took a picture anyway ;)
(http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=145217.0;attach=103273;image)
The metalwork falls under the "barely functional" category, but it's enough for me to test the circuit. I will have to cut a new coupling once I acquire an 11/16" twist bit . . . which aren't that easy to find locally, it seems . . . fortunately I am *not* doing the production metalwork!
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145217.150
:woot
AWESOME JON :)
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it's so pretty
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Nice! I must say...running the mk4 last week while on ph tour made me reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally want some actives. I check in on this thread often for progress updates since i'm also a member of team AKG. Hoping an active system for the 480/ck6x is made available soon. ;D
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Nice! I must say...running the mk4 last week while on ph tour made me reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally want some actives. I check in on this thread often for progress updates since i'm also a member of team AKG. Hoping an active system for the 480/ck6x is made available soon. ;D
I LOVE running actives Bryan. JUST DOOOOOOOOOOOOO EEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTTTT!
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Nice! I must say...running the mk4 last week while on ph tour made me reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally want some actives. I check in on this thread often for progress updates since i'm also a member of team AKG. Hoping an active system for the 480/ck6x is made available soon. ;D
I LOVE running actives Bryan. JUST DOOOOOOOOOOOOO EEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTTTT!
once a akg active system is on the market, i'm checking my finances. Have some home improvement projects to handle first, though...
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once a akg active system is on the market, i'm checking my finances. Have some home improvement projects to handle first, though...
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Are we going to see the AKG actives by the end of the summer??
Probably not too many people are interested in this, but I took a picture anyway ;)
(http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=145217.0;attach=103273;image)
The metalwork falls under the "barely functional" category, but it's enough for me to test the circuit. I will have to cut a new coupling once I acquire an 11/16" twist bit . . . which aren't that easy to find locally, it seems . . . fortunately I am *not* doing the production metalwork!
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145217.150
:woot
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Seems like I heard something about 4 sets being passed out for testing by section members...don't know if it has happened yet or not...
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just checking back in since I've been crazy busy the last couple months.
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Seems like I heard something about 4 sets being passed out for testing by section members...don't know if it has happened yet or not...
hasn't happened
a lot of schoeps stuff has been getting done though such as a lb with binder connector
check out the tinybox 1.5 thread in retail for more on that
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Keeping the thread alive...
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We need a head count on who wants a set of Actives...
IIRC the only hold up is machining a housing...All other parts are available?
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1 - Chuck
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2-Hypno
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Do we have an approximate cost?
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3 - hoccusfoccus
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4
depends on cost ultimately though
and i think if people actually knew it was an option you would see more interest because i have heard people say things like, its not going to happen so ho cares
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I'm in. It will happen. I'm lovin my CK1x>tinybox setup. Really looking forward to being able to run ck63 caps though.
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and i think if people actually knew it was an option you would see more interest because i have heard people say things like, its not going to happen so ho cares
There is also the group who doesn't want to commit until they have been field tested.
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6 - a qualified "I'd like to check it out". Other issues noted by others before me - cost, performance, availability, quality, etc.
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and i think if people actually knew it was an option you would see more interest because i have heard people say things like, its not going to happen so ho cares
There is also the group who doesn't want to commit until they have been field tested.
very true
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IMO...a Ball park Price would be a PFA plus the cost of machining the colettes...$79 Plus colette??? Your setup may impact that...if you are running a Tiny Box with Polarization voltage...then it is only a board and colette...
I feel 6 pairs would be a good field test...
What do we think about approaching Jon for specs on the colettes and have 7 sets made (one for Jon as good will) start making recordings and build some interest?
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7- John I'd love to activate my AKG's !!!!
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I'd like a pair of these, just the collettes, I can find my own "polarization voltage".
I'm wondering what happened to these. I say build ten or so, sell them off, and repeat until we're done.
Richard
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There are already at least one other person who has succeeded in creating an active solution other than Jon of JKLabs. His comment to me was that everyone wants them but no one is willing to absorb the initial cost. Can't I say I blame Jon (Naiant) for deferring this project. Heck the AKG community can't even come to a consensus as to what they actually want other than a generic 'i want actives' answer.
Of the 7 previous posters who have said they're in, how many of you would send Jon money now sight unseen to help him finance the work?
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There are already at least one other person who has succeeded in creating an active solution other than Jon of JKLabs. His comment to me was that everyone wants them but no one is willing to absorb the initial cost. Can't I say I blame Jon (Naiant) for deferring this project. Heck the AKG community can't even come to a consensus as to what they actually want other than a generic 'i want actives' answer.
Of the 7 previous posters who have said they're in, how many of you would send Jon money now sight unseen to help him finance the work?
yep... you guys need to stop talking and step up to the plate. ;)
Jon is amazing and I have no doubt this solution will work. In fact, it will work so damn well your 460/80s will start gathering dust.
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There are already at least one other person who has succeeded in creating an active solution other than Jon of JKLabs. His comment to me was that everyone wants them but no one is willing to absorb the initial cost. Can't I say I blame Jon (Naiant) for deferring this project. Heck the AKG community can't even come to a consensus as to what they actually want other than a generic 'i want actives' answer.
Of the 7 previous posters who have said they're in, how many of you would send Jon money now sight unseen to help him finance the work?
i already have said i would be willing to send money in advance if i had a ballpark amount thats was worth it, we knew it was going to go somewhere, and do i get a cut of the profits after?
i am not investing money for something that will end up not being cost effective or not going to come to life at all and so someone else can sit back and collect all the money after the fact - imo those are simple business practices
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How much do you think the initial advance might be?
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There are already at least one other person who has succeeded in creating an active solution other than Jon of JKLabs. His comment to me was that everyone wants them but no one is willing to absorb the initial cost. Can't I say I blame Jon (Naiant) for deferring this project. Heck the AKG community can't even come to a consensus as to what they actually want other than a generic 'i want actives' answer.
Of the 7 previous posters who have said they're in, how many of you would send Jon money now sight unseen to help him finance the work?
i already have said i would be willing to send money in advance if i had a ballpark amount thats was worth it, we knew it was going to go somewhere, and do i get a cut of the profits after?
i am not investing money for something that will end up not being cost effective or not going to come to life at all and so someone else can sit back and collect all the money after the fact - imo those are simple business practices
I don't mean to be condescending in the slightest, but every single word that came after "I already said I would be willing to send money..." completely invalidated everything. Perhaps I can help to convince why it would be worth making the investment.
First, the price is going to be the cost of a Tinybox plus $600, to be extra conservative, for the active cables; I'm using that figure because it's roughly the cost of nbox cables which are well worth that price. Are you will to pay $800 for something that Jon has a known to be working prototype for? I don't personally think the cost of the active cables will anything near $600. Jon could charge a lot more than he does for his preamps; they are incredibly feature rich, yet his prices are very reasonable. I have no idea what the cost of his active cable solution will ultimately be, but I would put down $800 in a heartbeat for a good AKG active solution (assuming I already had caps). To me, that is an incredibly cost effective solution, not even considering the strong desire expressed of 4 threads of posts on this board.
Second, you are seeking a sophisticated, custom solution that is not otherwise available. You may have to pay a premium and you may also have to be a bit of a guinea pig; worrying about business practices in this situation is a luxury, if not entirely a pipe dream.
Finally, I can personally attest to the quality of Jon's work and have complete confidence the solution will come to life. As mentioned earlier, there is already a known working prototype and this is not a high risk investment. Jon will not take your order unless he is confident he can deliver to you a product of the highest quality, so with all this said... it's really time to step up to the plate! :)
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I don't see how developing a prototype AKG/collette is any different than any other protype, like the Tinybox. Or like Busman's actives. You have an upfront cost, but you expect to sell a certain number of units. If the problem really is the upfront cost, do what Chris Church does and get payment for a certain # of units in advance.
As for more complicated deals, such as sharing of equity/future sales, that is just too complicated, and not really fair fo Jon I would think. As long as one person has the technical ability, and the finances, there is no need to share the profit.
I think the first step is for Jon to come forward and tell us the approximate cost (with and without a suitable box to connect it to), and a minimum initial # of pre sales, if required, to make it happen.
Until that happens, this can be considered "vaporware", or better yet "maybe-ware". We all know it is technically possible, but it is just not happening yet. I really hope it happens, and I honestly thought Jon was moving forward with it, but now I have my doubts.
Of course this is no reflection on Jon or his other business. He ultimately has the choice of how to proceed.
Richard
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What is required for Jon's AKG Active? If you have what is required to run a microphone with Phantom Power...these are the items I know that are required for a PFA type solution that is previewed a few pages back:
Naiant PFA (If I read it correctly the price is $79 for Stereo Multi pin Mini XLR to 2 XLR mono PFA's)
Cable
Binder connections
Colette
Jon's stuffed board that fits inside Colette
Assembly
Personally I don't see the cost anywhere near $800, $600 or $500...that looks more in the $200 range to me...but that is just a guess...if you desire a TBox that would up the cost as you are now paying for a Preamp in addition to the active cable-Colette.
Initially Jon has said he had no desire to do the metal work and has personally told me that he would supply stuffed boards for the Colette...the door is wide open for someone with skills on a soldering iron and the Items above....
So...see how far we have to go...it is very close to happening....I had hoped for good will among the AKG TS members to come together and machine an initial batch of Colette's to birth this baby....and help out someone whom has been a resource of knowledge and cool equipment for our hobby
OK...back to the question below...What do we think about approaching Jon for specs on the colettes and have 8 sets made (one for Jon as good will) start making recordings and build some interest?
We can firm up costs on Jon's side and put out a request for quotes on machining the first 16 Colette's....everything will be above board and ACTUAL cost (no profiting on our machining of Colette's allowed) will be shown to each of us...I think you may come out with a lower cash outlay than those who follow us to AKG ACTIVE HEAVEN...
Of the 7 members whom have shown interest would you pay up front for 1/2 of the Colette machining cost...NOT THE FINAL BUILD COST...once they are machined pay the other half an we ship them to Jon to be built...you deal with Jon on the final build to your specs and pay him the balance...that is If Jon would do this for us I guess...
Who is a lawyer and can draw up the papers.... ;D
I'm totally open to suggestions and corrections on this theory too...
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Pending a cost estimate, I would be wiling to pick up some CK-61s and invest in making the collettes happen.
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I would have no problem sending Jon $ for a product sight unseen. Naiant products have proven themselves as a great product at a great value. All Jon would have to do is ask and a check would be in the mail.
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I'll pay up front. Let's make this happen.
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just to be clear
i support jon and/or anyone else in this effort and i an fully aware of the quality of his products
my earlier statements i am not knocking jon or anyone else
but i stand by what i said and still think they are simple business practices, and no i am not saying anyone should share profits, just that when you invest in something you typically get something in the end above someone who jumps in after the fact
moving on, what is there to getting collettes made? my uncle machines stuff all the time and might be willing to help out
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Initially Jon has said he had no desire to do the metal work and has personally told me that he would supply stuffed boards for the Colette...the door is wide open for someone with skills on a soldering iron and the Items above....
I've been waiting on stuffed boards for the Gefell actives since late june, when it seemed they were done.
And I think your cost estimates are wildly unrealistic. Development work, integration and testing all take significant time. Time is money. Plus there is the investment in inventory, and in components that may not ultimately work out and their cost must be absorbed. It is so much easier to copy someone else's hard work. The simplest designs are often the result of the most thought and time.
It's so easy to wave your hands and talk about this stuff. Talk is cheap.
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I've been waiting on stuffed boards for the Gefell actives since late june, when it seemed they were done.
......
It's so easy to wave your hands and talk about this stuff. Talk is cheap.
FOR THE RECORD I DO NOT DESIRE TO STEP ON ANYONE'S DREAM OR LIVELYHOOD...
Eleven...wasn't aware there was a hold up on the stuffed boards...that is bad news...and I did qualify what I thought the cost to be was a guess...I'll look for what Jon has said on cost estimates...Somewhere I recall him speaking about it...
'willndmb...show your uncle a AKG Body and a mockup pictures of a Active...ask if supplied the tap for the threads what would something like this cost for 20...
(http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=145217.0;attach=103273;image)
(http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=93559.0;attach=102730;image)
I think there may be a slot cut out on the inside to hold the board in place also to consider as a milling operation
Finish can be black using Gun Blue...if they are made out of Brass...I would be happy to help with that part...
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...and no i am not saying anyone should share profits, just that when you invest in something you typically get something in the end above someone who jumps in after the fact
Correct... what you're getting is an AKG active setup without having to be on Jon's timeline. I don't think this is going to that profitable of an endeavor for him and I'm sure it's time consuming, so he has all his other projected prioritized above AKG actives for good reason.
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Bottom line is, I think people just want to know what's up.
There was an initial date and then a secondary date and further talk of prototypes
in Jons other threads by Jon.
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I would probably throw down on a pair of ck62's for the active setup. That way I could save MUCHO DINERO compared to buying Schoeps MK2S's :)
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...and no i am not saying anyone should share profits, just that when you invest in something you typically get something in the end above someone who jumps in after the fact
Correct... what you're getting is an AKG active setup without having to be on Jon's timeline. I don't think this is going to that profitable of an endeavor for him and I'm sure it's time consuming, so he has all his other projected prioritized above AKG actives for good reason.
I agree to some extent. I've asked for odd stuff from vendors before and been willing to either front parts, cash, time or any combination. Yes, it costs me more then it does anyone else later, but 1) I get said object I'm after and often times 2) I get it first. Beta testing stuff after you've paid for it isn't particularly fun, but thats the trade off. If you want it bad enough, you pay to play.
Has anyone actually asked Jon what sort of cash and time it would take to bump it up in the priority structure?
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...and no i am not saying anyone should share profits, just that when you invest in something you typically get something in the end above someone who jumps in after the fact
Correct... what you're getting is an AKG active setup without having to be on Jon's timeline. I don't think this is going to that profitable of an endeavor for him and I'm sure it's time consuming, so he has all his other projected prioritized above AKG actives for good reason.
I agree to some extent. I've asked for odd stuff from vendors before and been willing to either front parts, cash, time or any combination. Yes, it costs me more then it does anyone else later, but 1) I get said object I'm after and often times 2) I get it first. Beta testing stuff after you've paid for it isn't particularly fun, but thats the trade off. If you want it bad enough, you pay to play.
Has anyone actually asked Jon what sort of cash and time it would take to bump it up in the priority structure?
which is exactly my point - thats backwords in a typical business set up
why would i pay more for something that might not work and be the test rat, then after it is all said and done others get a working product for less
normally you would pay less because there is no guarantee it will work, in exchange for your time/money investment
i have asked in threads a few times about a ballpark cost but never direct via email/pm
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Not trying to compete as I'm not doing a ck91 mod, but my ck6x coupling will probably be $99 including the (mono) PFA. I am not doing the metalwork though, I will hire that out, which will run in the $10-$15 range per unit, depending on volume. I also hire out powdercoating, which costs me about $0.50/unit.
Keep in mind that this is from last April but it does give an idea of the expected cost.
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Not trying to compete as I'm not doing a ck91 mod, but my ck6x coupling will probably be $99 including the (mono) PFA. I am not doing the metalwork though, I will hire that out, which will run in the $10-$15 range per unit, depending on volume. I also hire out powdercoating, which costs me about $0.50/unit.
Keep in mind that this is from last April but it does give an idea of the expected cost.
so you are talking less then 250 ballpark
i would put that money up front for a working device plus more then likely buy a tb/lb to go with it
no sense in having 2 set of mics to run and only one pre/recorder to ;D
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If it's in the $250 ballpark, I have a check ready to send Jon right now.
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Hell I would pay up front for the cables if they would be compatable with my two tinyboxes
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...and no i am not saying anyone should share profits, just that when you invest in something you typically get something in the end above someone who jumps in after the fact
Correct... what you're getting is an AKG active setup without having to be on Jon's timeline. I don't think this is going to that profitable of an endeavor for him and I'm sure it's time consuming, so he has all his other projected prioritized above AKG actives for good reason.
I agree to some extent. I've asked for odd stuff from vendors before and been willing to either front parts, cash, time or any combination. Yes, it costs me more then it does anyone else later, but 1) I get said object I'm after and often times 2) I get it first. Beta testing stuff after you've paid for it isn't particularly fun, but thats the trade off. If you want it bad enough, you pay to play.
Has anyone actually asked Jon what sort of cash and time it would take to bump it up in the priority structure?
which is exactly my point - thats backwords in a typical business set up
why would i pay more for something that might not work and be the test rat, then after it is all said and done others get a working product for less
normally you would pay less because there is no guarantee it will work, in exchange for your time/money investment
I agree from the customer standpoint, but I think it makes sense from the business standpoint. If it's going to take me 2X the effort to learn what's needed, get everything ready, and do a lot of up front R/D type stuff, then I have a much bigger hurtle/incentive to overcome then just sending out another order. When I pay that premium, I try and even out the reward to match that effort output. Yes, it's not optimum from my standpoint as a consumer, but there have been a couple of items that I don't think said object would have materialized any time soon (if at all) had I not paid a premium. just food for thought.
Really, I'd like for you folks to get this because A) this has only been the slowest project I've ever seen on TS and I'd like to see it succeed after all this time. and B) It's a cousin of the Gefell setup which is what I'm after. Getting half-way there bodes well for what I'm interested in.
I still think someone should contact Jon and see what it would take to get the priority structure moved around, he may say payment up front, he may say a price increase overall, he may say nothing (that he decides his own priority structure), but at least you would know then.
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page....Jon has been contacted and we wait for a reply on status...I can only hope it is just a backlog of work and not a Technical issue...
Looking back for information on cost I've not yet found it...but did find this in the Product storm thread (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145217.255)
...I didn't have quite that much interest, maybe more like 20 units of AKG...
:-[
then IGTEleven asked about the Capsule FET boards for Gefells...
Yes, those will be available shortly, I am wiring up a batch of high-volt PFAs with 4-pin Binder connectors, these will also be available to the Gefell folks. It's all much easier if I don't have to do the metalwork.
Jon blesses us to make a Colette...
Anybody that wants to mill a coupling, go nuts . . . it has to fit a Binder plug at one end and an 11/16" PCB at the other, held in place by a retaining ring. After I finish cutting the eight blanks I have, I'll ship the tap to anybody that wants it.
Question the retaining ring is it between the FET board and Binder or Capsule and FET board?
But what is the thickness of the pcb, with the grounding tabs? Those dimensions are critical to design the stack height and tolerances.
1.6mm, but it's actually not critical due to the use of the leaf spring. Off the top of my head, I tap to 9mm, the capsule threads are 4mm, the PCB is 1.6mm which leaves 3.4mm for the leaf spring. Then the Binder needs 12mm or so, plus 2mm for panel, for 23mm total. I think in the prototypes I left a few extra mm between the connector and PCB.
The diameter of the hole in the back of the capsule....I seem to recall a 711 Binder is being used? Male? This chassis mount in the Capsule?
(http://www.binder-usa.com/image.php?uid=307)
http://www.binder-usa.com/psearch_detail.php?pid=5236
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page....Jon has been contacted and we wait for a reply on status...I can only hope it is just a backlog of work and not a Technical issue...
So, I've contacted Jon...
Jon has told me he’s still working on some prototypes. He has to machine the capsule side collets by hand and that is going to take some time. If those prototypes work and he can affirm that the electronics work properly the next step will be to make more of the collets that mate with the capsules. He told me he will need someone else to do the metalwork.
So, I think our next move should be to find someone that can do the metalwork. If the hand machined collets he is making work, we should be able to use those as prototypes for fabrication by a machinist. If the electronics work, we can order the electronic assemblies from him to insert into the collets.
Does anyone know a good relatively inexpensive machinist that can do the metal work for us?
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Couldn't collettes be machined like Chris K AKG DVC box in this thread. I thought I saw a post from him that he had his redone since he owned this box. Maybe contact his machinist.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=136697.0
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Jon doesn't have anyone he could ise for metal work? I know he said he didn't want
to do the metalwork but he must have a connection.
Chuck, did you ask him?
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Chuck
Thank you for contacting Jon...good to hear it is just business an not a technical issue.
I'm in the process of trying to nail down a drawing with a Online Cad program (read Learn how to draw)....above figures from the Product Storm is the basis for my drawing but I have some questions. Wanted to be sure about the binder model and where this retaining ring is placed I assume it needs a slot machined out to hold?
Willndmb will approach his uncle...I'm going down the online route...If I can get this drawing nailed down I plan on contacting some local shops or ask around for a backyard Machinist with a Greenlee Lathe in his/her basement...
Twenty Colettes will be made come hell or high water...too close to not follow through now...
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e348/EL_Deano/firstColette.jpg)
Hope to gawd there is a problem with the cost module...
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e348/EL_Deano/ColetteCost.jpg)
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Ask jon if he has anyone first.
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Ask jon if he has anyone first.
Jon doesn't have anyone to do the machining. It's up to us to do it.
His words, "I would need somebody else to take on the production metalwork, but I still need to finish a few rough prototypes to make sure the electronics are where I want them to be."
He said once his prototypes are made and tested we'd have to find someone to do the production metalwork.
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Thanks Chuck!
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I have a 16" SouthBend lathe at work. It's probably from the 50's but it gets the job done. First challenge I see is our full time machinist has retired, however we do have a younger apprentice who is willing to give this a shot. Since this machine is pretty much an antique and is used on a daily basis for production work we could only do small amounts of these collettes. His suggestion is to do the first run out of aluminum to get it right and then move to brass stock, if necessary.
He has a few questions. Do they have to be brass? Are the threads for the cap end metric? What goes on the other end? Does anything special need to be done to the interior? Anyone have any drawings?
Like I said we can only do so many. He would have to do these on his time. I don't know how much he would charge for his time. I would probably have to buy the stock and metric die set if needed.
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TS...that is an awesome offer...
If I'm correct that there is a 711Chassis Binder plug...There is a 9.2mm Hole on the back end and a 11/16 hole that is threaded on the Capsule end...I know there is a retaining clip holding the FET board...not sure if there is need to mill something special for it...
I'll volunteer to create a drawing and run it past Jon for a preliminary approval...Jon also has purchased a Tap that matches the AKG Capsule threads and has offered to pass that along after he was done with creation of a Aluminum Prototype Run.
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TS...that is an awesome offer...
If I'm correct that there is a 711Chassis Binder plug...There is a 9.2mm Hole on the back end and a 11/16 hole that is threaded on the Capsule end...I know there is a retaining clip holding the FET board...not sure if there is need to mill something special for it...
I'll volunteer to create a drawing and run it past Jon for a preliminary approval...Jon also has purchased a Tap that matches the AKG Capsule threads and has offered to pass that along after he was done with creation of a Aluminum Prototype Run.
:coolguy:
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TS...that is an awesome offer...
If I'm correct that there is a 711Chassis Binder plug...There is a 9.2mm Hole on the back end and a 11/16 hole that is threaded on the Capsule end...I know there is a retaining clip holding the FET board...not sure if there is need to mill something special for it...
I'll volunteer to create a drawing and run it past Jon for a preliminary approval...Jon also has purchased a Tap that matches the AKG Capsule threads and has offered to pass that along after he was done with creation of a Aluminum Prototype Run.
:coolguy:
i'm glad someone understands all that :)
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TS...that is an awesome offer...
If I'm correct that there is a 711Chassis Binder plug...There is a 9.2mm Hole on the back end and a 11/16 hole that is threaded on the Capsule end...I know there is a retaining clip holding the FET board...not sure if there is need to mill something special for it...
I'll volunteer to create a drawing and run it past Jon for a preliminary approval...Jon also has purchased a Tap that matches the AKG Capsule threads and has offered to pass that along after he was done with creation of a Aluminum Prototype Run.
See what info Jon can provide. Just to be clear. We could never do tons of these or make it an ongoing production. Our lathe is not computer operated. One pair could take a few hours and if he can only do them on Saturdays, this could be a long process. A machine shop with modern equipment is definitely a better solution. That said, I'd like to give this kid a crack and see what happens.
update: I see jon already has prototypes? So we don't need my guy unless he can produce something better? I need the prototypes from Jon with specs and I'll show them to my guy and an outside machinist and we'll see what happens.
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TS...that is an awesome offer...
If I'm correct that there is a 711Chassis Binder plug...There is a 9.2mm Hole on the back end and a 11/16 hole that is threaded on the Capsule end...I know there is a retaining clip holding the FET board...not sure if there is need to mill something special for it...
I'll volunteer to create a drawing and run it past Jon for a preliminary approval...Jon also has purchased a Tap that matches the AKG Capsule threads and has offered to pass that along after he was done with creation of a Aluminum Prototype Run.
See what info Jon can provide. Just to be clear. We could never do tons of these or make it an ongoing production. Our lathe is not computer operated. One pair could take a few hours and if he can only do them on Saturdays, this could be a long process. A machine shop with modern equipment is definitely a better solution. That said, I'd like to give this kid a crack and see what happens.[/b[
if nothing else it seems like he would get something out of it experience/knowledge wise
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^ Yes. Basically he looked at the JKlabs brass colletes and said he could do it. He has no idea how long it would take until he tries. We have lots of aluminum stock around that he could test his skills on. He just needs numbers. ID, OD, thread size, length, etc. The taper may or may not be similar to JK's. Certain aspects will depend on his skill level.
I could also outsource this. Especially if larger amounts are needed. Like I said my guy could only handle very small runs. Still I need drawings either way.
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Awesome!
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You'd be surprised what can be done on a manual lathe once a good workflow is developed.
But an auto-chucking cnc lathe is the way to bang these out.
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if TS's boy could at least put out one perfect set + 1 and write down all that was done, dont think it would be a prob to take that one extra plus the " blue print " that was used and find a shop to make 2 dozen sets. everyone has a phone book, just call and check your local shop. i know i have a small local shop that does alittle of everything. they used to machine SS punches for my buddies super old punch press and would only get 2 at a time. once they get all of the measurements its easy, its the first one that takes all the time. keep at it. ed
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I've started to gather some info from some of my old machinist buddies.
They say the more info we have and the better prepared we are with drawings the easier it'll be to find someone to do the machining. It can get costly if we have any false starts with bad drawings or designs...
I think it would be useful to start writing out some of the goals we want to achieve... so here goes...
To me it would be better to have these made of brass. Brass doesn't cross thread as easily as aluminum and it's the material most high quality microphone bodies and capsules are made of. But, it's heavy. So, we'll have to remove a lot of it to make room for the circuit and cut down on the weight. I think small and light should be design goals.
Are we wanting these pieces to be hard wired or have a connector on them? I bet hard wired would be easier and cheaper... but I know many of you want them with removable cables. I'd take hard wired if it adds too much complexity and cost to design them to have connectors on them.
It would be great if we can design them to fit already existing mounting bars, like what Louie used to make. Is anyone still making Delrin stereo bars? If not, that's another thing that we may want to have a machine shop make.
Final cost... what's everyone going to be willing to pay for these things? The first few that are made are going to be pricey and may not even work properly unless we have really good designs and drawings...
I'm sure I'm missing some things... just trying to get the ball rolling with ideas. Please add your thoughts and concerns....
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Robert Kwon still sells bars.
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i agree brass is better
i agree the smaller and lighter then better, but it is still going to be smaller and lighter then a body so i am not picky about that (i don't stealth much or at all)
i agree it would be good to fit some sort of mount
hard wired would prob be my pref, but as long as it was attached to a mount good i wouldn't worry if it had a connector (i just don't want to see the cap fall at a show, let alone fall and i can't find it)
cost wise, the solution isn't worth a ton to me because i don't need it for anything other then overall faster/smaller setup/clamping (as i said before, i'm willing to pay up front for something we know works but i'm not paying only to find out we are where we are at now - no where)
all that said i think we need jon (or whoever) to tell us the sizes needed for the guts and whatnot, no sense in wasting time/money until the important stuff is done
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(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e348/EL_Deano/ColetteSidedetail.jpg)
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e348/EL_Deano/firstColetteISOmetric.jpg)
That was fun...
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where did you get the measurements from?
is it 11/16 on the outside of the threads, so the actual threads are less then that?
the outside would be better straight imo
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WARNING ABOVE IS THE FIRST DRAWING...I know there will be many adjustments along the way...
Measurements came from the Product Storm Thread and are linked a couple of pages back...
Straight sides would be easier...I just followed Jon's prototype...but I believe it was narrower at the back to fit standard 22mm Microphone clips
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Try these:
http://www.naiant.com/images/AKG_active.ems
http://www.naiant.com/images/AKG_active_narrow.ems
The threads are 3/4"-32, which eMachine Shop software does not support, you will have to contact them and ask. Ideally the OD is 21mm to match the capsules, but they might want thicker walls for the tap.
anyway some one can post those in jpeg
thanks
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Download eMachineShop. It's a 3-D image
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if the part in pic #74 will work, and has been ok'ed by Jon, u boys should be ready to rock. get that part to the right person, and then to the right machine shop. deff a small shop out there in need of some work. good luck, ed
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If this does come to fruition, I would DEF get back on Team AKG :) In addition to Team Schoeps, of course :P ;D 8)
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Thank you for the drawing's Jon
I've been learning eMachineShop...Just downloaded the drawings...I'll put up a Jpeg with dimensions later today for everyone...as a visual plan for manual lathe folks...
At work I maybe able to export Jon's drawings from that application to other types of CAD files...DFX ect....I'll check
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Ok. Hypno your numbers in post #106 look good but do they relate to the images from Jon? Maybe I can have my guy at least make up one to mate to a cap and go from there?
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chuck emachine isn't for mac
thanks jon
now is it just me or does the prototype not look like the drawing?
the prototype looks straight on the outside
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I don't have a lathe, so the prototype is only drilled. The drawings in #106 are not accurate, you need to start with what I posted.
According to my young apprentice, the two ems images contain all the info he needs. Does the bottom portion of the colette need threads?
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If this does come to fruition, I would DEF get back on Team AKG :) In addition to Team Schoeps, of course :P ;D 8)
;D
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I don't have a lathe, so the prototype is only drilled. The drawings in #106 are not accurate, you need to start with what I posted.
According to my young apprentice, the two ems images contain all the info he needs. Does the bottom portion of the colette need threads?
No, just the top, the Binder is retained with an external nut. If he wants to bang out a couple of those to send me I can send him the tap.
Thanks Jon. Looks like we have everything we need here. I think the plan should be to make a pair in aluminum first and send them to you for stuffing. If they work I can outsource for brass and see what price comes back for 40 - 50 pieces. My inside guy can do it, but I can't see him doing 40+ pieces on a manual lathe. Maybe he'll bite.
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I bet Jon's going to need one or two machined units to make sure the electronics fit and work properly.
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Wow. Cool! :)
That price is very good. But it seems very low.
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Great work guys! Love to see the momentum gaining on this project again!
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Two units in aluminum will do . . . they will go to Chuck for evaluation once stuffed.
There are two versions I posted though, you'll need to decide which you like better. For the test units, the regular version (not narrow) requires less machine work.
The indicated price on eMachine Shop for 50 units in brass is about $6 per unit, although I don't trust that program or its pricing tool . . .
Yes, the regular version looks like the one to go with. The bottom of the tapered one looked like it might get thin were the angles get cut??? If things go smoothly we may just try both versions for the prototype stage.
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does this emachine shop actually allow you to place orders through them?
if not i don't see how it could give you a price but you can't beat that price either
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Once this all comes together, I can get a good deal on a batches of mounts. But would have to all be preordered in order ylto keep cost down.
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Excellent! Thanks Louie!
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Starting to feel a little tingly inside.
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Starting to feel a little tingly inside.
Yeah, I've gone through that a few times over the years. lol... I'm hoping this time it's the real thing. ;D
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Two units in aluminum will do . . . they will go to Chuck for evaluation once stuffed
:jawdrop:
Händel Messiah - Hallelujah Chorus just popped into my head.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usfiAsWR4qU)
:spin: :realhappy: :realhappy: :realhappy: :realhappy: :spin:
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ok i talked to a buddy of mine about the colette and he is going to show the pictures to his brother who will know about making them himself or who can make them
he doesn't seem to think they would cost a lot overall based on the pictures in the thread
so hopefully in a day or so i'll hear from him and we will have another poss source
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Those of us with manual lathes...here is a jpeg with dimensions...
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e348/EL_Deano/JonsColette.jpg)
Definitely could make the sides straight at 21mm for my use...
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ok i talked to a buddy of mine about the colette and he is going to show the pictures to his brother who will know about making them himself or who can make them
he doesn't seem to think they would cost a lot overall based on the pictures in the thread
so hopefully in a day or so i'll hear from him and we will have another poss source
This all sounds great, but we need to make sure Jon's parts fit in. Buy two or something, ship them to Jon to get "installed", then have him return them to you.
I'm waiting on the sidelines here, willing to pay upfront for a pair of collettes with parts in them. I'll build my own supply.
Richard
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ok i talked to a buddy of mine about the colette and he is going to show the pictures to his brother who will know about making them himself or who can make them
he doesn't seem to think they would cost a lot overall based on the pictures in the thread
so hopefully in a day or so i'll hear from him and we will have another poss source
This all sounds great, but we need to make sure Jon's parts fit in. Buy two or something, ship them to Jon to get "installed", then have him return them to you.
I'm waiting on the sidelines here, willing to pay upfront for a pair of collettes with parts in them. I'll build my own supply.
Richard
yes, you are right
i sent him jons ems files too so they can see them
basically the first set was just seeing if they can make them or would point me to the people who can and a ballpark cost
then if it sounds good i can get a couple made and/or have exact measurements to go from
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That back chamfer doesn't look good at all, I don't think it was that was originally. Anyway, not an issue with straight sides.
I should begin cutting the straight colette this weekend, monday at the latest. As soon as I can get two cut I will ship to you for stuffing. They will be aluminum. Once fitting and testing are done I will proceed with making them out of brass in house if only small quantities are needed on the manual lathe or farm it out if larger quantities are needed. Hopefully that price of 6 ea. from emachineshop is real. Keep fingers crossed.
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So, this is essentially what we are looking at for the first batch?
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This is great! I just got caught up on this thread, and I am very interested.
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which one is correct ???
top or bottom?
i have a buddy checking it out
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Use Jons drawing or the Jpeg on this page...the first one I did was by deciphering various posts on the subject...I missed out on the change to 15mm that is a shelf for the FET board...I would also modify the plan to straight sides...
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Use Jons drawing or the Jpeg on this page...the first one I did was by deciphering various posts on the subject...I missed out on the change to 15mm that is a shelf for the FET board...I would also modify the plan to straight sides...
thansk i gave him the new version (jons)
along with straight sides at 21mm and 3/4-32 threads in brass
he is going to check it out and hopfully lmk something tues night when i see him
if all goes well i might get 2 done
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Will the AKG box accept Gefell caps? If it helps at all, I have a JK Labs box for Gefells that accepts a single capsule, but feeds two XLR's out. I would let Jon take it for prototype engineering if he'd like.
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myco not sure about what box you speak of....
The simplest answer is Gefells would need to be compatible with the Naiant Polarization voltage and a microphone housing to mate with the Gefell Capsule threads that holds a FET board...
Jon has Polarization voltage of 50v (IIRC) coming from at least two sources, a Naiant Pre or a PFA....in addtion to that there is a FET board in a microphone housing that contacts the capsule center contact with a leaf spring...at least for the AKG setup
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OK, my machine shop guy is almost ready to roll. Just need to clarify some numbers. Pretty much all the drawings show an inside diameter at the cap end of 11/16ths. The cap size is 3/4 - 32. The tap size is 3/4 - 32. According to him he needs a bore hole of 23/32, not 11/16, for the 3/4 - 32 tap to get it done properly. Can someone verify this.
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Thanks Jon.
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i spoke with my guy tonight, he was going over to the machinist house tonight and i told him that 23/32 might be more accurate
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so i saw my buddy tonight
the one guy he asked works in more of a dye/tap/mold place
he told him they can make the colette pretty easy and for cheap but to get everything set up would be a crazy price.
he is passing the info on directly to a machinist who can do the lath and see what he says
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Tool & dye work is pricey.
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he told him they can make the colette pretty easy and for cheap but to get everything set up would be a crazy price.
thats how they keep u coming back for more orders, and u almost have to till u get enough made to balance the set up price verse piece made. to get the ball rolling, ask them for the set up price and the cost of 4 dozen pieces. that makes 24 sets. take both costs and divide 24. that will be the cost per set. 500 set up + 10 a piece=980/24= $ 40.83 a set. even if it would be twice that, it still would be dirt cheap. also, dont forget about powder coating. ask the machine shop, they may point u in the right direction and get a good deal for the hook up. ed
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i told them brass was pref, do you powder coat brass?
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I'll offer to Gun Blue if Brass is used..I have the materials and know how...the coating is black and will never peal off....let me check on price for a 4 oz bottle if it is minimal I'd do it for free...
I can also offer to engrave a logo or ID into the brass but my boss would want to charge for that...
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Very cool. That sounds like a great option.
Would the blueing interfere with electrical connectivity if it gets on the threads?
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I'll try to talk to an outside machinist this week. Setup costs will be big, no doubt. But as ero said, just pass it on. I have yet to turn a piece of aluminum for the prototypes and already have 150 in three new bits. My machine shop said we needed them anyway so I'm not worried about it. One step at a time.
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Chuck that is a concern...I had planned on putting a cork or something on the Capsule end to protect the threads...fine steel wool would get back to a brass surface if there is an issue...
How should the inside of the Colette be treated? Brass will tarnish (go green) if exposed to the elements...the brass I work with has a Lacquer coating to protect it...
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I'll try to talk to an outside machinist this week. Setup costs will be big, no doubt. But as ero said, just pass it on. I have yet to turn a piece of aluminum for the prototypes and already have 150 in three new bits. My machine shop said we needed them anyway so I'm not worried about it. One step at a time.
Weird. The tooling required to do this is extremely basic. I would say the most basic, fundamental cutters you'd need to do lathe work. Plus, you are cutting the threads with a tap, not a cutter. Very few of the dimensions are critical.
Anyone with some experience can grind the tooling... on a grinder... out of a chunk of tool steel... Total cost, about a quarter. I have a little shoebox full of those cutters that I acquired with my lathe. Or you can buy indexed carbide cutters. Those should only be a few bucks each, plus the holder. But those are overkill.
(http://www.machinistblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/GrindingLathe08.gif)
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in the end it all evens out most likely but my first guy said they could make them for like $1 each, but the setup charge was "crazy"
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if TS'es boy can make a working prototype, some shop with auto set up should beable pop them out at will. deff get a set or two that Jon likes and that the peeps on this thread like, and go from there. send one set to Jon and if is a go, take the other set to a shop or send some where on line. sort of like a screen print shop. once u pay for the negitive and they put it on the silk, u can just call up and get another dozen shirts made, the hard part is done. hope all works out. here is another thing u can try. have a local vo-tech near by or know if any of your friends kids go to vo-tech? stop by, and see what they have to say. they do out side work for cheap, and if u know a kid going, it could be one of his projects!! seniors always need a final project to do!! once the proto is done, thats where i would take iit!! for sure. ed
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So, what's a CraZy set-up fee ???
$200?
So, make the first batch 50 units X $2.00 each + $200 (set-up) = $300 total
= $6.00 each. Twelve bucks for a pair...
That's reasonable to me.
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So, what's a CraZy set-up fee ???
$200?
So, make the first batch 50 units X $2.00 each + $200 (set-up) = $300 total
= $6.00 each. Twelve bucks for a pair...
That's reasonable to me.
he didn't know what crazy meant and didn't ask
i told him to try and find out but he is also moving on to another machinist in the mean time
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OK a quick update. Today I have finally found some time to begin cutting a prototype out of aluminum. We are doing it during working hours so it will be a slow process. I will post pics as soon as we can get one done.
I have also spoken with an outside machinist with an automatic lathe. He has Jon's drawings and sees no problems. All he needs is my tap. I hope to get a price from him by the end of the week for brass.
So my question at this point is how many of these do we need for the initial run? 10-15 pairs?
Thanks, ts.
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I have cash set aside in my paypal account right now. I'm in for a pair.
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I have cash set aside in my paypal account right now. I'm in for a pair.
me 2
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I have cash set aside in my paypal account right now. I'm in for a pair.
me 2
me 3
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Is there a Tinybox option to go with this setup or PFA's only?
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Is there a Tinybox option to go with this setup or PFA's only?
i recall talks of a tb and pfa but i don't know where it stands as of now
since the lb has been cut i hope there is a way to do both options with one set of cables because i would like to switch it up from time to time
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I have cash set aside in my paypal account right now. I'm in for a pair.
me 2
me 3
Me 4
Will...the TB and PFA can use a Mini XLR...The pig tail from the TB and PFA can be configured the same
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I'm still waiting on a ballpark figure. Thanks to all those involved BTW.
Hopefully there will be no need for a part 5!!!!! It got depressing after part two.
Tons of people are going to want these after the first run goes out.
Thanks again fellas, and Jon from Naint. Y'all rawk the house.
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My uncle is a machinist, and has his own lathe at home. I just need exact measurements and he said he will do it :) But where do I get the brass from?
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Count me in.
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Jon, can I just buy the circuit board at the collette end?
I can do the rest with a combination of brass screen, solder, duct tape, etc.
I was going to wait for the machined parts, but I don't really need them. Might as well get started if I can get the circuit board.
Richard
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My uncle is a machinist, and has his own lathe at home. I just need exact measurements and he said he will do it :) But where do I get the brass from?
Bean...you are looking for Round Brass Bar Stock 1 1/4" or 1 1/8" in diameter...
http://www1.mscdirect.com/eCommerce/NavigationServlet/Raw-Materials/Metals/Brass/Brass-Round-Rods/_/N-77dzl?refinement=4291540383&searchandizedOk=Y
A Welding Supply store may have it if you want to find a local source...if not try Graingers....
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/Rod-Stock-2ABL1?Pid=search
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Maybe Bean's uncle could make the hard wired version that will allow us to use Louie's Delrin stereo bars?
..just an idea...
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Count me in.
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I should have 2 samples ready to send to Jon early next week for fitting and testing. Also getting closer to a price. The hold up on that is quantity. But it looks to be well under 10 dollars a piece for brass. The samples will be based on Jon's design with a straight 21 mm OD. No step down. Top will be threaded for the cap and the bottom will be a 9mm bore hole per Jon's prints. Interior dimensions per Jon's prints.
About a half dozen folks have said OK. Please check the drawings Jon made using the emachineshop program. It's a free download. That is the one I am having made minus the step down on the OD. It is important that everyone knows that. I do not want to make 40 - 50 pairs only to find out that not everyone is cool with this design.
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I should have 2 samples ready to send to Jon early next week for fitting and testing. Also getting closer to a price. The hold up on that is quantity. But it looks to be well under 10 dollars a piece for brass. The samples will be based on Jon's design with a straight 21 mm OD. No step down. Top will be threaded for the cap and the bottom will be a 9mm bore hole per Jon's prints. Interior dimensions per Jon's prints.
About a half dozen folks have said OK. Please check the drawings Jon made using the emachineshop program. It's a free download. That is the one I am having made minus the step down on the OD. It is important that everyone knows that. I do not want to make 40 - 50 pairs only to find out that not everyone is cool with this design.
I'm cool with it, and I'm in for a pair.
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I should have 2 samples ready to send to Jon early next week for fitting and testing. Also getting closer to a price. The hold up on that is quantity. But it looks to be well under 10 dollars a piece for brass. The samples will be based on Jon's design with a straight 21 mm OD. No step down. Top will be threaded for the cap and the bottom will be a 9mm bore hole per Jon's prints. Interior dimensions per Jon's prints.
About a half dozen folks have said OK. Please check the drawings Jon made using the emachineshop program. It's a free download. That is the one I am having made minus the step down on the OD. It is important that everyone knows that. I do not want to make 40 - 50 pairs only to find out that not everyone is cool with this design.
what is the other design option? the one that goes down in size about half way back?
i much rather the straight how you are doing it now, it makes it much easier to put into a shock imo, its just like a mini body
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I should have 2 samples ready to send to Jon early next week for fitting and testing. Also getting closer to a price. The hold up on that is quantity. But it looks to be well under 10 dollars a piece for brass. The samples will be based on Jon's design with a straight 21 mm OD. No step down. Top will be threaded for the cap and the bottom will be a 9mm bore hole per Jon's prints. Interior dimensions per Jon's prints.
About a half dozen folks have said OK. Please check the drawings Jon made using the emachineshop program. It's a free download. That is the one I am having made minus the step down on the OD. It is important that everyone knows that. I do not want to make 40 - 50 pairs only to find out that not everyone is cool with this design.
what is the other design option? the one that goes down in size about half way back?
i much rather the straight how you are doing it now, it makes it much easier to put into a shock imo, its just like a mini body
Yes, this one is straight. No step down half way back. 21 mm, same as cap size, the entire length with a chamfer at the bottom. These things are tiny. Kudos to Jon for figuring out how to stuff these with electronics. :)
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I should have 2 samples ready to send to Jon early next week for fitting and testing. Also getting closer to a price. The hold up on that is quantity. But it looks to be well under 10 dollars a piece for brass. The samples will be based on Jon's design with a straight 21 mm OD. No step down. Top will be threaded for the cap and the bottom will be a 9mm bore hole per Jon's prints. Interior dimensions per Jon's prints.
About a half dozen folks have said OK. Please check the drawings Jon made using the emachineshop program. It's a free download. That is the one I am having made minus the step down on the OD. It is important that everyone knows that. I do not want to make 40 - 50 pairs only to find out that not everyone is cool with this design.
what is the other design option? the one that goes down in size about half way back?
i much rather the straight how you are doing it now, it makes it much easier to put into a shock imo, its just like a mini body
Yes, this one is straight. No step down half way back. 21 mm, same as cap size, the entire length with a chamfer at the bottom. These things are tiny. Kudos to Jon for figuring out how to stuff these with electronics. :)
wouldn't the step down make these compatible with the NOLA bars though? if these are just going to be going into a regular shock mount, why not just run full bodies? am i missing something?
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I should have 2 samples ready to send to Jon early next week for fitting and testing. Also getting closer to a price. The hold up on that is quantity. But it looks to be well under 10 dollars a piece for brass. The samples will be based on Jon's design with a straight 21 mm OD. No step down. Top will be threaded for the cap and the bottom will be a 9mm bore hole per Jon's prints. Interior dimensions per Jon's prints.
About a half dozen folks have said OK. Please check the drawings Jon made using the emachineshop program. It's a free download. That is the one I am having made minus the step down on the OD. It is important that everyone knows that. I do not want to make 40 - 50 pairs only to find out that not everyone is cool with this design.
what is the other design option? the one that goes down in size about half way back?
i much rather the straight how you are doing it now, it makes it much easier to put into a shock imo, its just like a mini body
Yes, this one is straight. No step down half way back. 21 mm, same as cap size, the entire length with a chamfer at the bottom. These things are tiny. Kudos to Jon for figuring out how to stuff these with electronics. :)
wouldn't the step down make these compatible with the NOLA bars though? if these are just going to be going into a regular shock mount, why not just run full bodies? am i missing something?
well depends on your mount
if you had one like the DPA use with the triangle "rubber band" inside or if you have AT mounts
i use windtech rubberband shocks and they are small/cheap and in my mind would work good
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i use windtech rubberband shocks and they are small/cheap and in my mind would work good
Can you point me to a picture of those rubberband shock mounts? I can't find them on the WindTech site.
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Can't there be something like ed's solution?
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=150779.0
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I would probably use these with a vark bar and A20S: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audix-D-Clip-Narrow-Body-Mic-Clip-/190599618052?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c609f5e04
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This is my plan if we don't make the capsule couplings workable with already existing mounting solutions.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=117392.msg1584500#msg1584500
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I should have 2 samples ready to send to Jon early next week for fitting and testing. Also getting closer to a price. The hold up on that is quantity. But it looks to be well under 10 dollars a piece for brass. The samples will be based on Jon's design with a straight 21 mm OD. No step down. Top will be threaded for the cap and the bottom will be a 9mm bore hole per Jon's prints. Interior dimensions per Jon's prints.
About a half dozen folks have said OK. Please check the drawings Jon made using the emachineshop program. It's a free download. That is the one I am having made minus the step down on the OD. It is important that everyone knows that. I do not want to make 40 - 50 pairs only to find out that not everyone is cool with this design.
what is the other design option? the one that goes down in size about half way back?
i much rather the straight how you are doing it now, it makes it much easier to put into a shock imo, its just like a mini body
Yes, this one is straight. No step down half way back. 21 mm, same as cap size, the entire length with a chamfer at the bottom. These things are tiny. Kudos to Jon for figuring out how to stuff these with electronics. :)
wouldn't the step down make these compatible with the NOLA bars though? if these are just going to be going into a regular shock mount, why not just run full bodies? am i missing something?
well depends on your mount
if you had one like the DPA use with the triangle "rubber band" inside or if you have AT mounts
i use windtech rubberband shocks and they are small/cheap and in my mind would work good
gotcha
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This is my plan if we don't make the capsule couplings workable with already existing mounting solutions.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=117392.msg1584500#msg1584500
D Clips come in handy.
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This is my plan if we don't make the capsule couplings workable with already existing mounting solutions.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=117392.msg1584500#msg1584500
that looks nice!
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i use windtech rubberband shocks and they are small/cheap and in my mind would work good
Can you point me to a picture of those rubberband shock mounts? I can't find them on the WindTech site.
this http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/298919-REG/WindTech_SP_20_SP_20_Microhone_Shockmount.html
they went up since i got mine for $6
they are actually 20mm, its a solid and tight fit on 460/80, perfect for 39x
you can side the collette in to the cap with the cable coming out the back
i like the looks of those pinch mounts in the schoeps thread and your naks too
basically what i was thinking with the windtech without having to buy anything, but the windtech way would def be bigger then the other 2
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this mounting set up was bought to be used with akg 460's, but sold my lot of them. think its going to work very well for a long time. ed
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I NEED those mic clips ero :)
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None of those mic clips will fit with windsreens like the big shures. Or, allow use of legacy schoeps bars.
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For windscreens my solution here has always been stock foams with small dead rats. Use the stock foams indoors and both outdoors. I really like Chucks mounting solution. Much cheaper than my Vark bar, A20S and Audix D clips. The D clips are perfect for the size of the colette being made.
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Not that I have a say or that there is time to change the design, but I agree that this current solution will not allow the use of larger windscreens and I think it would be hugely beneficial to design a collette that will fit the Schoeps delrin mounting bars. This would mean a hardwired cable, but that's never been a problem on most of the active setups already available.
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Not that I have a say or that there is time to change the design, but I agree that this current solution will not allow the use of larger windscreens and I think it would be hugely beneficial to design a collette that will fit the Schoeps delrin mounting bars. This would mean a hardwired cable, but that's never been a problem on most of the active setups already available.
hmm, I think it would mean a sturdy connector, not a hardwired one. Take a look at the mbho design, it affixes the capsule element to a minixlr which is what the clip holds onto. Beyer uses the same setup (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=115606.msg1819016#msg1819016) and one other maker does as well, can't remember who at the moment though.
PS: I don't have any stake in this either.
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None of those mic clips will fit with windsreens like the big shures. Or, allow use of legacy schoeps bars.
good point, i use the "big" dpa screens
i think they would work but you wouldn't be able to slide it on all the way, but enough to cover the cap
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Not that I have a say or that there is time to change the design, but I agree that this current solution will not allow the use of larger windscreens and I think it would be hugely beneficial to design a collette that will fit the Schoeps delrin mounting bars. This would mean a hardwired cable, but that's never been a problem on most of the active setups already available.
hmm, I think it would mean a sturdy connector, not a hardwired one. Take a look at the mbho design, it affixes the capsule element to a minixlr which is what the clip holds onto. Beyer uses the same setup (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=115606.msg1819016#msg1819016) and one other maker does as well, can't remember who at the moment though.
PS: I don't have any stake in this either.
Not speaking from personal experience, but I would imagine those delrin bars are somewhat inferior to the Schoeps one. The Schoeps Kwon/Nola bars are far more common the the Neumann/MBHO variants and are the most streamlined. Someone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (which is a good bet).
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Not that I have a say or that there is time to change the design, but I agree that this current solution will not allow the use of larger windscreens and I think it would be hugely beneficial to design a collette that will fit the Schoeps delrin mounting bars. This would mean a hardwired cable, but that's never been a problem on most of the active setups already available.
I have a clip that I believe solves all of these issues fairly elegantly, and allows the use of schoeps bars. I will probably productize it once the active setup is actually available.
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Not that I have a say or that there is time to change the design, but I agree that this current solution will not allow the use of larger windscreens and I think it would be hugely beneficial to design a collette that will fit the Schoeps delrin mounting bars. This would mean a hardwired cable, but that's never been a problem on most of the active setups already available.
hmm, I think it would mean a sturdy connector, not a hardwired one. Take a look at the mbho design, it affixes the capsule element to a minixlr which is what the clip holds onto. Beyer uses the same setup (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=115606.msg1819016#msg1819016) and one other maker does as well, can't remember who at the moment though.
PS: I don't have any stake in this either.
Not speaking from personal experience, but I would imagine those delrin bars are somewhat inferior to the Schoeps one. The Schoeps Kwon/Nola bars are far more common the the Neumann/MBHO variants and are the most streamlined. Someone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (which is a good bet).
yes, the schoeps bars are far more common, I suspect because there are more schoeps users who choose to use them is part of it. As far as inferiority, I guess I'm missing in what aspect.
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here r my options for out doors with my active set up. the clips r strong enough to hold the KC housing all the way to the end with no probs. your stock wind screens fit nice as do the dpa's, and i LOVE the Rode Dead Kitten by itself or over the stock screens. i also us it on my schoeps cmxy4v's with great results. it has a silky inside so u dont mind it right on your mic's. it just the right size. your could probably just use a Rycote wind jammer that covers the baby ball gag and cover the whole thing. would never use the shure big ass screens, but dont see y they wouldnt fit. hopefuly the project gets to the point where u'all have to find a mounting solution, that would be a good thing!!?? right? ed
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Thanks ed! I was going to post something similar. Many options for screens, just no big ass Shures. Like I said I use a Vark bar, an A20S and Audix D clips with stock foamies and small dead rats for my Franken Naks, Akg CKx caps, DPA 4023's and I will now use the same mounting solution for the new AKG CK6x actives! With such a nice small rig who wants to lug around those big ass shures. I have the big ass shures and I only use them when I have my big ass bag with my big ass rig. :laugh:
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Not that I have a say or that there is time to change the design, but I agree that this current solution will not allow the use of larger windscreens and I think it would be hugely beneficial to design a collette that will fit the Schoeps delrin mounting bars. This would mean a hardwired cable, but that's never been a problem on most of the active setups already available.
hmm, I think it would mean a sturdy connector, not a hardwired one. Take a look at the mbho design, it affixes the capsule element to a minixlr which is what the clip holds onto. Beyer uses the same setup (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=115606.msg1819016#msg1819016) and one other maker does as well, can't remember who at the moment though.
PS: I don't have any stake in this either.
Not speaking from personal experience, but I would imagine those delrin bars are somewhat inferior to the Schoeps one. The Schoeps Kwon/Nola bars are far more common the the Neumann/MBHO variants and are the most streamlined. Someone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (which is a good bet).
Not that I have a say or that there is time to change the design, but I agree that this current solution will not allow the use of larger windscreens and I think it would be hugely beneficial to design a collette that will fit the Schoeps delrin mounting bars. This would mean a hardwired cable, but that's never been a problem on most of the active setups already available.
hmm, I think it would mean a sturdy connector, not a hardwired one. Take a look at the mbho design, it affixes the capsule element to a minixlr which is what the clip holds onto. Beyer uses the same setup (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=115606.msg1819016#msg1819016) and one other maker does as well, can't remember who at the moment though.
PS: I don't have any stake in this either.
Not speaking from personal experience, but I would imagine those delrin bars are somewhat inferior to the Schoeps one. The Schoeps Kwon/Nola bars are far more common the the Neumann/MBHO variants and are the most streamlined. Someone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (which is a good bet).
yes, the schoeps bars are far more common, I suspect because there are more schoeps users who choose to use them is part of it. As far as inferiority, I guess I'm missing in what aspect.
Having owned both the Kwon style MBHO Bars, and the NOLA Bars that I now own, I can say the quality is just the same. Theyre well worth the price tag IMO, because of btheir simplicity :)
In what ways do you think theyre inferior ???
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i use windtech rubberband shocks and they are small/cheap and in my mind would work good
Can you point me to a picture of those rubberband shock mounts? I can't find them on the WindTech site.
this http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/298919-REG/WindTech_SP_20_SP_20_Microhone_Shockmount.html
Yep, they would be a ton bigger which is why I suggested Ed's way.
Here's a pic of the windtechs on a akg bar with cmc64's. They were super snug when I ran the scheps. When I ran 460's they were super snug. They seem to fit 39x series the best.
(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u46/newplanet7/196583_1908522828130_1093602600_32245708_7640885_n.jpg)
Eds way looks bomb to me. YMMV.
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i use windtech rubberband shocks and they are small/cheap and in my mind would work good
Can you point me to a picture of those rubberband shock mounts? I can't find them on the WindTech site.
this http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/298919-REG/WindTech_SP_20_SP_20_Microhone_Shockmount.html
Yep, they would be a ton bigger which is why I suggested Ed's way.
Here's a pic of the windtechs on a akg bar with cmc64's. They were super snug when I ran the scheps. When I ran 460's they were super snug. They seem to fit 39x series the best.
(http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u46/newplanet7/196583_1908522828130_1093602600_32245708_7640885_n.jpg)
Eds way looks bomb to me. YMMV.
yeah eds is def much smaller
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Yeah will.
I think me and you have chatted about this before??? They seemed tailor made for the se300 series.
Def workable but super snug with the 460/480. Hell, I just ended u using the sa40 akg clips after a while.
Smokinjoe and I feel the same way about those. Low pro and love 'em.
-todd
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I have 2 shure donuts and I still use my cheapo windtech rubber mount like those are ;)
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Not that I have a say or that there is time to change the design, but I agree that this current solution will not allow the use of larger windscreens and I think it would be hugely beneficial to design a collette that will fit the Schoeps delrin mounting bars. This would mean a hardwired cable, but that's never been a problem on most of the active setups already available.
I have a clip that I believe solves all of these issues fairly elegantly, and allows the use of schoeps bars. I will probably productize it once the active setup is actually available.
Will this clip fit our Gefell actives too?
:'(
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My uncle said he just needs the EXACT measurements and he will spit out a few pieces of the brass collette :)
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My uncle said he just needs the EXACT measurements and he will spit out a few pieces of the brass collette :)
Pretty sure this is it:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=144978.msg1913078#msg1913078
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My uncle said he just needs the EXACT measurements and he will spit out a few pieces of the brass collette :)
Pretty sure this is it:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=144978.msg1913078#msg1913078
the inside MIGHT be 23/32 instead of 11/16
ts machinist said that was the correct size for the threads to be made via the tap
jon said go with what he says
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My uncle said he just needs the EXACT measurements and he will spit out a few pieces of the brass collette :)
Pretty sure this is it:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=144978.msg1913078#msg1913078
the inside MIGHT be 23/32 instead of 11/16
ts machinist said that was the correct size for the threads to be made via the tap
jon said go with what he says
Also, do yinz expect my uncle to to the tap threading? Im not sure hes capable of that!
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Beaner....Jon Naiant has the tap for the AKG threads...if you sent the colette to him I suppose he could make the threads for the test subjects...then whom ever goes into production Jon has said he would ship the tap to that person.
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My uncle said he just needs the EXACT measurements and he will spit out a few pieces of the brass collette :)
Pretty sure this is it:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=144978.msg1913078#msg1913078
the inside MIGHT be 23/32 instead of 11/16
ts machinist said that was the correct size for the threads to be made via the tap
jon said go with what he says
Also, do yinz expect my uncle to to the tap threading? Im not sure hes capable of that!
he prob has a tap already, most machinists do have different sizes
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3/4 -32 tap and 23/32 bottoming out bits are oddballs. About 50 each. I just happen to have both. 8)
update: my machinist is almost done with 2 brass pieces, no stepdown, 21mm OD top to bottom. After that and Jon's approval on the first 2, I will have him do 2 pieces with the stepdown to 18mm. One of the problems with the stepdown is it leaves the walls at the base of the colette very thin. A solution may be to eliminate the chamfer at the base.
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3/4 -32 tap and 23/32 bottoming out bits are oddballs. About 50 each. I just happen to have both. 8)
update: my machinist is almost done with 2 brass pieces, no stepdown, 21mm OD top to bottom. After that and Jon's approval on the first 2, I will have him do 2 pieces with the stepdown to 18mm. One of the problems with the stepdown is it leaves the walls at the base of the colette very thin. A solution may be to eliminate the chamfer at the base.
I'm looking forward to something "concrete" happening here. Thanks for your efforts!! Gefell users are monitoring this project too in the hopes that we will also reap the benefits of Jon's electronics...
:cheers:
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3/4 -32 tap and 23/32 bottoming out bits are oddballs. About 50 each. I just happen to have both. 8)
update: my machinist is almost done with 2 brass pieces, no stepdown, 21mm OD top to bottom. After that and Jon's approval on the first 2, I will have him do 2 pieces with the stepdown to 18mm. One of the problems with the stepdown is it leaves the walls at the base of the colette very thin. A solution may be to eliminate the chamfer at the base.
what is the benefit of tapper down vs straight? and what is a chamfer?
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3/4 -32 tap and 23/32 bottoming out bits are oddballs. About 50 each. I just happen to have both. 8)
update: my machinist is almost done with 2 brass pieces, no stepdown, 21mm OD top to bottom. After that and Jon's approval on the first 2, I will have him do 2 pieces with the stepdown to 18mm. One of the problems with the stepdown is it leaves the walls at the base of the colette very thin. A solution may be to eliminate the chamfer at the base.
what is the benefit of tapper down vs straight? and what is a chamfer?
Glad you asked will. I believe the tapered/stepdown colette is the one that will work with the nola style bars, but I'm not sure on that. The chamfer is the angle at the bottom of the colette. In the drawings it's real close to the inner wall of the colette. When we were cutting one out of aluminum it collapsed. I will find out if it will work with brass.
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thanks
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Well it's been almost one month since I offered to help out with the colettes. Took longer than I thought. :P These are ready for stuffing and testing.
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:realhappy:
Awesome!
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Some pics with my mounting solution. Vark Bar, Schoeps A20S and generic clips. Obviously DINa, but I have different length bars being made.
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Couple more...
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one more...
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Looking good Tony!
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Wow!!! Those look fanstastic. Thanks for contributing to the awesomeness that is ts.com. :)
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Wow. Awesome.
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Nice job!
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these look great! one question though... brass kind of scares me regarding how malleable it is and the threads. do you think thread stripping might be a problem?
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Nice job!
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A lot nicer than anything that would have come off my drill press, that's for sure . . .
Your precise drawings made it easy. :)
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^ to me those photos are true taper porn. :jawdrop:
How is the fit, form and function?
Obviously the screw threads match and work...
Are they heavy? Any things you'd change for the production run?
Next step to see how Jon's circuit fits and works?
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^ to me those photos are true taper porn. :jawdrop:
How is the fit, form and function?
Obviously the screw threads match and work...
Are they heavy? Any things you'd change for the production run?
Next step to see how Jon's circuit fits and works?
yeah i got a chubby ;)
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Some pics with my mounting solution. Vark Bar, Schoeps A20S and generic clips. Obviously DINa, but I have different length bars being made.
looks vaguely familiar ;D hope all works out for everyone. ed
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Sorry to be off topic, but who makes those generic clips?
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I never thought I'd see the day...
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These are ready for stuffing and testing.
Nice! Can he do a shot glass version?
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TS that is pure beauty....
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TS thanks for working on these. The Gefell folks are still hopeful that they will wind up with a "happy ending" as well.
;)
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^ to me those photos are true taper porn. :jawdrop:
How is the fit, form and function?
Obviously the screw threads match and work...
Are they heavy? Any things you'd change for the production run?
Next step to see how Jon's circuit fits and works?
Chuck, the fit is very good. Threads are perfect. Colette diameter and cap are a perfect match. Brass is not light but they are small enough to not add a serious amount of weight. As Jon said, brass is brass, do not over tighten.
Shot glass. :hmmm: Don't know about that. ;D I tried aluminum for practice runs.
The clips are left overs from a J disc. Core Sound may be able to source them. Audix Dclips are nice or any small SD clip.
Can't think of anything I would change. Jon's specs are right on. Outside diameter is good for any SD mic clip. As you can see many types of windscreen options. Lets just hope the electronics fit and the test is a success. The price will also be very good. I don't have the exact number yet.
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WOW !!! Great job, sure looking forward to getting a pair of these.
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How to get a set of these, complete with electronics, cabling etc?
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How to get a set of these, complete with electronics, cabling etc?
It remains to be approved by Jon as a Product in the Naiant Line...keep checking in this thread....
FTR I plan on being in on the initial run just in case...put your order in for a set of Colettes when it happens...
Naiant will provide PFA-Tiny Box's to supply Voltage , FET electronics-connectors and final assembly...As far as I know you will be on your own for cabling with the TS Cable guys Ted and Darktrain between the PFA - Tiny Box and Colette
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Yay!
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Those photos look great, thanks ts! I'm looking forward to seeing this project come to fruition.
I have a set of Audio Technica AT8533 power modules that came with a pair of AT853Rx mics. Does anyone know if these would these work in place of the Naiant PFA? As far as I know, they aren't specific to AT mics.
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Those photos look great, thanks ts! I'm looking forward to seeing this project come to fruition.
I have a set of Audio Technica AT8533 power modules that came with a pair of AT853Rx mics. Does anyone know if these would these work in place of the Naiant PFA? As far as I know, they aren't specific to AT mics.
Those provide 9v power to the 853's. I think the ck6_ caps require a different voltage.
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Ted, our CKx Tinybox is 12V, right? I don't know what the CK6x caps require. I was kinda hoping the TB I already have would do the job, but probably not.
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Ted, our CKx Tinybox is 12V, right? I don't know what the CK6x caps require. I was kinda hoping the TB I already have would do the job, but probably not.
Yes, the ck1x tiny box is 12v (pin 1,4,5 ground, pin 2 right, pin 3 left).
PS: I finally got around to building a proper cable for a ck1x > Naiant PFA rig. Pretty much the goal of this whole project ;D I couldn't seem to make it work with the 5pin tiny box(1.0v), but now that I have a 6pin Tinybox (1.5v) it works like a charm.
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Ted, our CKx Tinybox is 12V, right? I don't know what the CK6x caps require. I was kinda hoping the TB I already have would do the job, but probably not.
Yes, the ck1x tiny box is 12v (pin 1,4,5 ground, pin 2 right, pin 3 left).
PS: I finally got around to building a proper cable for a ck1x > Naiant PFA rig. Pretty much the goal of this whole project ;D I couldn't seem to make it work with the 5pin tiny box(1.0v), but now that I have a 6pin Tinybox (1.5v) it works like a charm.
So do you think the CK1x TB will power the CK6x caps?
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So do you think the CK1x TB will power the CK6x caps?
Paging Jon from Naiant, please report to the akg actives thread!
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Here's another low profile mic clip. Probably lower profile than the D clip:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Audix-MC2-D-Clip-Mic-Clip-270640-i1603610.gc.
I use these with my Franken Naks. I'm sure they will fit the new colette.
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The 6x caps need a high polarization voltage, 40V or more. So no low-volt only solutions (AT8533, v1 tinybox) are going to work. v1.5 tinyboxes need to be reconfigured if they weren't originally built with the high-voltage output.
So it looks like I need another Tinybox. Three's a charm. ;D I would like a black one for #3. :)
Jon, as you know I currently have an 8.5V TB for my chopped Nak 700's and a 12V for the CK1x caps.
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these look great! one question though... brass kind of scares me regarding how malleable it is and the threads. do you think thread stripping might be a problem?
The capsules are brass, you don't want to use a harder metal as then you'd strip the capsule threads rather than the (much cheaper to replace) coupler threads.
Or . . . just don't overtorque the capsule to the coupler, and take care not to cross-thread.
good point.
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It's possible to reconfigure the Nak tinybox for both if it's v1.5.
pretty sure it's version 1.
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It's possible to reconfigure the Nak tinybox for both if it's v1.5.
pretty sure it's version 1.
Jon, correct me if i am wrong...
V 1.0 = 5pin mini
V 1.5 = 6pin mini
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It's possible to reconfigure the Nak tinybox for both if it's v1.5.
pretty sure it's version 1.
Jon, correct me if i am wrong...
V 1.0 = 5pin mini
V 1.5 = 6pin mini
v1 only has the 5-pin mini-XLR, v1.5 can have a 6-pin mini-XLR or a couple different Binders. Either can have a minijack input too, but those aren't at issue here.
Unfortunately the upcoming v2 will look the same as v1.5 . . . although I am getting into these panel colors, so maybe I will get v2 a pretty new color.
is that pref or is it based on what mics the person is using?
for color, the black looked sweet but the silver is fine imo if it helps keep the cost down too thats a plus
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yes i have nothing to do this morning and hope you are having a nice thanksgiving
:guitarist:
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Here's another low profile mic clip. Probably lower profile than the D clip:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Audix-MC2-D-Clip-Mic-Clip-270640-i1603610.gc.
I use these with my Franken Naks. I'm sure they will fit the new colette.
ts, have you tried that clip with the colette?
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I picked this mount up for some Franken Naks...It will be used for my AKG Active Rig....god willing
Audix D Clips
Busman Shock Mount
Two 3/8 to 5/8 adapters ran together on a 3/8 stud
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-aB_a0t9yJZ4/Ts6dKMba28I/AAAAAAAAAIs/YKHCa44epIw/s640/IMG_20111124_143735.jpg)
Indoor HVAC windscreens...these came with some Teac ME80's
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-sQq0bGRxViw/Ts6cyZq1y7I/AAAAAAAAAIk/e9T3DbiP69s/s640/IMG_20111124_143024.jpg)
For Outdoors I have these
(http://www.sweetwater.com/images/items/750/AT4041WS-large.jpg)
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AT4041WS/
I was real disappointed with the size...Thought they were DPA Windscreen but they are tiny...the good news is my AT853a Fraggle fits it like a glove!
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5fgyt-JzdX4/Ts6cqCyqJ6I/AAAAAAAAAIc/R45oWaBaMbE/s640/IMG_20111124_143528.jpg)
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Here's another low profile mic clip. Probably lower profile than the D clip:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Audix-MC2-D-Clip-Mic-Clip-270640-i1603610.gc.
I use these with my Franken Naks. I'm sure they will fit the new colette.
ts, have you tried that clip with the colette?
chuck, didn't have a chance. already sent the colettes to jon. they should work. i'll compare the nak 300's to the 460/480 bodies tomorrow.
happy bird day!
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-U36d8sBuSe4/Ts73WHQEpkI/AAAAAAAAAI0/7qgXV8pISuk/s640/IMG_20111124_210234.jpg)
CM100 Nak's are practically the same diameter as CK61's
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So there has officially been a collette made for the ck6x's ??? Thats AWESOME! Too bad Im buying a pair of BSC2s instead :P But I'll probably buy some ck63s when this ship gets going. I'm going to need an r44 or two :P ;D 8)
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Pics of Audix MC12 clips with AKG CK63 caps and Franken Naks by request.
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Nice pics. How tight is the fit?
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Clips I have that work well with the colette and have a tight/snug fit.
The taller Audix D clip, the generic clips and the EV clip are compression fit. The Audix MC12 is slide on.
First pic is both Audix clips side by side and second pic is an angled EV clip shown with the generic Jdisc clip.
The Audix clips and the EV clips are easy to find. The generic Jdisc clip could be tough.
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started building my new active rig, got a 8gb micro sd card to go with what will be my tb > (2nd) m10
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As I enjoy my last Dogfish Head Punkin, I'm really diggin Hypnos mount with the D clips. The D clips are just the right size to put some space between the caps. Eliminating the vark bar completely. :coolguy: Works with A20S to. This rig keeps getting smaller and smaller. :)
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Now you'll see what all the buzz is about w/ running Schoeps. Actives and the smaller, the better :)
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schempz. ::) beaner, this is all about "naiant studios/akg CK63"(best hypers period)active cables>Tinybox>M10. :-*
Jon, you need to start working on a name for this. :)
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schempz. ::) beaner, this is all about "naiant studios/akg CK63"(best hypers period)active cables>Tinybox>M10. :-*
Jon, you need to start working on a name for this. :)
don't worry, bean will buy and sell 3 things at least by christmas and ask for money as gifts just so he can get the rig listed
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schempz. ::) beaner, this is all about "naiant studios/akg CK63"(best hypers period)active cables>Tinybox>M10. :-*
Jon, you need to start working on a name for this. :)
don't worry, bean will buy and sell 3 things at least by christmas and ask for money as gifts just so he can get the rig listed
Whats that supposed to mean? I AM selling everything(CA-wise) and getting a 2nd pair of mics. Busman Actives BABYEE
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schempz. ::) beaner, this is all about "naiant studios/akg CK63"(best hypers period)active cables>Tinybox>M10. :-*
Jon, you need to start working on a name for this. :)
don't worry, bean will buy and sell 3 things at least by christmas and ask for money as gifts just so he can get the rig listed
Whats that supposed to mean? I AM selling everything(CA-wise) and getting a 2nd pair of mics. Busman Actives BABYEE
it just means you switch things up and there is nothing wrong with that, but i am willing to bet you end up with a pair of naiant akg actives sooner then later >:D
on a side note i had the bsc1 and always said if i needed money BAD the akg went over them, they are real solid mics for the price
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Does busman sell the schoeps style shock mounts solo or do you have to buy a mic set?
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He will sell them by themselves!! They are great for active setups.
Does busman sell the schoeps style shock mounts solo or do you have to buy a mic set?
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The Busman BCS2's were on sale for 550 over the weekend. :o
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He will sell them by themselves!! They are great for active setups.
Does busman sell the schoeps style shock mounts solo or do you have to buy a mic set?
You can get a Single on eBay that looks real similar to mine...
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/3/0/9/1/2/7/webimg/428174846_o.jpg?nc=390)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Mic-Clip-Clamp-Holder-Shock-Mounts-Suspension-70-/290516249645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a41e2c2d#ht_2176wt_952
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>:D >:D According to his site they are still on the sale price.
The Busman BCS2's were on sale for 550 over the weekend. :o
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i found the bm shocks to be a little loose for 480
of course this would be a different setup but personally i feel like they are made for mics over 21mm
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The Busman BCS2's were on sale for 550 over the weekend. :o
Damn... nice price on that for sure!
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i found the bm shocks to be a little loose for 480
of course this would be a different setup but personally i feel like they are made for mics over 21mm
I don't know the 480 but the busman mount fit my SP C4 (which I believe is just under 21mm) very nicely.
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i found the bm shocks to be a little loose for 480
of course this would be a different setup but personally i feel like they are made for mics over 21mm
I don't know the 480 but the busman mount fit my SP C4 (which I believe is just under 21mm) very nicely.
A layer of self adhesive felt will help and protect too
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i found the bm shocks to be a little loose for 480
of course this would be a different setup but personally i feel like they are made for mics over 21mm
I think the Buses are the same size as the Joe Meeks. They are larger than the Schempz and too large for the Vark Bar. I have to wrap tape around my Vark with them.
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He will sell them by themselves!! They are great for active setups.
Does busman sell the schoeps style shock mounts solo or do you have to buy a mic set?
You can get a Single on eBay that looks real similar to mine...
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/3/0/9/1/2/7/webimg/428174846_o.jpg?nc=390)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Mic-Clip-Clamp-Holder-Shock-Mounts-Suspension-70-/290516249645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a41e2c2d#ht_2176wt_952
i just made an offer of $12 and it was accepted! thanks for the find.
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Busman shock are alot smaller than the Meeks!!
i found the bm shocks to be a little loose for 480
of course this would be a different setup but personally i feel like they are made for mics over 21mm
I think the Buses are the same size as the Joe Meeks. They are larger than the Schempz and too large for the Vark Bar. I have to wrap tape around my Vark with them.
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I wonder if these caps would work with the new setup. If the 260's can run the CK6 caps, why not?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/811335-REG/Telefunken_ELA_M_260_STEREO_FIELD_RE_ELA_M_260_Small.html
Also not a bad price on a stereo tube set with three sets of caps. I've seen these mics in action. The owner of this new Telefunkun company was on Dead/Phish tour in '09 testing these mics. The Dead used his vox mic. I think Phish did/does to.
edit to add: There is some type of adapter to allow CK6 caps to work with these mics.
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^^ You can register to win a pair of those tube Tele's!!
http://recordinghacks.com/contest/
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thanks for the link
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^^ You can register to win a pair of those tube Tele's!!
http://recordinghacks.com/contest/
Thanks audball. It looks like this set is with the bulky power supply. Maybe it can be swapped for the field set?
It could be fun finding a pic of my "home studio". :laugh:
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H20 makes HQ power solutions for tube mics. he made tonedeafs for the schoeps m221b t00bes, and I see it all thew time. Its SUPER HQ and isnt that big at all!
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Is there a working set of AKG CK6x actives??
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TS sent the first Brass Colette set that he and a co-worker machined to Jon...we hope for the best...
>:D
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Is there a working set of AKG CK6x actives??
sure
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=151862.0
8)
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Is there a working set of Naiant AKG CK6x actives??
FIFY Chris
:)
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Thanks for that. ;)
I haven't really been following this thread much, but I just read back a few pages. Nice colettes being made but what is the hole on the non capsule side all about?
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Thanks for that. ;)
I haven't really been following this thread much, but I just read back a few pages. Nice colettes being made but what is the hole on the non capsule side all about?
Cable....
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Nice colettes being made but what is the hole on the non capsule side all about?
George Costanza: "That's where the electricity comes out."
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Cable....
OK. Guess some large guage cables then?
edited to add....just read back a litle further...looks like some kind of connector will be used which is why the hole seems larger. Cool.
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The cable wont be hardwired with the current design. That hole is for the binder connection.
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Maybe a little off topic but I found a mini clip that works perfectly with the lemo connector Ted uses with the CK1x>actives>Tinybox setup.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/532997-REG/Sennheiser_MZQ8001_MZQ_8001_Remote_Microphone_Mini.html
And to bring it back on topic it may work with Jon's colette connector if this is the one he ends up using.
edit to add: Yes, these are pricey but the Schoeps SGC doesn't fit and the SGCM needs major tinkering to get it to fit.
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Maybe a little off topic but I found a mini clip that works perfectly with the lemo connector Ted uses with the CK1x>actives>Tinybox setup.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/532997-REG/Sennheiser_MZQ8001_MZQ_8001_Remote_Microphone_Mini.html
And to bring it back on topic it may work with Jon's colette connector if this is the one he ends up using.
edit to add: Yes, these are pricey but the Schoeps SGC doesn't fit and the SGCM needs major tinkering to get it to fit.
$60 :o
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Maybe a little off topic but I found a mini clip that works perfectly with the lemo connector Ted uses with the CK1x>actives>Tinybox setup.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/532997-REG/Sennheiser_MZQ8001_MZQ_8001_Remote_Microphone_Mini.html
And to bring it back on topic it may work with Jon's colette connector if this is the one he ends up using.
edit to add: Yes, these are pricey but the Schoeps SGC doesn't fit and the SGCM needs major tinkering to get it to fit.
$60 :o
Yea, right. plus it's plastic. :P
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Here is a thought. Why not just have a slitght grove machined into the next batch of connectors say 1mm deep and as wide as the lyre on a rycote invision shock mount. they are small enough to keep thing lo profile and the best shock on the market.
OOK
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Here is a thought. Why not just have a slitght grove machined into the next batch of connectors say 1mm deep and as wide as the lyre on a rycote invision shock mount. they are small enough to keep thing lo profile and the best shock on the market.
OOK
as an owner of the invision mounts, I agree that I think they are the best mount on the market today, but if you're using 2 of them (1 for each cap), I think you've lost the low-profile race... I use one in a kwon-bar setup and if I wanted something smaller I'd go to the A53 donut (which is the second best shockmount in terms of effect). just my 2 cents
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Here is a thought. Why not just have a slitght grove machined into the next batch of connectors say 1mm deep and as wide as the lyre on a rycote invision shock mount. they are small enough to keep thing lo profile and the best shock on the market.
OOK
as an owner of the invision mounts, I agree that I think they are the best mount on the market today, but if you're using 2 of them (1 for each cap), I think you've lost the low-profile race... I use one in a kwon-bar setup and if I wanted something smaller I'd go to the A53 donut (which is the second best shockmount in terms of effect). just my 2 cents
forgot about the donut, that probably would be better. OOK
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Here is a thought. Why not just have a slitght grove machined into the next batch of connectors say 1mm deep and as wide as the lyre on a rycote invision shock mount. they are small enough to keep thing lo profile and the best shock on the market.
OOK
as an owner of the invision mounts, I agree that I think they are the best mount on the market today, but if you're using 2 of them (1 for each cap), I think you've lost the low-profile race... I use one in a kwon-bar setup and if I wanted something smaller I'd go to the A53 donut (which is the second best shockmount in terms of effect). just my 2 cents
forgot about the donut, that probably would be better. OOK
I think it depends on the objective. I use a single rycote in a kwon setup and I don't think i'm sacrificing much in terms of space or visual appearance for a gain in shock resistance, but I wouldn't want to use two if I was trying to keep a small aerial footprint.
If I had to be more incognito though, for a slight trade off in noise reduction, I'd switch to a single A53. I don't think either are bad, but they are oriented to different goals in my mind.
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You need two wires coming from that box ;)
Hey Ms. Are you willing to release your schematic for the PFA you use with the Actives?
I'd like to try building my own (hard connection) version of the CK6x actives. Also, I have a set of older (1980's vintage) Beyerdynamic actives that I would like to try out. My naive PFA worked, but it introduced a lot noise (from the Phantom power supply?), so I'd like to try yours.
Thanks!
Richard
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Any updates on testing or cost of collettes?
Thinking of getting a tb now since I have some holiday cash but don't want to do it if things are not moving in the right direction
Finally cable wise, has anyone talked to Robb or teddy about this project? Interested to know what cables/adaptors I would need (would like to have the active set up and the option to run soundpro stealth mics if I wanted too. Jon posted the pin lay out for that set up)
Thanks for input
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Someone will be getting a Christmas present. I will need to tweak the drawing on the couplings, I guess I had made some changes on my prototype that never made it back to the drawing, but the thread hole needs to be about 3mm deeper (just the drill, not the tap), and the whole package can probably be a couple mm shorter.
As for the PFA schemo I will have to clean it up a lot to be legible, it's a joint schematic shared with three other products and of course there are several different PFA configurations . . . I'll try to get to that within a week or so.
Thanks for the PFA information. What I was planning to do is to just hardwire my capsules. The collette circuit would just use a self-biased fet, a 1G bias resistor and a few other parts. I've adopted the old Beyerdynamic wiring: one pin for 40-48V, ground and audio out. The 40-48V wire supplies both the bias and FET current. A bit wasteful of power, but I just followed that scheme.
Richard
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any ideas how these actives should sound versus the 480's?
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any ideas how these actives should sound versus the 480's?
Everyone whom has participated on this thread is wondering the exact same thing...Hope to hear something by the first of the year!
The only thing remotely close is Ted's CK1x and Naiant PFA rig he just started running...he felt it sounded fine compared to the old C460b body and AKG Active Cable setup...
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As for the PFA schemo I will have to clean it up a lot to be legible, it's a joint schematic shared with three other products and of course there are several different PFA configurations . . . I'll try to get to that within a week or so.
Cool! Thanks! That should be educational.
I'm also curious about the coupler schematic. There seem to be a few different approaches, though they may not be all that different.
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any ideas how these actives should sound versus the 480's?
Everyone whom has participated on this thread is wondering the exact same thing...Hope to hear something by the first of the year!
The only thing remotely close is Ted's CK1x and Naiant PFA rig he just started running...he felt it sounded fine compared to the old C460b body and AKG Active Cable setup...
Here's one of my recordings with the CK1x>Tinybox. I think the setup is just fine. A tad warmer than your typical AKG sound.
http://www.archive.org/details/furthur2011-07-16.akg.suraci.114603.flac16
Also I have Phish MSG coming up. A Christmas present sure would be nice. ;)
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The only thing remotely close is Ted's CK1x and Naiant PFA rig he just started running...he felt it sounded fine compared to the old C460b body and AKG Active Cable setup...
The other thing that might be somewhat close is the old ck6X capsules > JKlabs boxes (ECMS or DVC). I'd assume the jklabs setups using the ck6x caps would probably sound more akin to what these Naiant solutions will be than the ck1x caps, given that the capsule will have more of an effect on sound than the preamp/PFA/whatever.
Either way though, it sounds like Ted found the PFA setup with the ck1x caps to sound like the caps did with the 460 bodies, and I found the ck6x caps with the jklabs ECMS box to sound very similar to the to the ck6x caps with the 480 bodies, having owned and ran both. You're changing around the electronics behind the capsules with this new setup so it's bound to sound a little different on close examination, but I'd wager that it still will sound very much like the ck6x caps sound with the 480 bodies (and perhaps a bit different from the 460 bodies, since those are transformer mics).
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Meanwhile in the camera/lens world.. just to give some inspiration.. sorry going O.O.T but this is closely related...
Ed Mika + others (@ Ontario, Canada) knew that there were no proper FD-EF adapters / conversion kits.. that would make it possible to mount old FD lenses without extra glass (makes lens slower, softer etc.) into Canon EOS DSLRs (EF mount) and started building their own full blown CNC setup to do these brass mount conversion kits themselves and selling these in ebay... they started with FD Tilt Shift lens conversion kit (as this is a conversion kit and not adapter due the sensor distance problem that requires the extra glass)
The mount is full brass and was thinking that if it would be fruitful to ask these guys if they want to contribute the collettte into this project as well?
Discussion thread here about the CNC setup etc.:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,2337.0.html
pics of the setup:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ontarian/6459076305/
ebay containing the story w/ finished product:
http://r.ebay.com/m8EhDp
that spring especially looks interesting.. F1 suspension go figure? err
bought this yesterday myself + the solid built FD TS lens that I found from the local auction site (that is btw ~1.5k$ cheaper than the EF modern TS-E lens.. )
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any ideas how these actives should sound versus the 480's?
Everyone whom has participated on this thread is wondering the exact same thing...Hope to hear something by the first of the year!
The only thing remotely close is Ted's CK1x and Naiant PFA rig he just started running...he felt it sounded fine compared to the old C460b body and AKG Active Cable setup...
Here's one of my recordings with the CK1x>Tinybox. I think the setup is just fine. A tad warmer than your typical AKG sound.
http://www.archive.org/details/furthur2011-07-16.akg.suraci.114603.flac16
Also I have Phish MSG coming up. A Christmas present sure would be nice. ;)
nice, thanks!
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2012 Bump...
I hope someone received a Test Pair...and made a recording over the Holidays...
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2012 Bump...
I hope someone received a Test Pair...and made a recording over the Holidays...
They work awesome
I love them so much
Whoops it's 1/1 not 4/1 :P
Happy new yr, looking forward to lot of good info soon on te project
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2012 Bump...
I hope someone received a Test Pair...and made a recording over the Holidays...
They work awesome
I love them so much
Whoops it's 1/1 not 4/1 :P
Happy new yr, looking forward to lot of good info soon on te project
Eagerly awaiting a sample...
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2012 Bump...
I hope someone received a Test Pair...and made a recording over the Holidays...
They work awesome
I love them so much
Whoops it's 1/1 not 4/1 :P
Happy new yr, looking forward to lot of good info soon on te project
Eagerly awaiting a sample...
Me too. If you want actives so bad, go Busman/Milab/Neumann/MBHO/Schoeps ;)
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bean, we are patiently waiting for one very good reason. Price. This rig will cost 1/3 of your schoeps rig and sound just as good. :o ;D :P ;)
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bean, we are patiently waiting for one very good reason. Price. This rig will cost 1/3 of your schoeps rig and sound just as good. :o ;D :P ;)
especially if you already have the caps and like that sound signature.
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bean, we are patiently waiting for one very good reason. Price. This rig will cost 1/3 of your schoeps rig and sound just as good. :o ;D :P ;)
Delusions of grandeur...
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bean, we are patiently waiting for one very good reason. Price. This rig will cost 1/3 of your schoeps rig and sound just as good. :o ;D :P ;)
Delusions of grandeur...
For those with ears like mine, sounding as good as schoeps is a pretty low hurdle. :P
Now trying to best the sound of gefells or milabs -- well that is a worthy goal. :)
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bean, we are patiently waiting for one very good reason. Price. This rig will cost 1/3 of your schoeps rig and sound just as good. :o ;D :P ;)
Delusions of grandeur...
For those with ears like mine, sounding as good as schoeps is a pretty low hurdle. :P
Now trying to best the sound of gefells or milabs -- well that is a worthy goal. :)
Let me get you the info for a good audiologist. ;)
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This rig will cost 1/3 of your schoeps rig and sound just as good. :o ;D :P ;)
That's like saying the sound of a couple of skeletons banging on a tin roof will improve if they use a condom.
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bean, we are patiently waiting for one very good reason. Price. This rig will cost 1/3 of your schoeps rig and sound just as good. :o ;D :P ;)
Delusions of grandeur...
For those with ears like mine, sounding as good as schoeps is a pretty low hurdle. :P
Now trying to best the sound of gefells or milabs -- well that is a worthy goal. :)
Let me get you the info for a good audiologist. ;)
This rig will cost 1/3 of your schoeps rig and sound just as good. :o ;D :P ;)
That's like saying the sound of a couple of skeletons banging on a tin roof will improve if they use a condom.
;D 8)
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This rig will cost 1/3 of your schoeps rig and sound just as good. :o ;D :P ;)
That's like saying the sound of a couple of skeletons banging on a tin roof will improve if they use a condom.
:D
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YOUR FAVORITE GEAR SUXX
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So, does anyone actually have the prototype gear yet and have they taped with it?
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So, does anyone actually have the prototype gear yet and have they taped with it?
Doubtful :P
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Someone will be getting a Christmas present. I will need to tweak the drawing on the couplings, I guess I had made some changes on my prototype that never made it back to the drawing, but the thread hole needs to be about 3mm deeper (just the drill, not the tap), and the whole package can probably be a couple mm shorter.
It would appear the project has made some headway....
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Jp-W4F1s9_U/TQLlvjsxaMI/AAAAAAAAABQ/5_qTdOwpkZk/s1600/twiddling.jpg)
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oh hai. What's shakin'?
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(http://i360.photobucket.com/albums/oo50/dactylus2010/GefellActives2.jpg)
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Nice looking pooch....
Dang...Is that all the snow St Paul has accumulated this winter...
;D
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I see leaves on those trees!
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what's up with the no turning back sign?
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I see leaves on those trees!
^
We have NOT had Winter in Minnesota this year. Totally bizarre, but not unpleasant...
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I see leaves on those trees!
^
We have NOT had Winter in Minnesota this year. Totally bizarre, but not unpleasant...
Nor in Southwestern PA. Weird for sure!
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if i had a set of akg or mbho's or gefell caps and wanted a active set up bad, i would take the caps to a local machine shop or even a high school vo-tech class. give them some pictures and ideas and have them draw something up. pass that along to jon naiant to see if its workable. he already said it shouldnt be a prob to power any of them. i cant see a slow machine shop or high school seniors project charging all that much. dont wait for anyone else, get out and check a place out. what the worse that can happen? they say no? big deal. move on to the next guy. step up! ed
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ero3030...As far As I know...
TS has machined and sent a test pair of Colettes to Jon N. teh ball is in his court...there are some adjustments for final production but nothing that would stop testing as far as I know...Preamp Sales are brisk I guess and testing is moving slowly...until there is a approved Prototype Jon will not sell the unit....
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Gefell actives are actively happening :D
We've been waiting for years, and I got tired of waiting. I have a few PCB prototypes I am working on.
The same PCBs will work with AKG.
If someone has some AKG caps they aren't using and would like to loan, that would help move things along on that front.
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ero3030...As far As I know...
TS has machined and sent a test pair of Colettes to Jon N. teh ball is in his court...there are some adjustments for final production but nothing that would stop testing as far as I know...Preamp Sales are brisk I guess and testing is moving slowly...until there is a approved Prototype Jon will not sell the unit....
Gefell actives are actively happening :D
We've been waiting for years, and I got tired of waiting. I have a few PCB prototypes I am working on.
The same PCBs will work with AKG.
If someone has some AKG caps they aren't using and would like to loan, that would help move things along on that front.
^^^^^very good to hear on both ends. deff tuff getting a new product off and running, esp when there is a few parties involved. glad to hear peeps r still on it!!! ed
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Gefell actives are actively happening :D
We've been waiting for years, and I got tired of waiting. I have a few PCB prototypes I am working on.
The same PCBs will work with AKG.
If someone has some AKG caps they aren't using and would like to loan, that would help move things along on that front.
Thanks for the update Brian. :cheers:
Jon are you still working on the AKG/Gefell PCB for the actives with the machined colettes or has the TB 2.0 preamp development portion of your business taken up all of your "actives development" time?
I am still 100% committed to purchasing 2-3 sets of Gefell actives once the device has been tested and is marketed!!!!!!!!
thanks guys for all of your hard work. I certainly appreciate it.
David Lawrence
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Holy crap, I just realized that David Lawrence who I used to trade analog tapes with is dactylus! /mind blown/
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And I'm still in for the gefell active setup.....we could probably pool together for good pricing with a big group buy on caps.
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From the Little Box Retail Thread....
any update on the "active" setup for the gefells and / or the akg ck 60 series. I am definitely interested in this setup along with a little box when ready. Thanks, Mike
I did see the prices with the cables and materials a while ago just wondering if they are ready for sale to the public. I could definitely field test them if you need someone to run them out
If there were three or four of me perhaps the actives would be done, but . . .
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Yeah, you guys are just buying too many tinyboxes... lol... As much as I want the AKG actives thing to progress, I am also very happy to see that Jon has so many orders coming in for pre-amps. :coolguy:
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Yeah, you guys are just buying too many tinyboxes... lol... As much as I want the AKG actives thing to progress, I am also very happy to see that Jon has so many orders coming in for pre-amps. :coolguy:
Thats how I look at it. There isn't any spare cash in my hands for gefell caps or tinyboxes right now, so yeah it sort of sucks that it's not available for the rest of you, but I'm no worse for wear.
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The new tinybox looks really awesome. I had been watching the littlebox dev, and planning to get one when it matured and 60v power was available, etc. I thought I could order one at any time... And then, poof! Littleboxes were history. But now the new tinybox really has evolved to fill that void in most ways. There is this other unsolved problem of how many preamps I can/should reasonably own...
So if Jon is working on tinyboxes, that's just fine because I am full speed ahead working on PCBs and collettes for Gefell and for AKG :)
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I am full speed ahead working on PCBs and collettes for Gefell and for AKG :)
:coolguy:
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I am full speed ahead working on PCBs and collettes for Gefell and for AKG :)
:coolguy:
That reminds me - I have AKG's on the way for testing! ;)
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I should have a lull next week waiting for tbox v2 PCBs to arrive . . . so don't lose hope!
(http://www.boardofthebored.com/BoB/images/smilies/woohoo.gif)(http://www.boardofthebored.com/BoB/images/smilies/whoah.gif)(http://www.boardofthebored.com/BoB/images/smilies/snoopy.gif)(http://www.boardofthebored.com/BoB/images/smilies/whoah.gif)(http://www.boardofthebored.com/BoB/images/smilies/woohoo.gif)
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I should have a lull next week waiting for tbox v2 PCBs to arrive . . . so don't lose hope!
my tbv2 can wait if you work on akg active instead ;)
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I should have a lull next week waiting for tbox v2 PCBs to arrive . . . so don't lose hope!
my tbv2 can wait if you work on akg active instead ;)
^^
Now, that's a real AKG active's enthusiast!