Topic: How to get the most out of your AT 853s?

[nicegrin]

Hi fellow tapers!

I just wonder what the best way is to set up your AT 853s cards with an edirol r09. There seem to be a few different ways.
If you want your AT853s to perform at their very best given that you record loud rock, which one of these setups is the best? (in terms of good bass response, good SPL handling etc.) Is there really a difference at all and if so could any wizard at the board please explain why?

1. AT853s 3 wired with a 3 wired 9V Battery box -> Edirol R09

2. At 853s 3 wired + phantom adapters + Denecke PS-2 (or similar unit) -> Edirol R09

3. At 853s 2 wired with 4.7 resistor mod + 9v battery box -> Edirol R09

Any other option to concider that would be even better than the best one above?

Thanks!

Nicegrin

[Javier Cinakowski]

1. AT853s 3 wired with a 3 wired 9V Battery box -> Edirol R09
3 wire will give you locking connectors, though a slightly larger setup compared to 1/8" 2-wire.
2. At 853s 3 wired + phantom adapters + Denecke PS-2 (or similar unit) -> Edirol R09
I see no advantage to this option. 
3. At 853s 2 wired with 4.7 resistor mod + 9v battery box -> Edirol R09
If size is a concern, this is a fantastic option.

[Sunday Driver]

Well, the Denecke PS-2 has a very low noise floor. It's certainly lower than any point to point wired "three wire battery box" out there. Also, having the phantom adapters will give you the option to upgrade to a phantom powered preamp later on.

[Javier Cinakowski]

Well, the Denecke PS-2 has a very low noise floor. It's certainly lower than any point to point wired "three wire battery box" out there. Also, having the phantom adapters will give you the option to upgrade to a phantom powered preamp later on.

Yeah, a low noise floor and lots of gain(preamp) are important for "loud rock."   




 

[nicegrin]

is there any difference in bass response or distortion levels given the 3 setups in my original post?

thanks

[Sunday Driver]

is there any difference in bass response or distortion levels given the 3 setups in my original post?

thanks

You really have to listen to several samples of each and see what sounds best to you. I have, and I personally think nothing is more clear than the sound of the PS-2. In terms of SPL handling specs, no matter which mod you choose, the results are all about the same.

[jeromejello]

option 2 is the best imo.

you get the adapters to run other pres which is the main benefit - and should be the real goal...

plus, i have not really heard a benefit from either the 3 wire or 4.7 mod versions.  I believe both mods lower the dB of the mics (at least the 3 wire does for sure), which require more gain from the recorder - which is never an ideal situation.

fwiw - i have run my at853s into a ps2, sd mp2, regular and 3 wire battery box.

[Church-Audio]

option 2 is the best imo.

you get the adapters to run other pres which is the main benefit - and should be the real goal...

plus, i have not really heard a benefit from either the 3 wire or 4.7 mod versions.  I believe both mods lower the dB of the mics (at least the 3 wire does for sure), which require more gain from the recorder - which is never an ideal situation.

fwiw - i have run my at853s into a ps2, sd mp2, regular and 3 wire battery box.

Running the mics via the adaptor is three wire and you do lose level with that method as well, but in some of the adaptors there is a buffer amp that gives a 12 db boost to correct for the loss. For this reason if you plan to only stealth and you want to run three wire because of the locking connectors then my 9100 is a good choice. But if you want to run bigger mics and do open and stealth getting adaptors and a full size preamp is a good choice.

[Javier Cinakowski]

phantom adapters and preamps? Could someone explain the point, esspecially for "loud rock"

1st, 853's run 3-wire into a battery box is a shorter signal chain compaired to a phantom adapters and preamps, which will do nothing for you in a "loud rock" situation.  I don't see where phantom adapters have any advantage over a 3-wire battery box. 
Chris has a good point, even though a preamp is pointless for "loud rock" his 9100 is still smaller than a phantom adapter and phantom supply, and more functional.  Additionally there have been some recent threads showing the performance of the at/nady phantom adapters are not as clean as we first expected.  Some folks are finding much better results with nainants PFA adapter.

Also, the only folks I ever see suggest that the phantom adapters->ps2 is the best way to run AT's are people that currently run them.  I rarely see someone who has owned all setups (phantom adapter, 3-wire, 2-wire) chose phantom adapter.

I could see an argument for phantom adapter vs 1/8", but not phantom adapter vs 3-wire battery box.  The only purpose of the phantom adapter was for AT to provide a industry standard balanced solution for long cable runs over choirs.  We don't need long balanced cable runs and either of the phantomless options will perform just as well (if not better) for our type of field recording.

If you want large phantom powered preamps and shinny lights, get a pair of SDCs or LDCs.  If you want small and unobtrusive, get an 1/8" 4.7k setup.

If you are totally set on using 853's with a phantom rig, get a a pair of U873Rs and run them like a normal mic, they will out perform any of the options outlined above...

[su6oxone]

1. AT853s 3 wired with a 3 wired 9V Battery box -> Edirol R09

2. At 853s 3 wired + phantom adapters + Denecke PS-2 (or similar unit) -> Edirol R09

3. At 853s 2 wired with 4.7 resistor mod + 9v battery box -> Edirol R09

I would go with option #3 for convenience, as long as you are mostly taping loudish rock shows.

edit: this is a NMAS show I taped with the AT853 w/4.7k mod going into the 9100 and R-09.

http://www.archive.org/details/nmas2008-05-18.at853.flac16

[jeromejello]

Also, the only folks I ever see suggest that the phantom adapters->ps2 is the best way to run AT's are people that currently run them.  I rarely see someone who has owned all setups (phantom adapter, 3-wire, 2-wire) chose phantom adapter.

as i mentioned above, i have run all 3 setups and i prefer the phantom powered versions.  the primary reason (aside from increased flexibility in what you can run behind it) is the ability to add clean gain.

most battery boxes have to rely on the recorder to add gain and that is not always the best way to go.  that said, i have a battery box that i can use to run directly into a recorder if necessary.  although in stealth situations, a small preamp is not much different than a battery box - its still another box to stash.  the last time i even considered using my battery box (but still went with a p48 solution) was 3 years ago - its mostly for sentimental reasons that i hold on to it.

 

[ashevillain]

Also, the only folks I ever see suggest that the phantom adapters->ps2 is the best way to run AT's are people that currently run them.  I rarely see someone who has owned all setups (phantom adapter, 3-wire, 2-wire) chose phantom adapter.

I haven't owned all 3 of those setups but have heard enough of them to know that my preference lies with my current setup: AT853C/H/O/SC > Samson PM4 > SD MP-2 > R-09HR @ 24/96 (all cables are silvers other than the AT cable attached to the mics). I really like this setup...I don't think I've ever heard 853's sound better. A different preamp might add a different flavor but I can't see it getting much better.

If you are totally set on using 853's with a phantom rig, get a a pair of U873Rs and run them like a normal mic, they will out perform any of the options outlined above...

Doubt that...I'd be willing to bet the circuitry in the U873 is very similar to most common phantom adapters. That being said...I've got a pair that I bought used in the YS and I never have used...would be willing to offer them up for the price I paid, $60, if anyone wants them.

[TNJazz]

For some reason I thought the answer was "put them on Ebay"...

[Sunday Driver]

For some reason I thought the answer was "put them on Ebay"...

  If you have something against the mics, why would you even click on the the thread?...nevermind going through the process of posting a trolling remark...

[taperwheeler]

I have had a pair of the 933 bodies, 853 caps that I ran for many years 2 wire.  Never very happy with reults.  Had the 4.7k mod done and now very pleased.  I would advise to have the mod if you go 2 wire.