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Author Topic: AKG Active Project part 4  (Read 75525 times)

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Offline Todd R

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Re: AKG Active Project part 4
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2011, 12:12:33 PM »
I won't be using 1804a for a few reasons: the nanocons are really small and I don't think it would easily fit.  Also, there is no advantage to star quad for a cable run that isn't balanced because there is no common-mode rejection.  It would actually be worse because the capacitance of star quad is higher than regular cable, and the connection between coupling and PFA is still relatively high-impedance--I can lower the impedance (that is actually set by the PFA/amp), but that will lower gain.  At higher gain, 10ft would be the limit; lower gains could probably support up to 30ft although it's still an unbalanced connection, so interference can also start to become a problem.  That is with Mogami 2697.

I could avoid those problems with a 4-wire connection, but that would exclude the nanocon.  I would have to make the coupling larger to support a 4-pin mini-XLR; then I would use 1804a, but not wired as star quad.

I'm not sure it is possible to move away from the nanocons (may already be in the process of getting the collettes milled or whatever), but if it isn't too late in the design phase, I'd say it is more important to get a good circuit developed and provide better performance.  It sounds from what you're saying that a 4-wire operation would yield better performance, or at least longer unbalanced cable length.

For my own use with "active" cables, I sometimes use them for low profile recording, and in these cases 10ft length is fine.  I also use the active cables for regular taper section recording, and in this case 10ft is about the minimum length.  That is the length of my milab actives (3m), and I often wish I had just a couple more feet available (esp if I am clamping onto someone else's stand and can't get my bag right under the stand).

Not that any of this can't be worked around, but the nanocons sound like they limit performance somewhat, and they are pretty thin -- which sounds like they might be more fragile and you've stated it probably wouldn't be good to use them to connect to a mic t-bar. All that said, the Binder 711's seem nice too.  If you consider the total length of cable-end connector plus active-head connector, they aren't much difference in length than the nanocon combo, and I don't think diameter is much of an issue.  A trade-off perhaps in outer connector length vs connector length inside the active head, but either way I think the total length is comparable.

The Binder connectors might also be more conducive to using in a kwon-bar (delrin rod) type set up for connecting and shockmounting the caps.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: AKG Active Project part 4
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2011, 12:31:29 PM »
I also use the active cables for regular taper section recording, and in this case 10ft is about the minimum length.

Fwiw, when I run actives on a stand, it is KC5's with cmc6 bodies.  So it was easy to velcro my bodies to the stand pole, or even up on the ceiling.  That's actually an advantage of body-actives vs. "box" actives.  And if the active "driver" box is also the preamp, I want to be able to tweak the gain.

Quote
The Binder connectors might also be more conducive to using in a kwon-bar (delrin rod) type set up for connecting and shockmounting the caps.

From what I see in the data sheets, the nanocons are secured with a tiny snap clip, which Jon suggests may not be super rugged (I agree).  But the binders have a collar that threads on the connector.  It seems like the latter could be pretty strong.

It doesn't matter to me - I have a great solution for the "kwon bar" setup that will work fine with the nanocons, and is an improvement over the absurdly overpriced status quo.

Offline willndmb

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Re: AKG Active Project part 4
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2011, 02:16:55 PM »
absurdly overpriced status quo.
i still don't understand why all these set ups are so costly
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline hi and lo

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Re: AKG Active Project part 4
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2011, 02:39:33 PM »
absurdly overpriced status quo.
i still don't understand why all these set ups are so costly

What? Kwon/Nola bars??? As a matter of opinion, I hardly think they're expensive and a great solution at a reasonable price. Hopefully we're talking about the same thing.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 02:42:40 PM by hi and lo »

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: AKG Active Project part 4
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2011, 02:54:03 PM »
absurdly overpriced status quo.
i still don't understand why all these set ups are so costly

What? Kwon/Nola bars??? As a matter of opinion, I hardly think they're expensive and a great solution at a reasonable price. Hopefully we're talking about the same thing.

I machine my own.  The material costs about a dollar per bar in small quantities.  How much profit per bar is reasonable?  I guess the answer is - whatever you can get.  But $75 for a trivial chunk of plastic?  Snort.

Offline hi and lo

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Re: AKG Active Project part 4
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2011, 03:12:00 PM »

I machine my own.  The material costs about a dollar per bar in small quantities.  How much profit per bar is reasonable?  I guess the answer is - whatever you can get.  But $75 for a trivial chunk of plastic?  Snort.

What's it cost to have them machined though (and prototyped)? Very cool that you can machine your own... perhaps you could become a competitor! I certainly need a few more bars.

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: AKG Active Project part 4
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2011, 09:18:45 PM »
There really doesn't need to be any circuit difference per se, single-diaphragm externally biased capsules are pretty much all the same.

The difficulty for me stems from the difference between the single pin + ground Gefell vs. the reference designs I am looking at - the schoeps and akg 460b - which are two pin designs, signal on the center and polarization on the outer ring.  Does the Gefell send the polarization via the ground?  I need to get a high impedance DVM.

Quote
However, mechanically those multi-ring connectors are a pain.  They trade mechanical complexity for circuit complexity.

They are a pain, but they are durable and well made.

Offline Hypnocracy

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Re: AKG Active Project part 4
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2011, 06:48:19 AM »
For those of us not keeping tabs on the Retail section, Jon has some good news.

Quote
Next week will see some development on the AKG front:  yet another PCB revision that will support 3-wire (unbalanced) or 4-wire (balanced or unbalanced) interconnection, and I'll mill the prototype couplings which can support either Binder 711 or Neutrik nanocons (which happily use the same hole size).

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145217.0

With the addtion of Binder 711 clips, is it time to check on feasibility of Delrin Nola type stereo bars?
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Offline willndmb

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Re: AKG Active Project part 4
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2011, 08:20:39 AM »
For those of us not keeping tabs on the Retail section, Jon has some good news.

Quote
Next week will see some development on the AKG front:  yet another PCB revision that will support 3-wire (unbalanced) or 4-wire (balanced or unbalanced) interconnection, and I'll mill the prototype couplings which can support either Binder 711 or Neutrik nanocons (which happily use the same hole size).

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145217.0

With the addtion of Binder 711 clips, is it time to check on feasibility of Delrin Nola type stereo bars?
can someone please explain the benefits of one connector over the other and how 3 vs 4 wire is different in taping for idiots terms
thanks
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline leehookem

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Re: AKG Active Project part 4
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2011, 09:53:11 AM »
schweeeet!
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AKG c480b ck61/ck63 > Tascam DR-70D
Oade ACM Marantz PMD-671
AKG ck61/63 > NBob Actives > Naiant PFA > Tascam DR-70D
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Offline Hypnocracy

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Re: AKG Active Project part 4
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2011, 10:43:19 AM »
For those of us not keeping tabs on the Retail section, Jon has some good news.

Quote
Next week will see some development on the AKG front:  yet another PCB revision that will support 3-wire (unbalanced) or 4-wire (balanced or unbalanced) interconnection, and I'll mill the prototype couplings which can support either Binder 711 or Neutrik nanocons (which happily use the same hole size).

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145217.0

With the addtion of Binder 711 clips, is it time to check on feasibility of Delrin Nola type stereo bars?
can someone please explain the benefits of one connector over the other and how 3 vs 4 wire is different in taping for idiots terms
thanks
 

If I have followed along correctly...The Nanocons have a small push button to clip in and out (some what like a XLR) but may not be as secure when using as a mount point. Binder 711's appear to be threaded and screw the connector and the Collette together should be sturdier and Hopefully used as a connection to Delrin stereo bars.
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Offline Chuck

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Re: AKG Active Project part 4
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2011, 10:59:07 AM »
If I have followed along correctly...The Nanocons have a small push button to clip in and out (some what like a XLR) but may not be as secure when using as a mount point. Binder 711's appear to be threaded and screw the connector and the Collette together should be sturdier and Hopefully used as a connection to Delrin stereo bars.

... and the Binders look a little less long too. But, it's hard to tell without a photo of them side by side.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, Sennheiser MKE 2 elements,  Audix M1290-o, Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, Naiant MSH-1O, Naiant AKG Active cables, Church CA-11 (cardioid), (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlebox, Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
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Offline EarlyMorningRain

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Re: AKG Active Project part 4
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2011, 12:34:46 PM »
Dropping in to mark the thread.



I machine my own.  The material costs about a dollar per bar in small quantities.
are you in the business to make more? And what caps do you have that you are your making your own bar for? Or do they work for multiple caps?

Offline willndmb

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Re: AKG Active Project part 4
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2011, 01:23:56 PM »
thanks hypno and jon
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline johnw

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Re: AKG Active Project part 4
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2011, 02:57:41 PM »
It doesn't matter to me - I have a great solution for the "kwon bar" setup that will work fine with the nanocons, and is an improvement over the absurdly overpriced status quo.

If you have a picture of your Delrin bar setup that works with the nanocons, I'd like to see it.

I have Delrin bars that are threaded for 3/8" at one end and can be screwed together so that all that is needed is a mic clip on each end. But then the angle is variable and one of the nice things about the Kwon bars is that once the capsules are in the bars, the pattern is locked in. Plus they are idiot proof and practically indestructible.

I'm sure there is a good profit margin since as you say the Delrin bars are really cheap. A long time ago, I tried making one with a handsaw/jig saw and a drill, but the results were pretty comical. Most people don't have the tools to make the necessary cuts at the exact angle needed or bore out a space of the exact diameter and at the correct angle to hold the collar. And that's after figuring out the correct geometry for the various capsules and intended patterns. If someone makes a cheaper bar that is precise as those made by Robert Kwon, I'd happily buy it, but so far only one person has done that. And the alternatives are cheaper than the OEM Schoeps options.
Schoeps MK41 & MK4V  |  Schoeps CMC6, Schoeps KCY, AKI/2C, PFA, Nbox Cable/PFA  |  Grace V2, Nbox Platinum  |  SD744T, SD MixPre 6, Sony PCM M10

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