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Author Topic: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2  (Read 81315 times)

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Offline heathen

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2018, 10:41:39 AM »
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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2018, 01:54:58 PM »
Here are a couple of samples:


Bach BWV-1054 Concerto for Keyboard w/ open lid - mp3 partial
https://soundcloud.com/user-271082364/deccaboundarybaffledlayer-sample
Genesis - Its Gonna Be Better - mp3 partial
https://soundcloud.com/user-271082364/deccaboundarybaffledlayer-sample2

The piano is bright!  I went into this knowing that was going to be a possible problem.  It worked out better than I thought, and I'm quite happy wit the result; but, the piano is a bit bright due to its proximity.
I listened to sample1 about 4 hours ago, now it seems sample 2 has been pulled. Hard to know your "bright" without a reference to your "dark" piano-wise, BUT I thin it sounds good overall tonally, separation of individual instrumentation seems right.
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mfrench

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2018, 02:01:59 PM »
I did a different sample of the same track on sample.2, and pulled the original. That should be a good link to the new sample, though.
The first sample built too slowly for a partial sample, so I grabbed a different take.

Bright,... maybe I should have said strong presence? You will not be left for want of piano.

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2018, 03:40:02 PM »
I did a different sample of the same track on sample.2, and pulled the original. That should be a good link to the new sample, though.
The first sample built too slowly for a partial sample, so I grabbed a different take.

Bright,... maybe I should have said strong presence? You will not be left for want of piano.
Yes, there IS piano!  :clapping:
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E|DPA 4060 SK
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI x2; Sony PCM-M10

mfrench

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2018, 11:41:35 PM »
And thats the softer, slower, Adagio portion of the concerto.
The rehearsal of the concerto had the lid closed.  Then, surprise, surprise,.. the show had the lid open for the concerto, and closed for the balance of the show, softening it considerably.

Today,... lid open for the whole show, with the open lid facing the audience.
I bagged the first row, right side seat, and we stored all of our gear on the left first row seat, as the piano was so close to that row, anyone sitting there woud have had there face stuffed full of piano.
So, I utilized the hardwood church pews as the boundary layer, rearward baffle, and i taped the foam rem pieces to the sides of the pews as side baffling.
It record, and eft the first row seats to a really nice couple that comes to the shows (all of them), and I went and sat in the rear side.

I somehow managed to run two complete sets of blank files with Gude and the R09HR. They soundchecked out just fine; I hit record, saw levels, and time rolling on record; walked away. I get home to find two 41 minute blank stereo files that weighed in about 2gb of blankness, totally flat-lined. Gremlins.

And,... more time logged in the shade of another D'Tree.

Conclusion of test firing:
Total potential for exploration.  I would very much like to do this again without the piano.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 02:26:33 PM by Moke »

mfrench

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2018, 12:08:46 AM »
OK,... I've worked with the gal that is the furthest to the left in the image above, #4441, for a couple of years now. Her name is Sarah O'Brien.
We've gotten along wonderfully. Always a really nice smile, and kind words.
I found out friday that she was the lead cellist for Yanni for 23 years, and leader of his orchestra.
They are together in this video segment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7ag2S7iLxk
I've always been amazed at her playing, but, never knew the background.
So, just today, I was asking her about that, and she said that she got her "in" with the Consort with Beth Folsom, the soprano violin player, who, was also with Yanni for a long long time.
I had no idea that I was so close to new ageyness.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2018, 03:15:09 PM »
Those samples sound quite good to me Mike.  I like the hefty sense of spatial width from the wide omnis as well as the detailed yet flattering perspective on the ensemble it provides.  Good "division of labor" amongst the three mics, avoiding phase interaction conflicts in the 2-channel mix-down.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #52 on: February 01, 2018, 04:19:01 PM »
Came across an AES paper which explores a setup quite similar to OMT in a number of ways.  I just started reading it at lunch today so I won't speculate too much or offer my opinion until I have a chance to fully digest it.  However, I wanted to share the link here as there are some obvious parallels with what I'm doing.  Generally, the idea of using spaced arrangements consisting of multiple coincident pairs to facilitate manipulation of the recording afterwards. More specifically, I immediately noticed similarities to my  idea of turning the 6-ch OMT side facing supercardioids into coincident Mid/Side arrangements as illustrated in the advanced section of the OMT booklet - modifications I want to experiment with next, using 8 channels total.  More on this later..

Technical content warning- This is AES paper type reading dealing with hall acoustics, surround recording and listening psychoacoustics.  No math, but some non-superficial technical acoustics type stuff.

It can be viewed or downloaded at the site below, which is where I found it upon browsing other papers from the University of Huddersfield Repository.  That page states:

"Download PDF:
Sorry, we are unable to provide the full text but you may find it at the following location(s):"

The links which follow are dead ends, however the full paper may be either viewed directly or downloaded as a PDF from the preview window found a bit further down around mid-page.

A New Multichannel Microphone Technique for Effective Perspective Control (by Hyunkook Lee)
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

mfrench

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2018, 10:08:47 PM »

Two channel stereo - Baffled Boundary Layer
result:
Quote from: cello player
Mike...the recording sounds amazing!!! Thank you so so much!!! I can't thank you enough...I was supposed to be practicing other music today, but I've just been sitting and listening to the recording. The balance is fantastic and the sound quality is wonderful!!! Others have recorded us in the past, but I want you to know that your recording is the best we have ever had.

referencing the DPA4060 pair taped to the brick wall, on either side of the post, below; Baffled Boundary Layer
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 09:44:48 AM by Moke »

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #54 on: February 14, 2018, 11:28:51 AM »
Right on. 

Liking how you used the column as a baffle between the boundary mounted 4060s taped to the wall.  That seems to me an excellent setup for that room.  If you are able to, it would be interesting to do the same using the opposing wall and center column behind the stage, high enough over the piano that you have a more-or-less direct line of sight to the strings.  You should be able to do that without much if any visual impact at all as long as you can set it up early so as to be out of the way of the performers.  That would get improved proximity to the sources and push the audience further back in the auditory perspective.  Only one way to know if that really works better or not.

Feels pretty good to get that kind of feedback from the musicians, no?
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #55 on: February 14, 2018, 01:19:37 PM »
Received special permission to record at Snarky Puppy's Ground Up festival last weekend, upon promising to keep the recordings private and provide them to the music label for audience-reaction and ambience in their potential live multitrack releases.  This is a fantastic musician-centric festival held in a small a park along the beach, quite intimate as it is capped at 2000 attendees per day.  Outstanding talent, heart and mindset by all involved- the musicians, the audio support crew, the festival organizers and staff and the attendees.  Got in with their recording engineer to provide him my files and hear his.  They were multitracking all performances and had up a pair of spaced omnis at the soundboards of both stages.  I moved my 6ch OMT rig back and forth between the two stages.

A few photos..  here's my setup at the smaller stage-

Last photo is the kicked-back hammock perspective of the rig and stage.  A nice spot to chill while keeping an eye on things.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 01:29:58 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #56 on: February 14, 2018, 01:27:22 PM »
A few of my setup at the main bandshell stage-

First photo is of my rig as viewed from below. Like at the other stage, the recording engineers spaced omnis are visible as well (Earthworks employed at this stage).
Second is from the recording position (Wood Brothers)
Third and fourth are is from the recording position (Snarky Puppy)
Last is the view out the window looking West from Miami Beach across Biscayne Bay towards the Miami skyline from the top floor of the hotel hosting the last-night shows.  Posting this one simply because I found it a cool photo with the reflected ballroom lights interposed against the sky.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 01:32:49 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #57 on: February 14, 2018, 01:29:18 PM »
Mike- +T great use of the wall/post. So awesome to get feedback like that!

Gut, great photos, I dig the one straight up  at the blue FL sky! (only a  bit upstate NY jealous!)
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E|DPA 4060 SK
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI x2; Sony PCM-M10

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #58 on: March 13, 2018, 08:32:07 AM »
People might want to check out this, done with a 4 channel OMT rig. 60cm spaced omnis, with a hyper as the mid in a m/s pair mixed mostly to mid:

16bit: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=598540
24bit: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=598541

Mike Gordon, Scott Murwaski, Robert Walter, John Kimock, Craig Myers

March 10, 2018
Brookln Steel, New York, NY

Location: SBD Cage, just R of Center
Source: Schoeps mk3 (60cm AB) + Schoeps mk41v/mk8 (m/s)> Nbob actives> Sound Devices mixpre6 (channels 1-4 @ 24bit 48 kHz)
Transfer: Mixpre6> Macbook Pro (via usb-c)> Reaper (DSP)> Sound Studio (Fades & Tracking)> xACT (Tagging and Flacing)
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, GAKables 10' & 20' 6-channel snakes, Darktrain 2 & 4 channel KCY and mini xlr extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6 I
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6 I, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mac Mini> Mytek Brooklyn+> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: iMac> Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #59 on: March 13, 2018, 10:00:25 AM »
Thanks Noah.  What are your thoughts about it?

BTW folks, as a point of comparison, Noah has also made available his 2-channel mk4 recording from the same show-

mk4v (25cm @ 70 degrees) :
16bit: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=598538
24bit: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=598538
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

 

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