Topic: Simple Nak cm300 Mod

[hexyjones]

So there is really no difference between "active" and "phantom" - electrically speaking...? I think in the case of the Naks - the body houses only the battery, switch and XLR...the preamp is in the head/capsule that holds either the omni or card elelment...compare that to other condensers that have the preamp in the mic body and only the element changes...harder to eliminate the body....

i also wondered that too about the mooded 300s.  they definately sound better after being run with phantom power. i don't know why they sound better, they just do, & it has to do with being powered by P48.  As for how much juice is actually going tothe mics, I think it's still 9 volts.  Here is a link to the mod.
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=24624.0
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=27307.0;all
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=31051.0

All the little mics (AT, DPA, SP) etc. are actives b/c they don't hve a body per se.  Some are powered via battery box & some by phantom.  Phantom power traditionally increases the dynamic range of the mic in question, & is able to handle louder shows without distorting. That is why phantom power is preferred in most cases.  As for how much actual voltage they are getting from the phantom power, I don't know for sure.
Tim

I re-read those and still seems unclear...he says at one point

looks like there's quite a bit of interest in the Franken-Naks.

pls. be advised that you will need to provide P48 to run these.

marc

and the schematic looks like the volage goes right to the FET - does that regulate the voltage before it gets to the capsule?

[tadjblack]

I think Marc uses those AT 48v>9v converters that are made for use with the at853rx microphones to regulate voltage

[hexyjones]

I think Marc uses those AT 48v>9v converters that are made for use with the at853rx microphones to regulate voltage

The quote about requiring P48v is from marc...Im getting more confused...

[tadjblack]

I think Marc uses those AT 48v>9v converters that are made for use with the at853rx microphones to regulate voltage

The quote about requiring P48v is from marc...Im getting more confused...

I think because he uses those AT converters to make the frankenaks that you have to feed the converters 48v

[hexyjones]

I think Marc uses those AT 48v>9v converters that are made for use with the at853rx microphones to regulate voltage

The quote about requiring P48v is from marc...Im getting more confused...

I think because he uses those AT converters to make the frankenaks that you have to feed the converters 48v

That's the idea I'm getting too...and it seems that the mic itself is not really running on phantom power...just the ATunit...

So - couldn't one just use regular old 9V batteries in place of the AT pack?...I know in the old days...some guys used to drill holes in their Nak bodies and wire up regular snap-on 9V batteries...the franken-nak seems to only by-pass the switch and low cut...?

[hexyjones]

marc modifies the capsule assembly & that's it.  the at8533x modules have to be used with them at all times, therefore they can only be powered by P48.

I dont get that...? Seems like all you need is something that makes 9V...in this case the at8533x...I dont see why any 9v source would wouldnt do...? I see the convience of the at8533  - to make use of existing phantom supplies...cool...but is that truly necessary to get the other benefits of this mod...?

[hexyjones]

I just re-read leegeddys original post - my confusion is stemming from not knowing what the AT8533 modules do.

he says:

i purchased Andy's (dwonk) CM300 pair last month and after few discussions with Audio Technica's tech about the specs of the AT8533 9-52v power modules,

I think the hyphen threw me...Ok - I get it...the leegeddy mod runs on 9V.

[hexyjones]

I just re-read leegeddys original post - my confusion is stemming from not knowing what the AT8533 modules do.
he says:
i purchased Andy's (dwonk) CM300 pair last month and after few discussions with Audio Technica's tech about the specs of the AT8533 9-52v power modules,
I think the hyphen threw me...Ok - I get it...the leegeddy mod runs on 9V.

the part that I don't understand is, why does the mod make the mics sound different?  is 9v of phantom power different than 9v of power from the battery?  it must be, but i don't understand how/why.
isn't 9 volts of power, just that? 9 volts of power ? 

Im not sure - but maybe its that the FET power and audio path are serperated...? If you use the bodies, there is only 2 signal paths...the battery and the mic body...the leeg mod has 3 rails...

[leegeddy]

hope this helps in answering few of your questions.

1.  the main purpose of the Franken-Naks is two fold:  1) drastically reduce the size for stealth applications and 2) run the naks on phantom power.
2.  Franken-Naks must be powered by phantom power (P9-P48) via an impedence transformer (eg. AT, Samson).  phantom power comes in various voltages (P48 being the most universal and popular).
3.  the system is "active" becase it separates the capsule assembly (cmX00 + cap) and the "body" (module.. eg. AT8533, etc.)

if you look at the schematic above for the pre-mod, you'll notice that BOTH the signal and the supply voltage is riding on the same conductor. (this is analogous to SP's powered mics via a mini plug. (2 conductors per mic)

now look at the schematic for the post-mod, you'll notice that the signal and the supply voltage are separated, hence....3 conductors. (this is analogus to AT853rx)

with that said, you can NOT run the Franken-Naks with a simple battery power. however, powering schemes like the new jklab's PP9 will work since it also runs on the 3 conductor scheme.

hope this helps;
marc

[hexyjones]

marc - what do the AT8533s do? What voltage goes out of them?

[charles]

Question Marc....could this be done in such a way that you still had male xlr at bottom of mic. Correct me if I'm wrong.....but your mod has a cable running straight in...correct?

[leegeddy]

marc - what do the AT8533s do? What voltage goes out of them?

they are essentially impedence transformers. they have a balanced output and an unbalanced input. i believe the AT tech told me that the supply voltage was close to 9v, but less

Question Marc....could this be done in such a way that you still had male xlr at bottom of mic. Correct me if I'm wrong.....but your mod has a cable running straight in...correct?

no. the body is no longer needed post mod.

so if the franken-naks are run with a ua5, which outputs P48, does that mean the mics are getting 48 volts of phantom? or does the AT modules shrink the voltage going to the mics, down to 9?

.

no, the supply voltage is slightly less than 9v.

marc

[hexyjones]

Could something like this be used in place of the Phantom Powered AT8533?

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-1

[leegeddy]

Could something like this be used in place of the Phantom Powered AT8533?

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-1

no. because of the reason stated above.... if you look at the schematic above for the pre-mod, you'll notice that BOTH the signal and the supply voltage is riding on the same conductor. (this is analogous to SP's powered mics via a mini plug. (2 conductors per mic)

marc

[hexyjones]

marc - thanks for entertaining all the nit pickly questions...

Another source of my confusion was the schematic - I was looking at the after-mod version as if that was an XLR  - and I would just hook it up, turn on the Phantom and everything would be hunky dory...now I see - the rest of the story is in the AT8533...

Question 2 - is there a transformer in the Nak body? - in the before-mod schematic - that spring-looking thing that connects to pin 2 and 3 - is that the stock transformer...?