Author Topic: Best mid level LOW LUX HD Sub $900 camcorder - ? (Read 16549 times)

ArchivalAudio · « **on:** November 07, 2010, 05:47:30 PM »

Ok so I'm looking for a small HD flash based Video camera - we now have a 3 month old boy
so mostly for "home movie" stuff - however I assume I'd also be using to shoot some bands in low light etc...
kind of considering these 3 cams

http://everio.jvc.com/lineup/gz-hm320/

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666073187#specifications

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Cameras-Camcorders/Camcorders/1-MOS-High-Def-Camcorders/model.HDC-TM55K.S_11002_7000000000000005702#tabsection

I am a Apple MAC user
so ease with macs and apple products is helpful

the carl ziess lens on the sony is also enticing
any recommendations
or reasons I should or should get any of these?

thanx
--Ian

edit: thread title

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #1 on:** November 08, 2010, 04:11:15 AM »

any ideas or suggestions?

beatkilla · « **Reply #2 on:** November 08, 2010, 01:58:46 PM »

For indoor shots which are low light and for concerts none of those will perform very well.Bright outdoor shots will be fine.The sensor size is what matters and they are all 1/4 inch.You need 1/3 or 1/2 inch for better low light.Look on ebay for a used sony cx500 or sony cx520.That is my opinion from experience with the sonys.I would never buy a video camera with a sensor that is 1/4inch 1/6 or 1/8/inch.

rastasean · « **Reply #3 on:** November 08, 2010, 10:13:10 PM »

I would prefer if the camera had a viewfinder. since you're mostly doing in/around the house filming with your baby and filming it may not be as important but its something that should be considered.

another important factor for me is mic input. I prefer videos to sound just as clear and good as tapes, so if the audio on a video sucks (most likely) I won't watch it.

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #4 on:** November 08, 2010, 11:12:18 PM »

Quote from: rastasean on November 08, 2010, 10:13:10 PM

I would prefer if the camera had a viewfinder. since you're mostly doing in/around the house filming with your baby and filming it may not be as important but its something that should be considered.

another important factor for me is mic input. I prefer videos to sound just as clear and good as tapes, so if the audio on a video sucks (most likely) I won't watch it.

good points
Mic input for me could be good
though I can sync audio later.
the viewfinder is less useful for me as I wear glasses and in general they don't work well for me, + it's harder to "shoot from the hip"
thanx
--Ian

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #5 on:** November 08, 2010, 11:15:02 PM »

Quote from: beatkilla on November 08, 2010, 01:58:46 PM

For indoor shots which are low light and for concerts none of those will perform very well.Bright outdoor shots will be fine.The sensor size is what matters and they are all 1/4 inch.You need 1/3 or 1/2 inch for better low light.Look on ebay for a used sony cx500 or sony cx520.That is my opinion from experience with the sonys.I would never buy a video camera with a sensor that is 1/4inch 1/6 or 1/8/inch.

interesting
thank you
I in no way can spend 1400 for a cam
$400 to $600 max
less would be better
the JVC
claims good low lux
http://everio.jvc.com/feature/feature_02.html

Quote

Low light performance is one of the key factors for quality video. New Everio's Super LoLux ensures superior sensitivity to low light. To provide this, High Definition models (selected) are equipped with a Back-illuminated CMOS sensor that allows intake of more light while Standard Definition models offer a large 1/6" high-sensitivity CCD. The result is clear images with precise colors even in low light. No worry while indoors or in dark situations.

but who knows in real world applications?
I don't seen and sensors that are the size you state in the sub $1000 range... anyone with other suggestions?
thanx
--Ian

beatkilla · « **Reply #6 on:** November 09, 2010, 08:04:44 AM »

Id also look at the Canon cams as well.Just get a cheap video light to add to whatever one you choose.I would watch the prices on BHphotovideo as around this time of year the prices can drop pretty low .

beatkilla · « **Reply #7 on:** November 09, 2010, 06:55:59 PM »

The Canon vixia hf21 looks like a good buy.64gb internal memory,can add sdhc card,does 24p,has mic terminal and headphone,audio meter and manual audio adjustment. And its just within your budget.

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #8 on:** November 10, 2010, 02:31:44 PM »

Quote from: beatkilla on November 09, 2010, 06:55:59 PM

The Canon vixia hf21 looks like a good buy.64gb internal memory,can add sdhc card,does 24p,has mic terminal and headphone,audio meter and manual audio adjustment. And its just within your budget.

thanx
interesting
I know canon makes excellent video cams too - both the cams you have + suggested have been PAL cameras in the US I believe I can only easily use NTSC cameras

this one is more in my budget
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-HF-M31-Memory-Camcorder/dp/B00322OP4K/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1289281656&sr=1-3

or this JVC - with a larger sensor back lit low lux
http://www.amazon.com/JVC-GZ-HM550-High-Definition-Camcorder/dp/B0032FPYHY
http://everio.jvc.com/lineup/gz-hm550/

hoping to spend less than $600
but we weill have to see
--Ian

beatkilla · « **Reply #9 on:** November 10, 2010, 07:23:10 PM »

If it were me i would get the canon over the jvc that you linked. The canon is f1.8 and the jvc is f2.8 also jvc is notorious for having dead pixels.

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #10 on:** November 11, 2010, 01:22:13 AM »

Quote from: beatkilla on November 10, 2010, 07:23:10 PM

If it were me i would get the canon over the jvc that you linked. The canon is f1.8 and the jvc is f2.8 also jvc is notorious for having dead pixels.

Ahh - really JVC dead pixels? where can one find this info?

maybe I should re title the thread to best Low Lux HD cam in the Sub $1000 range?

I generally would go for canon over JVC myself too.

thanx
--Ian

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #11 on:** November 11, 2010, 01:26:15 AM »

I see you state this:

Quote from: beatkilla on November 02, 2010, 02:00:10 PM

I have the 550v and two 500s. Amazing cams. Just make sure to manually set your exposure.

and these two look nice but a bit over my range:

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-HDR-CX550V-Definition-Handycam-Camcorder/dp/B0031RGL1G/ref=dp_ob_title_ce
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-HDR-CX520V-Flash-Definition-Camcorder/dp/B002NR7CYU

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #12 on:** November 11, 2010, 02:43:17 AM »

or:
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/consumer_camcorders/vixia_hf_m31#Specifications ?

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #13 on:** November 11, 2010, 02:45:03 AM »

or:
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HDC-SD600K-High-Def-Camcorder-Wide-Angle/dp/B003QHXZTC/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1EA176CQKZY0&colid=3KG9B3IHZ05QD

beatkilla · « **Reply #14 on:** November 11, 2010, 12:37:57 PM »

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/671655-REG/Canon_4394B001_VIXIA_HF_R100_Flash.html

Add to cart $279.Mic in and headphone can't beat this for the price.Do you want to spend more?This camera has no built in memory so sdhc cards are necessary and for HD video you need Class 6.I use these ones without any issues.Don't forget a large capacity battery.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/590176-REG/Fujifilm_600007622.html

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #15 on:** November 11, 2010, 01:35:38 PM »

bump for thread title change:

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #16 on:** November 11, 2010, 01:38:18 PM »

Quote from: beatkilla on November 11, 2010, 12:37:57 PM

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/671655-REG/Canon_4394B001_VIXIA_HF_R100_Flash.html

Add to cart $279.Mic in and headphone can't beat this for the price.Do you want to spend more?This camera has no built in memory so sdhc cards are necessary and for HD video you need Class 6.I use these ones without any issues.Don't forget a large capacity battery.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/590176-REG/Fujifilm_600007622.html

that's great!
I'll need to research on this for Low Lux capabilities
thanx
--Ian

beatkilla · « **Reply #17 on:** November 11, 2010, 02:11:36 PM »

I don't know if you ever have owned any video cameras but honestly NONE can see anywhere as good as the human eye in low light so you may very well be dissapointed with any video camera.Since you are looking to mostly capture outstanding memories of your child and have changed your budget i would also seriously consider a HD DSLR instead.Why?Because you can shoot immaculate hi-res photos of your family AND record outstanding lowlight video.Canon t2i with 18-55mm kit lens for $849.Add a canon ef f1.8 for $99 more dollars and your a very lucky man!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/675618-REG/Canon_4462B003_EOS_Rebel_T2i_Digital.html

fguidry · « **Reply #18 on:** November 13, 2010, 12:21:00 AM »

As I understand it, the killer consumer camcorder this year is the Panasonic TM700. It's getting a lot of positive press for its low light capability (fast lens) and great image quality. Full manual controls, etc. etc. Currently $795 at B&H.

Fran

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #19 on:** November 13, 2010, 01:46:30 AM »

Quote from: fguidry on November 13, 2010, 12:21:00 AM

As I understand it, the killer consumer camcorder this year is the Panasonic TM700. It's getting a lot of positive press for its low light capability (fast lens) and great image quality. Full manual controls, etc. etc. Currently $795 at B&H.

Fran

yes this seems top be a super nice 3 CMOS cam
here at amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HDC-TM700K-Hi-Def-Camcorder-Control/dp/tech-data/B0035LD0EY/ref=de_a_smtd
for $749.95

it seems like the HDC-SD600K
has no built in memory, and may be an older version:
here: http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HDC-SD600K-High-Def-Camcorder-Wide-Angle/dp/B003QHXZTC/ref=dp_return_2?ie=UTF8&n=502394&s=photo

thanx
--Ian

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #20 on:** November 13, 2010, 01:54:16 AM »

Quote from: beatkilla on November 11, 2010, 02:11:36 PM

I don't know if you ever have owned any video cameras but honestly NONE can see anywhere as good as the human eye in low light so you may very well be dissapointed with any video camera.Since you are looking to mostly capture outstanding memories of your child and have changed your budget i would also seriously consider a HD DSLR instead.Why?Because you can shoot immaculate hi-res photos of your family AND record outstanding lowlight video.Canon t2i with 18-55mm kit lens for $849.Add a canon ef f1.8 for $99 more dollars and your a very lucky man!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/675618-REG/Canon_4462B003_EOS_Rebel_T2i_Digital.html

nice deal...
I am kinda a Nikon fan but when I look at the D90 it's still over 1G with a lens http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-D90-DX-Format-18-105mm-3-5-5-6G/dp/B001ENOZY4/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I13SUZX990WJIH&colid=3KG9B3IHZ05QD

$789.95 body only http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-D90-12-3MP-Digital-Body/dp/B001ET5U92/ref=pd_cp_p_1

though the canon rebel seems enticing

and yes I have owned a video camera - I have a super old 1993 style sanyo 8mm not high 8 and not stereo huge by today's standards

I have been wanting a better still camera too - would love a D90 but could be swayed to the canon
I have a panasonic Lumix DMC-F27 - shoots mpegs mono and not great, also it is not as great in the low light as I would like but it is a point and shoot (better then my old fuji)

--Ian

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #21 on:** December 04, 2010, 03:03:37 PM »

anyone:
I am strongly thinking about this one

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HDC-SD600K-High-Def-Camcorder-Wide-Angle/dp/B003QHXZTC/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1EA176CQKZY0&colid=3KG9B3IHZ05QD

it's strange no info on the panasonic web site... It appears it was some kind of only in europe PAL cam - however it is NTSC - it is very similar to the 700 w/o the manual controls

thoughts?
thanx
--Ian

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #22 on:** December 05, 2010, 02:30:12 AM »

although
this might be better
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/consumer_camcorders/vixia_hf_s200?selectedName=Specifications#Specifications

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-HF-S200-Memory-Camcorder/dp/B00322OOXM/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I11YYERTAFZIAP&colid=3KG9B3IHZ05QD#

though it's $749 or so...
which is comparable to the
http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Cameras-Camcorders/Camcorders/3-MOS-High-Def-Camcorders/model.HDC-TM700K.S_11002_7000000000000005702#tabsection
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0035LD0EY/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=

but they are like $250 more than we can really spend....
any thoughts?

beatkilla · « **Reply #23 on:** December 05, 2010, 12:12:12 PM »

Have you considered the Canon HV 30/40 series?I know of a used hv30 for $475 from highly reputable videographer.

shoestringconcerts · « **Reply #24 on:** December 06, 2010, 10:33:55 PM »

im very happy with my panasonic TM700 and its ois is the best i have ever seen.

i also have an HV20 and it is a good camera but the TM700 handles low light much better.

The best low ligh camera i have is the Sanyo Fh1 it is only about $300 but it has horrible stabilization and auto focus. I use them as stationary cameras on tripod or mounts. lock exposure and focus and they are great.

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #25 on:** December 07, 2010, 01:05:48 AM »

Quote from: shoestringconcerts on December 06, 2010, 10:33:55 PM

im very happy with my panasonic TM700 and its ois is the best i have ever seen.

i also have an HV20 and it is a good camera but the TM700 handles low light much better.

The best low ligh camera i have is the Sanyo Fh1 it is only about $300 but it has horrible stabilization and auto focus. I use them as stationary cameras on tripod or mounts. lock exposure and focus and they are great.

Thanx that is very useful information!

linv5800 · « **Reply #26 on:** December 07, 2010, 06:02:48 PM »

The Sony cx-150 is a nice little camera .
It's very light and small . You could put it in your pocket
and no one would ever even know you had it . I love mine .

guysonic · « **Reply #27 on:** December 13, 2010, 11:46:46 PM »

Newest LUMIX DMC-FZ100 still/HD1080 camera sells for <$400 and seems to do very good low light HD video. My next choice is older GH1 <$1000, and best seems GH2 LUMIX models exceeding stated budget at $1600 usd.

Music recording is best as using external audio flash deck+mics later edited to sync/exchange with camera's ALC audio. A tactic suggested when camera's manual REC LEVE audio feature is missing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k49lNgTBy8 Is YouTube test video with camera handheld using fishpole rig of Brook Robertson guitar performance in very low light.
This also posted with more video-audio tests + discussion on my site's video mic page at: http://www.sonicstudios.com/videomic.htm#richfield

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #28 on:** December 17, 2010, 02:28:52 AM »

ok I did it I ordered one of the Panasonic HDC-SD600K 3MOS High-Def Camcorder with 35mm Wide-Angle Lens and 12x Optical Zoom (Black)
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HDC-SD600K-High-Def-Camcorder-Wide-Angle/dp/B003QHXZTC/ref=dp_return_2?ie=UTF8&n=502394&s=photo
from Amazon - though B&H has the same pricing

I'll see how I like it - and report back.

Teen Wolf Blitzer · « **Reply #29 on:** December 17, 2010, 02:48:39 AM »

Sweet dude. We'll have to get some Pickathon multicam footage next year.

shoestringconcerts · « **Reply #30 on:** December 18, 2010, 03:02:23 AM »

the difference between the SD600 and tm700 is the 600 has no mic or headphone and no internal memory right?

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #31 on:** December 18, 2010, 03:02:52 PM »

Quote from: Mark Burgin™ on December 17, 2010, 02:48:39 AM

Sweet dude. We'll have to get some Pickathon multicam footage next year.

yes- that was one thing Moira and I were discussing...
and exactly what I was thinking, I figured you might like that!

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #32 on:** December 18, 2010, 03:07:23 PM »

Quote from: shoestringconcerts on December 18, 2010, 03:02:23 AM

the difference between the SD600 and tm700 is the 600 has no mic or headphone and no internal memory right?

I believe that is correct, I'll report more back when I have the camera in hand, I also ordered a "starter" 32GB card with and plan on getting more...
right now not concerned about either mic or headphone... as I'd likely sync audio with video in post - if I ever get to that place
or let someone else mix the raw footage with other cams for multi cams...

shoestringconcerts · « **Reply #33 on:** December 19, 2010, 04:19:22 AM »

i dont know about the 600 but my 700 gets pretty decent 5.1 audio with the internal mics. I dont even use my room mics at acoustic events or outdoor rock shows. mic input and the internal 32 gb of memory made the 700 worth the extra money for me even though I typically synch audio either from sbd or other mics.

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #34 on:** January 12, 2011, 01:50:09 AM »

:here is a sample of the Panasonic HDC-SD600:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON_CwdY-HPo
I have not yet figured out all the settings and was using an old bogen lightstand as my"tripod" with a small REI micro (nylon) trpod - velcrowed to the stand...
also I have yet you completely figure out iMovie
nor have I seen all of the footage I shot...
not the entire show, but a major portion of...
more later
anyhow
its a sample of:
Infamous Stringdusters
CultureWorks
Ashland OR

Sunday
January 09, 2011

===Encore===
t23 Hitchhiker

--Ian
PS please excuse my novice shooting skills- I'm still trying to figure the camera out...

shoestringconcerts · « **Reply #35 on:** January 12, 2011, 02:25:29 AM »

Quote from: ArchivalAudio on January 12, 2011, 01:50:09 AM

:here is a sample of the Panasonic HDC-SD600:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON_CwdY-HPo

--Ian
PS please excuse my novice shooting skills- I'm still trying to figure the camera out...

its a little too bright, you want to shoot in manual mode and practice changing shutter and iris to adjust the picture, we are used to seeing 'bright' faces but the reality is our faces arent suppose to glow. you need to lower exposure and lowing the iris/ gain setting is the easiest way.

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #36 on:** January 12, 2011, 02:27:58 AM »

Quote from: shoestringconcerts on January 12, 2011, 02:25:29 AM

Quote from: ArchivalAudio on January 12, 2011, 01:50:09 AM
:here is a sample of the Panasonic HDC-SD600:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON_CwdY-HPo

--Ian
PS please excuse my novice shooting skills- I'm still trying to figure the camera out...

its a little too bright, you want to shoot in manual mode and practice changing shutter and iris to adjust the picture, we are used to seeing 'bright' faces but the reality is our faces arent suppose to glow. you need to lower exposure and lowing the iris/ gain setting is the easiest way.

thanx - I try to get that figured out- I have some manual controls but not for everything... I think I had it set at 1/60 -
--Ian

aleal5687 · « **Reply #37 on:** January 12, 2011, 11:06:44 AM »

Looks like canon has a few new camcorders that have better low light capabilities.

They have a new sensor called HD CMOS Pro. Combined with the Canon Exclusive HD CMOS Pro Image Sensor, it captures video with stunning resolution, superb low-light performance, and a wide dynamic range.
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/hd_cmos_pro

HF M41 $799
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/consumer_camcorders/vixia_hf_m41

HF M40 $699
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/consumer_camcorders/vixia_hf_m40

HF M 400 $649
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/consumer_camcorders/vixia_hf_m400

They are going to be released in march.

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #38 on:** January 12, 2011, 12:04:23 PM »

here is another sample a few songs before the encore
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUxfL-UpV1c

ArchivalAudio · « **Reply #39 on:** January 13, 2011, 02:07:09 AM »

Quote from: shoestringconcerts on January 12, 2011, 02:25:29 AM

its a little too bright, you want to shoot in manual mode and practice changing shutter and iris to adjust the picture, we are used to seeing 'bright' faces but the reality is our faces arent suppose to glow. you need to lower exposure and lowing the iris/ gain setting is the easiest way.

Comments on the above post ^^^^ ?
I think that the lights were (are) less than optimal
if you watch black rock you'll see a different exposure, though the cameras settings are the same

thanx for the input

beatkilla · « **Reply #40 on:** January 14, 2011, 12:24:48 PM »

Not bad.....lighting is not the greatest thats for sure.Maybe try different white balance settings.And if using a tripod turn OFF steadyshot.Keep on filmin'!!And i didn't know peeps still dropped acid before shows.....those dancers had me cracking up.