Topic: What to do to improve my recordings?

[nameloc01]

New hypothesis:

After many consecutive years of Ministry shows...your hearing is in fact damaged far worse than you realised and the shows were in reality far louder than you think.

[kfrinkle]

it could be...

[Church-Audio]

Karl,
It gets to the point, where at some exact specific place at some shows , every mic will clip. If its only happened to you a couple of times (meaning far fewer than more) it may just be that those few instances, at those shows were just too much. If it is happening a lot, you may want to get those mics checked out. Seeing as how you're running them 3w, they should be fine the vast majority of the time.
(Maybe your BB is f'ed up also)

I taped Ministry last summer..ran U853>8532s, those are the AT power modules. They raise the SPL handling on my mics to around 144db before they will tweak. Now, I can tell you, and Andy (junk) can verify the absolutely fucking insane volume that they were playing ..I was able to tell just by how I had to set my levels that these did/do in fact, handle (quite a bit) higher spls than my ps2 (haven't clipped this yet)setup. I had my HI-MD levels completely maxed out and was *barely* hitting midpoint on my levels. Still, when I got home and played it back, there was a very faint hint of clipping. I'm pretty certain, with the volume that show was, it would be very difficult to pull one that wouldn't.
Point was, that show was just a little past that point where my mics could handle it.
If Andy hadn't had an extra set of earplugs, I can safely say I would have walked out...it was that loud.

You have never been to a show where the level was 144 or anywhere near it I can guarantee that. So if you mics were clipping it was much below the 144 db levels that some people claim they can handle. Not every mic will distort at high bass levels trust me I make more then a few that dont. If you were at a show that was 144 db you would be dead or deaf or both 

[nameloc01]

I meant what I said, and * was not exaggerating* at all. The single loudest show I have ever seen, EVER. Were we sitting in the balcony, and the pressure was actually hurting my chest. Seriously. It was almost like putting an arena size sound system in an old theater.

[nameloc01]

Secondly, as I said...I normally run the U853>ps2 setup, and I have done so enough times whereas I can pretty much put the levels pretty damn close to where they need to be before the music even starts..just from knowing the rig, and the venues I frequent. I had the levels completely *maxed* out and was straining to even get mid way on my meter...that was level "30"..for large arena shows, I only run the U853>ps2 on maybe "25". What I'm getting at is, I have never, ever overloaded the ps2 setup recording FOS in arenas, the 8532 setup was maxed (level wise) and barely getting to where it should have been.
Which tells me a few things...
A. The ps2 combo can handle very high spls
B. The 8532 setup can handle even more
C. The *slight* clipping at the Ministry show was a little too much for the 8532s, and would have been clearly too much for the ps2 (which would have been a first)
D. Don't go see Ministry without earplugs. (Not that anyone will..there all through)

Those spl specs are on...or very close, or at least close enough that the order isn't going to be changed.

[Church-Audio]

I meant what I said, and * was not exaggerating* at all. The single loudest show I have ever seen, EVER. Were we sitting in the balcony, and the pressure was actually hurting my chest. Seriously. It was almost like putting an arena size sound system in an old theater.

I am sure it was loud but it was not 144 db if it was people would be running from the room with blood dripping out of there ears from ruptured eardrums therefor your mics can not handle 144 db! Simple I dont think many know what 120 db sounds like never mind 144 db! Nobody mixes at much over 120 because its really not wise if you unless you want to go to court and lose all of your worldly possessions from a class action lawsuit due to permanent hearing damage. 120 is way WAY to loud at 144db is way above the pain threshold.

[nameloc01]

Maybe is was 140..

The point was, it overloaded the 8532s (a little)
Knowing both setups, I can say it would have clearly overloaded the 853>ps2 setup...which, even being 15' in front of a wall of speakers in huge arenas has not been able to do.
So, it was THAT LOUD.
No bullshit...if "Junkyardt" had not had extra earplugs I definitely would have walked out. (which I have never done before)

I can honestly say that they probably were breaking some kind of "code" as to the volume of the show.

[nameloc01]

If you send me your address you can test em'. 

[Church-Audio]

Maybe is was 140..

The point was, it overloaded the 8532s (a little)
Knowing both setups, I can say it would have clearly overloaded the 853>ps2 setup...which, even being 15' in front of a wall of speakers in huge arenas has not been able to do.
So, it was THAT LOUD.
No bullshit...if "Junkyardt" had not had extra earplugs I definitely would have walked out. (which I have never done before)

I can honestly say that they probably were breaking some kind of "code" as to the volume of the show.

LOL maybe you dont know what it was with out a calibrated DB meter But I can tell you it was not anywhere near 144 db

[Chaosu]

Hey Chris, I would love to buy Your mics if they would do better the problem is that I don't have enough money (due to crysis dolar costs me 170% of what it used to cost when I bought my rig).
One more question. Is it possible that some kind/part of disortion is caused by air pressure coming from speakes and thats why I should use windscreens? (if im not mixing names).

[nameloc01]

You're sounding like my wife. That wasn't really the point, the point was to illustrate different ways of powering mics and the performance of each. Had I run the 853s off of "plug-in" they probably would have tweaked in the lobby.  The ps2 setup would also have clipped, and clipped sooner than the 8532 setup.
The other point was sometimes its just too loud and there's not much you can do if you're not prepared (power wise).

[Chaosu]

If above message was directed to me I indeed missed Your point and I still do.
I am sure I never went to gig that was just too loud.
Thanks for illustrating these ways for me, does not help at all but yes, I do know more.
I have read many topics before buying my rig and I was sure I am prepared enough. I have heard many shows and I belive I was satisfied with sound quality. But it turned out that I either have to stand in the back or my mics will do very bad in most cases. I know I'm losing some of mix quality by standing in place where I also have good view, but I understood that I'm losing even more because of my rig limitations. I want to spend my money wisely, if Your wife is acting same You should call Yourself lucky.

[nameloc01]

The point was..simply you are powering your mics incorrectly. Sometimes they will be "okay" the way you are using them, but with low to moderate spls, with loud shows they will more than likely clip. I ran AT mics the same way before and had those same problems.
 Those mics are designed to be ran with a 3wire phantom power setup (off of a mixing board)..not a "2wire" Soundpros 9v battery box. It simply does not power them correctly. You can call SP and they will tell you this, as will Audio-Technica.

No, that wasn't directed at you..it was at people that were playing word games similiar to my wife (which she was doing right when I was writing that)

[Chaosu]

Okay, thanks for clarifying. I hope to find a cheap solution to this...

[nameloc01]

Good luck.