Author Topic: What will be a better recording setup with the Zoom H2? (Read 5415 times)

bucsab12 · « **on:** September 20, 2009, 07:26:38 PM »

Hi everyone.

I am a beginner in recording and I have a question about a recording setup and I would love to hear some of your suggestions.

I own a Zoom H2. I have barely used it but still, the right channel on my Line In socket stopped working. There is a show I want to record this week so I don't have the time to send the Zoom back for a replacement and I will have to tape the show with what I have got.

At the beginning I thought I would record the show using external mics>battery box>Mic In socket (set on low) with plug in power turned off. I have already recorded one show using this setup after the right channel on my Line In socket fried and it was OK but nothing compared to the Line In socket.

My other option is to use the Line In socket and record only the left channel, for a better sound but a mono recording.

Please tell me which option do you think is better and regarding the second option, is it possible to record only the left channel and then to use some sound editing program so it will be also heard through the right channel and not only the left?

Thank you very much in advance

P.S.

Buy an edirol and save your money...

rhinowing · « **Reply #1 on:** September 20, 2009, 09:48:01 PM »

i'd go with the line-in. you can easily make it into two channels with audacity, which is a free program

bucsab12 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 20, 2009, 10:06:56 PM »

Thank you rhinowing for the reply

I downloaded Audacity but I am not sure how to do what you said.

If I will record using the Line In socket I will have audio from the left channel and a flat line on the right channel.

Can you please tell me how can I copy the left channel so it will appear both on the right and left channels so the flat line on the right channel will be replaced?

su6oxone · « **Reply #3 on:** September 20, 2009, 11:26:28 PM »

Quote from: bucsab12 on September 20, 2009, 07:26:38 PM

My other option is to use the Line In socket and record only the left channel, for a better sound but a mono recording.

I wouldn't recommend taping with one channel and duplicating it to end up with a mono recording. Not sure why line sounds so much better than mic-in, unless you're talking about getting some distortion or something. But, yeah, maybe you should get an Edirol R-09HR instead.

bucsab12 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 20, 2009, 11:37:53 PM »

Yeah I know getting the Edirol is my next step but I won't be able to get it in time for that show...

When I recorded the other show using external mics>battery box>Mic In (set on low with plug in power turned off) the recording sounded like it was from a great distance and there was some distortion as you said compared to the Line In recording which I did from a greater distance but it sounded crisper and clearer.

Can you please explain why the option of multiplying a single track won't work so well?

It will be great if you could tell me how can I do it with Audacity so I can experiment before the show because I couldn't find it in the Help menu...

Thanks again

fmaderjr · « **Reply #5 on:** September 21, 2009, 06:31:59 PM »

Quote from: placenta on September 21, 2009, 04:50:57 PM

Just out of curiosity: how good are the internal microphones of the LS-10? (not necessarily compared to the equipment mentioned in the thread, but on a general basis).

You will have a mono recording. Even in places where the PA's are mono, having the room ambiance and crowd noises in stereo adds a lot to the recording.

If mic in sounds that bad, you could try the H2's internal mics. Although I don't think much of the H2 as a recorder using external mics, the internal mics are surprisingly good if the sound pressure levels at the show won't be extremely high. There can be a problem with loud shows because the recording level control comes after the ADC, rather than before. For a loud show, set the mic gain switch to low, but if you need to set the record level below 100 to keep the meters from going over 0 dB, your recording will distort anyway.

If you try this, keep the record level at 100. If the meters are going over 0 dB you will know your recording is distorting and if possible move away from the source until your meters are peaking below 0 dB.

bucsab12 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 21, 2009, 07:51:38 PM »

Thanks for the reply. It is going to be an open venue and it is not supposed to be that loud so I may try to record using the internal mics. I think I will try to record using each setting and see how it comes out. My only issue with using the internal mics is that they are really sensitive to noise and people speaking etc. I recorded a show using the internal mics and there were some people speaking around me and when I listened to the recording it seemed like all the talking was captured. Talking was less of an issue when using the external mics. It really annoys me that the Line In socket on the zoom fried!!! I am sending my zoom back for a refund and I am going to buy the edirol...

sunjan · « **Reply #7 on:** September 22, 2009, 04:02:43 AM »

Quote from: fmaderjr on September 21, 2009, 06:31:59 PM

If mic in sounds that bad, you could try the H2's internal mics. Although I don't think much of the H2 as a recorder using external mics, the internal mics are surprisingly good if the sound pressure levels at the show won't be extremely high.

That was my thought too.
If you can find a spot away from the talkers, try out your placement during the support act, bring headphones and listen to the result during the break inbetween the acts. Adjust your levels and/or distance to stage accordingly...

bucsab12 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 22, 2009, 04:33:47 AM »

I wanted to thank all of you for your replies. It has really helped me to narrow my choices and to think of some new ones... After listening to my results using each setup I have eliminated the Mic In option and I am left with the Line In Mono option or the internal mics option. I have found that there is a small show today that I can go to and then I will be able to compare the two methods in the same. It won't really resemble the venue of the show that I will be going to later this week but it my give me a better understanding of what each method is like. I will tell you about my results later today... Thanks again everyone

bucsab12 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 25, 2009, 07:03:59 PM »

So I went to the big show this week after going to another show a day earlier and testing a few setups. I have decided to go with the mono Line In option, which sounded better than the internal mics. The results were surprisingly good (for my taste) when using a Zoom H2>custom made battery box>custom made mics. I do have a couple of questions following the concert:

1. Recording is allowed in the venues that I am going to so I am looking for a simple setup to use instead of going stealth (placing the mics on my glasses). Please tell me if you have any ideas (not involving big stands etc.)

2. In a stadium with a specific seating arrangement, how are you able to avoid the noisy people around you?

Thanks again

bucsab12 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 30, 2009, 08:04:43 AM »

I will really appreciate it if someone with more recording experience will give his advice about avoiding the noisy people and about simple recoding setups.

Neilyboy · « **Reply #11 on:** September 30, 2009, 09:26:53 AM »

Avoiding noisy people is usually one of the toughest things. How many times have you downloaded a show and read through the included text file to see something like "thanks to the chatters in the crowd this is somewhat noisy" or "show was great except for the idiot in-front/behind me in the crowd"..

There really is no way to keep them quiet other than to re-position yourself. Sometimes (not often) you could mention to them you are trying to record the show and that you would be happy to offer them a copy if they try to keep it quite. 9 times out of 10 that will just get them more upset, and they will either run and find security or they will spot your mics and have a karaoke session with them..

If you are in assigned seating you may just be stuck and have to deal with it. Only way to eliminate the crowd noise is to think a head and get a group of people to go with you. When you purchase your tickets grab a few seats around each other and place yourself in the middle. You can not predict the crowd around you, nor can you spoil their fun at the show (even if their 'fun' consists of getting tanked and pissing in the crowd).

Otherwise, if you have a choice of where to sit. Go to the venue a head of time. See a couple shows get familiar with the location and find a few sweet spots that are in low traffic areas. You just have to use some common sense and get to know your surroundings. I am not sure what you are running in the line of mic's as you say custom batt box and custom mic's (im assuming some panasonic wm61a caps or something) either way maybe just get creative with your mic placement. Its a hobby just enjoy it try not to worry so much about the crowd. Worry more about your technique and creativity. Not every recording is going to turn out great. Just do not get frustrated if and when things do not go as planned. There are many other nights and many other shows to perfect your skills.

Take care,
Neil

bucsab12 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 30, 2009, 10:00:32 AM »

Thank you Neil. The crowd was so loud in the show that I went to... It was really annoying.

All the time the people around me were clapping (even during the performance) and during some parts of the show it seemed like it became a sing along... It is really irritating when you pay a $150 to hear someone that looks like you aunt singing while her husband is clapping into your mic...

Next time I will try to find a better placement away from the crowd...

Do you might have any advice for placing my setup in the venue? I am talking about a venue without assigned seating and where recording is allowed. I would like to find an option to place my mics and at the same time enjoy the show? Any ideas?

Belexes · « **Reply #13 on:** September 30, 2009, 10:49:13 AM »

Most of us here use stands or clamp to a balcony to get away from close crowd noise. If your mics are placed on you as a human mic stand, get them as high as you can (but if on your head, limit head movement).

Fanboys and drunks at a general admission show are many times near the stage. You want to position yourself farther back and try and find the sweetspot that sounds good and is away from people you don't want to record. It can be challenging.

bucsab12 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 30, 2009, 11:16:55 AM »

When I recorded the concert I placed the mics on my glasses. I might go with the hat option next time. If you have any images of how that can be done I will really appreciate it if you can PM me.

If there is an option, I would like to build some setup where my equipment is not placed on me. I was thinking of using a mic stand so I have taken a look at the images of some of the rigs that other users uploaded to the site but everything over there looks very complicated and expensive. I would like to keep it as simple as possible. I only plan on using a simple setup of Omni/Card mics>Battery box/preamp>recorder. Do you know of a small stand that I can use (not a 10 foot one). One that can be closed down into a fairly small size? Have you seen someone use a tripod for example? I would love to see some pictures of a simple setup if you have any...

Also a picture of the mics connected to the balcony will be very helpful.

Thanks again for all the help

yltfan · « **Reply #15 on:** September 30, 2009, 01:22:10 PM »

Quote from: bucsab12 on September 30, 2009, 11:16:55 AM

I only plan on using a simple setup of Omni/Card mics>Battery box/preamp>recorder.

If you want to record less crowd noise, ditch the omnis, maybe buy some hyper cards, and make sure they are pointed in the right direction.

bucsab12 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 30, 2009, 01:28:29 PM »

I actually purchased today the CA-14 cards along with the 9100 pre and the CA-14 omni mics from Mr. Church so I hope that will give me some improvement over my results with the omni mics I have used so far.

Neilyboy · « **Reply #17 on:** September 30, 2009, 02:28:13 PM »

Check out this thread for some good info...

http://www.taperssection.com/index.php/topic,110425.msg1663310.html#msg1663310

May be more of what you are into as you sound like you dont want to setup a full blown lightstand.

Neil

bucsab12 · « **Reply #18 on:** September 30, 2009, 08:27:50 PM »

Thank you very much Neilyboy for the link to that thread. That is what I was looking for...

I wasn't able to find the company that manufactures this poles (APIC). All the links in the thread seem to be dead and nothing turned up on a google search either.

I think I may have some problems with a pole because I don't think I will always have something to clamp on like in outdoor venues and in some festivals. All the details of the custom pole are great so I think I will start looking for a custom tripod with the about the same same dimensions.

In the thread the user tgakidis posted a picture with the mics on the pole. Can you tell me how did he connect his mics? I will also look for some way to connect my mics (CA-14) to a pole and I am not sure how to do that. Thanks.

Neilyboy · « **Reply #19 on:** October 01, 2009, 08:31:07 AM »

You may be looking at his diy active bar..
http://www.taperssection.com/index.php/topic,115867.0.html

you could make something like that. Thing is you would have to find some mounts for your ca-14's. Maybe ask Chris (Church Audio) what he would recommend. I am somewhat curious myself as I have some smaller at mic's that I have thought about mounting. Maybe just an o-ring or something I dunno I would have to think but I think that DIY link is a start for ya. As for a tripod. You will want to search around for a lightstand. Just search ebay for 'light stand' its really all in how much you want to spend, and how high you want to go (as your mic's do not require anything special since they weigh like what 5oz each haha). I got a light stand for like 25 shipped and it has never failed me yet.

also if you are still interested in an telescopic extention here is the one I bought.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/33185-REG/Matthews_429499_Telescopic_Baby_Stand_Extension.html

take care man
Neil

bucsab12 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 01, 2009, 10:00:53 AM »

Hi Neil. The DIY that you found looks great and really simple to create... I think I will try building as soon as I get my mics.

About the mounts for the CA-14, I have found this thread and I think it may also work with your audio technica:

http://www.taperssection.com/index.php/topic,126585.msg1683287.html#msg1683287

Here is a link to the product that was suggested in that thread:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-GNA-2

In the first photo of the DIY guide, can you tell me what is used to hold the gray tube between the mics? It is not very clear from the picture and I would like to buy something similar to hold my mics...

I was looking for a light stand and found a cheap one at Amazon that extends to 7 feet which is great. I just have to figure out how I will be able to connect the end of it to my mics... This is what I was looking at:

http://www.amazon.com/Westcott-750-Photo-Basics-7-0-Foot/dp/B000NIKQ7Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1254402895&sr=8-1

Thanks again man I really appreciate your help

Neilyboy · « **Reply #21 on:** October 01, 2009, 02:56:18 PM »

no worries on the help. thats what this place is for..

thats a good link to that gna-2 from sp but shoot 25 bucks for a two dollar flexible rod with heat shrink on the end i think ill DIY it but its a good idea to base the project off of!

As for the thing to hold the tube as far as i can tell its just threaded rod. If you live here in the states check out lowes or similar store they have a bunch of hardware in drawers and one of the drawers has 6" pieces of threaded rod. the threaded rod then just screws into each of the mic clips..

light stand looks good you will just want an adapter to mount your diy vert bar to.

Neil

bucsab12 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 01, 2009, 04:53:28 PM »

I think all I have left to do is to wait until I receive all the equipment and then I will try to start and put it all together.

Thank you very much for all the help. It will take me some time but eventually I will keep you posted on how it works...

Neilyboy · « **Reply #23 on:** October 02, 2009, 08:53:23 AM »

Its all in playing around and experimenting.. heck I have probably only taped 25 shows myself but every time I learn something new... Its all in having fun with it.. Just don't get discouraged when something doesn't go as planned..

Neil