Topic: Tascam DR100 MKII (as Bit Bucket) and Mytek Stereo192 ADC - Incompatable?

[dallman]

I ran the following setup , Gefell>SD USBPre2>Mytek Stereo 192ADC. I ran digi out from the S/PDIF rca jacks from the USBPre2 to the Tascam DR100 MKII and from the Mytek to an MT2496. That worked fine, but my original intention was to run the reverse and run the USBPre2 into the MT2496 and the Mytek into the DR100MKII. That configuration gave me a DIN Unlock Message on the Tascam, which I know Steve got when he ran AES/EBU in his testing. I was using the S/PDIF out of the Mytek for sure but had the same issue.

I assume this will mean the Tascam DR100 MKII may not work with some older units, similar to the Sony D-50 issues many had with Grace. Since I do not think Mytek will be as accommodating, I am wondering if there may be any ideas out there. I will do more testing, but since I have a workable setup, I don't have any urgency right now. I will do more testing probably over the weekend.

Any thoughts?

[page]

I ran the following setup , Gefell>SD USBPre2>Mytek Stereo 192ADC. I ran digi out from the S/PDIF rca jacks from the USBPre2 to the Tascam DR100 MKII and from the Mytek to an MT2496. That worked fine, but my original intention was to run the reverse and run the USBPre2 into the MT2496 and the Mytek into the DR100MKII. That configuration gave me a DIN Unlock Message on the Tascam, which I know Steve got when he ran AES/EBU in his testing. I was using the S/PDIF out of the Mytek for sure but had the same issue.

I assume this will mean the Tascam DR100 MKII may not work with some older units, similar to the Sony D-50 issues many had with Grace. Since I do not think Mytek will be as accommodating, I am wondering if there may be any ideas out there. I will do more testing, but since I have a workable setup, I don't have any urgency right now. I will do more testing probably over the weekend.

Any thoughts?

I'd lay money it's in mytek's interpretation of the SPDIF spec which based on what I've read has been what other units have gotten hit with. Older units, in a rush to get something out the door, settled on the non-finalized design, so once that really solidified, we now see recorders which are expecting XQR and are getting XzR which they don't like.

[stevetoney]

I ran the following setup , Gefell>SD USBPre2>Mytek Stereo 192ADC. I ran digi out from the S/PDIF rca jacks from the USBPre2 to the Tascam DR100 MKII and from the Mytek to an MT2496. That worked fine, but my original intention was to run the reverse and run the USBPre2 into the MT2496 and the Mytek into the DR100MKII. That configuration gave me a DIN Unlock Message on the Tascam, which I know Steve got when he ran AES/EBU in his testing. I was using the S/PDIF out of the Mytek for sure but had the same issue.

I assume this will mean the Tascam DR100 MKII may not work with some older units, similar to the Sony D-50 issues many had with Grace. Since I do not think Mytek will be as accommodating, I am wondering if there may be any ideas out there. I will do more testing, but since I have a workable setup, I don't have any urgency right now. I will do more testing probably over the weekend.

Any thoughts?

I'd lay money it's in mytek's interpretation of the SPDIF spec which based on what I've read has been what other units have gotten hit with. Older units, in a rush to get something out the door, settled on the non-finalized design, so once that really solidified, we now see recorders which are expecting XQR and are getting XzR which they don't like.

I understand your explanation Page, but doesn't it seem like Cliff's Mytek would be similar to my mini-me as far as playing with the new Tascam?  The Tascam locks onto the mme with no problem.  FWIW, to add confusion to Cliffs experience, the mini-me wouldn't interface with the D50 SPDIF signal that I bought and sold.  I used one of those HOSA optical converters to get the SPDIF from the mini-me to the D50.

Cliff, please don't be offended by my simple question which I'm sure you already know, but just making sure...you've checked that the Tascam settings for sample rate and bit depth, which are menu driven, are the same as the Mytek, right?  They have to be the same for the Tascam to lock onto the Mytek digi-signal.  In other words, it's not automatic that the Tascam adjusts to the Mytek...you have to match them manually. 

Offensive Question No. 2:  Also, make sure that in the 'Remote/Digi In' menu that you've selected DIGI IN under the Function setting.

[page]

I ran the following setup , Gefell>SD USBPre2>Mytek Stereo 192ADC. I ran digi out from the S/PDIF rca jacks from the USBPre2 to the Tascam DR100 MKII and from the Mytek to an MT2496. That worked fine, but my original intention was to run the reverse and run the USBPre2 into the MT2496 and the Mytek into the DR100MKII. That configuration gave me a DIN Unlock Message on the Tascam, which I know Steve got when he ran AES/EBU in his testing. I was using the S/PDIF out of the Mytek for sure but had the same issue.

I assume this will mean the Tascam DR100 MKII may not work with some older units, similar to the Sony D-50 issues many had with Grace. Since I do not think Mytek will be as accommodating, I am wondering if there may be any ideas out there. I will do more testing, but since I have a workable setup, I don't have any urgency right now. I will do more testing probably over the weekend.

Any thoughts?

I'd lay money it's in mytek's interpretation of the SPDIF spec which based on what I've read has been what other units have gotten hit with. Older units, in a rush to get something out the door, settled on the non-finalized design, so once that really solidified, we now see recorders which are expecting XQR and are getting XzR which they don't like.

I understand your explanation Page, but doesn't it seem like Cliff's Mytek would be similar to my mini-me as far as playing with the new Tascam?  The Tascam locks onto the mme with no problem.  FWIW, to add confusion to Cliffs experience, the mini-me wouldn't interface with the D50 SPDIF signal that I bought and sold.  I used one of those HOSA optical converters to get the SPDIF from the mini-me to the D50.

touche, I wonder if there is varying degrees of tolerance with the tascam where there wasn't with the D50. It's picky about certain bits but doesn't care about others? Dunno.

I wonder if the hosa strips some of the vital non-sample bits like headers, during conversion that the D50 is looking for. Has anyone tried it with a usbpre2 which does send a valid signal that the D50 will take?

[rodeen]

I've rolled next to Cliff the last two nights and he did indeed have the DIGI set because he took a signal from his USB Pre just fine.  Settings we 24/48, the same as the Mytek.  His trusty MicroTrack 2496 took a signal from the Mytek just fine.  One more option would be to try plugging my Tascam HD-P2 or his to see if that accepts a signal as I am taking digi in from my V3 (Steve's old one :-)  ).  Or he could try taking a signal from my V3 to his DR100mkII.  Lots of options.

BTW, I ran that my KM-184's>V3 last night for DSO at First Av in Minneapolis and pulled possibly my best sounding recording every from that room.  3 Umphrey's McGee in the next two nights in the same place.

[stevetoney]

I've rolled next to Cliff the last two nights and he did indeed have the DIGI set because he took a signal from his USB Pre just fine.  Settings we 24/48, the same as the Mytek.  His trusty MicroTrack 2496 took a signal from the Mytek just fine.  One more option would be to try plugging my Tascam HD-P2 or his to see if that accepts a signal as I am taking digi in from my V3 (Steve's old one :-)  ).  Or he could try taking a signal from my V3 to his DR100mkII.  Lots of options.

BTW, I ran that my KM-184's>V3 last night for DSO at First Av in Minneapolis and pulled possibly my best sounding recording every from that room.  3 Umphrey's McGee in the next two nights in the same place.

Dammit!  Sorry to hear that Cliff.  Well, that's just strange behavior.  Since the MT2496 locks onto the Tascam and since my mini-me locks onto the Tascam, that does seem to indict the Mytek as the odd-ball out on this discussion.  Unfortunately, I recall a recent post from someone else saying that they had contacted Mytek about a potential fix on SPDIF incompatibility with the D50 and Mytek told them that the issue was Sony's and didn't offer any support at all.  Not a very good response.

This might be a long shot Cliff, but someone posted a link in one of my DR100mkII threads to a $25 cable that apparently converts AES/EBU to SPDIF.  Perhaps you could try going from the Mytek's AES output connector into the Tascam using this cable?!?  It just might work because as I mentioned in my review, for some reason the Tascam did in fact lock onto one of the 24bit AES/EBU signals out of my mini-me (can't remember if it was 44.1 or 48) even though it wouldn't lock onto any of the other AES/EBU settings.

Perhaps it would be worth checking the AES/EBU out of the Mytek to see if you can get one or more of the settings to lock like my mini-me did.  If you have an XLR > RCA cable just give it a shot to see if you get any signal compatibility at any of the settings.

PS:  How's it going Rick?

[dallman]

I've rolled next to Cliff the last two nights and he did indeed have the DIGI set because he took a signal from his USB Pre just fine.  Settings we 24/48, the same as the Mytek.  His trusty MicroTrack 2496 took a signal from the Mytek just fine.  One more option would be to try plugging my Tascam HD-P2 or his to see if that accepts a signal as I am taking digi in from my V3 (Steve's old one :-)  ).  Or he could try taking a signal from my V3 to his DR100mkII.  Lots of options.

BTW, I ran that my KM-184's>V3 last night for DSO at First Av in Minneapolis and pulled possibly my best sounding recording every from that room.  3 Umphrey's McGee in the next two nights in the same place.

Dammit!  Sorry to hear that Cliff.  Well, that's just strange behavior.  Since the MT2496 locks onto the Tascam and since my mini-me locks onto the Tascam, that does seem to indict the Mytek as the odd-ball out on this discussion.  Unfortunately, I recall a recent post from someone else saying that they had contacted Mytek about a potential fix on SPDIF incompatibility with the D50 and Mytek told them that the issue was Sony's and didn't offer any support at all.  Not a very good response.

This might be a long shot Cliff, but someone posted a link in one of my DR100mkII threads to a $25 cable that apparently converts AES/EBU to SPDIF.  Perhaps you could try going from the Mytek's AES output connector into the Tascam using this cable?!?  It just might work because as I mentioned in my review, for some reason the Tascam did in fact lock onto one of the 24bit AES/EBU signals out of my mini-me (can't remember if it was 44.1 or 48) even though it wouldn't lock onto any of the other AES/EBU settings.

Perhaps it would be worth checking the AES/EBU out of the Mytek to see if you can get one or more of the settings to lock like my mini-me did.  If you have an XLR > RCA cable just give it a shot to see if you get any signal compatibility at any of the settings.

PS:  How's it going Rick?

Exactly my thinking Steve. I'll play with the AES/EBU and the various cables I have and see if I get a lock at any of the settings. I can also contact Mytek just so they hear from one more person. I'll probably just play around with it this weekend when I have some time, and see what happens. I know your mini me worked at 24/44.1. That would be fine if I discovered the same, so I'll report back. Nursing a bad cold now, so I'll rest up and report back when I have tried all the various possible combinations.

[stevetoney]

^ Well then that's your answer...you and your Mytek have the same virus.   

[kirk97132]

DISCLAIMER: Not sure if this applies to the DR-100

When the USBPre2 first came it it would not work with my DR-680 and some sony decks(not sure of model number) Sound Devices has since fixed that problem.  But, the cause of the problem still exists.  The Tascam (and Sony) deck did not read the actual incoming data it took it's information from the header.  In turn it would not lock correctly.  This is a problem that still exists with the Auident Mico preamp's spdif feed.  As I worked through this problem with Sound Devices one of the decks I was also using was  Micro Tracker, which would lock to the spdif feed(before SD update).  It sounds like you are running into the same problem and it is an incompatibility issue between the preamp and recorder.  Tascam is not going to do anything about it and odds are the same goes for Mytek.  Just like the fact that there will not be any cahnges to the Mico.  In laymans terms the tascam is looking for a consumer style information in the spdif stream and cannot read a professional style information in the stream.  That is a huge oversimplification and the best way I know how to describe the problem, even though it might not be exactly accurate so don't rake me over the coals for it   Sound Devices made a change to their software and did an update that patched the USBPre2.  The Pre2 now supplies the information that the Tascam and Sony decks are looking for.  I believe(but I'm not positieve) that the Tascam deck WILL lock to the AES feed from the mico.  IF the Mytek has AES output I'd try feeding that to the Tascam.  But only if the DR-100 is able to accept an AES signal(the DR-680 is designed for AES signal).  Hope that helps 

[tcf]

We never could get either the spdf or aes to lock on to the TAscam. The mt and sd boxes no prob.

[stevetoney]

We never could get either the spdf or aes to lock on to the TAscam. The mt and sd boxes no prob.

[dallman]

All great replies. I have learned a great deal from everyone on this issue.

This is hopefully good knowledge for shoppers, becasue these issues are best known so we can work around them as best we know how to meet our own taping objectives. I think it is super cool that SD worked it out, and I do not blame the other companies for not working it out, their priorities are whatever they are. I don't think that makes them bad, but I do totally applaud the fixes that some manufacturers have worked out. Nice that we have some voice as a community.

I'll try and find some time to do more in depth testing this weekend. I wouldn't rule out my calling Mytek, but I'd be expecting at best to plant a seed, not much more. I am looking forward to comparing the differences between going Gefell>SD USBpre2>Mytek>MT2496 and Gefell>SD USBpre2>Tascam DR100MKII, as they can run simultaneously. I recorded a bunch of stuff, but have not had time to give a close listen as of yet.

[tcf]

Excuse me? I dont understand why you say it is bullshit? I did own a tascam and other digital preamps. The Mico wasn't able to lock on to either the aes or spdf. Confirmed!

[stevetoney]

I'm just saying that it's too bad...bullshit...that they don't lock.  I feel badly for you and Cliff that your gear isn't working like you'd like it to.

[dallman]

I'm just saying that it's too bad...bullshit...that they don't lock.  I feel badly for you and Cliff that your gear isn't working like you'd like it to.

No Sweat Steve, I never misunderstood your comment or took it wrong. I think it is Bull too, in the scope of life, but I'm fine since I have the MT. Maybe I'll pick up a marantz at some point and maybe the Mytek will work with the my Tascam HD P2 (maybe not).

Thanks!