Topic: toshiba 3960 - flakier than 15 year old valley girl

[Kyle]

anyone remember what the tascam cd-writers were going for??

Tascam? When I bought my Fostex CR-200 back in 1998, the msrp was $2195. Now they go on ebay (new) for $300. The D/A is sweet tho; one of the best redbook players I have heard. Fantastic transport too. Ooops, starting to ramble, sorry for the brief hijack - please resume

[BCostigan]

I was just pointing out that the 10 year argument is flawed due to this...and that is why I am ok with buying cheap transports, that sound good, rather than paying a bunch of money for something that will be outdated....

anyone remember what the tascam cd-writers were going for??

I didn't buy a tascam but I did buy a Sony RCD-W1 (component cd player/recorder) when they first came out.....set me back about $500.     Think that gets much use now? 

I have no problem spending $$ on stuff like amps and speakers because they will last and will not be lost in the dust of a newer higher resolution format.  For $70 I'd rather buy a handful of 3960s than one "good" universal player.

I also just remembered my JVC 3 head casstette deck (remember when 3 head decks were THE shit?) that crapped out on me after a bout 2 years.  Another  "good" (read expensive) media player gone quickly.


Hey....if ya got the $$ to buy a $500-$1000 tape/cd/dvd/8-track/whatever player every few years because it either breaks or becomes outdated......have a ball. 

[Daryan]

my 4960 won't spin dvds/cds anymore.  it worked great for a couple of months tho.

I had this happen with mine once.  The chassis in the 4960 REALLY needs to be dampened, as it creates a lot of vibration.  Open the unit up, dampen it, then pull out the connecting ribbon and reattach it to the psb.  My guess is you will be golden.  Otherwise, the other answer is if the unit is still receiving power, there is a loose copnnection probably do to a bad solder joint somewhere.  I would take a look.  If it is entirely worthless to you, and you still have it, I will take it and fix it!

[George]

with the technology curve that we have seen of CDs->DVD-A->SACD and the upcoming new DVD formats,. you will be lucky if the transport you buy today is even technically feasible in 5 years...10 years, it will be heavy doorjam

IOW, I should hold off on purchasing a universal disk player as long as possible?

no, if you try to wait out technology, you will never buy anything...

I was just pointing out that the 10 year argument is flawed due to this...and that is why I am ok with buying cheap transports, that sound good, rather than paying a bunch of money for something that will be outdated....

anyone remember what the tascam cd-writers were going for??

This logic makes no sense.  I own a MusicHall cd-25 which plays cd's and hdcd's.  It also plays cdr's.  It's quite a solid cd player and very upgradeable if need be.  DVD-A and SACD are outta here thanks to lack of public interest, so yeah, whoever bought into those formats is screwed royally.  I don't consider myself a audiophile, but a audio enthusiast who loves music and thinks the redbook format ain't going anywhere fast, so why not splurge a little and get a cd player that sounds sweet. 

Now, on the other hand there's audio enthusiasts who are looking for a budget source that sounds great and there's some out there.  My argument is that these budget sources are probably not as well built and will probably fail far sooner than a well-built, albeit more expensive, unit.

I'll never understand why people settle for a budget source when there's plenty of stellar sources that cost some dough, but will last the test of time unlike these budget sources that fall apart.  Plus, i'm a believe of source first, therefore garbage in>garbage out is something i believe in as well.  If you're willing to dump thousands on speakers and amps, why not get a source that's equal in terms of quality? 

Now interconnects (or audio cables of any kind) are a different story, i'm not sold on those yet.

"FWIW, a simple perusal of the net would demonstrate that Tim is not the only one "propping up this model""

I know, people are raving about it over at head-fi among other forums i imagine as well.  Lets say i've always been concerned about budget sources that are all the rage then after a year or two they start to display problems.  I hate that and have been burned by it, so i steer clear of budget equipment that's supposed to give you the best bang for the buck.

"Hmmm... maybe I wasn't clear enough last time. BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS"

LOL, Tim, relax man. I have no beef with you at all.  I wrote a very honest reply and you drag it down to personal insults?

"I'm sick of your condescending attitude. I've got plenty of money in my playback system, it's pretty clear that I understand the value of nice gear - ASL, B&W, Bel Canto (not exactly low end stuff), not to mention my recording rigs: u89s, Apogee, Grace, Oade. Any of these ring a bell? "

I'm very familiar with those brands.  I could sit here and be an asshole and start tossing out names of companies no one here has probably never heard of, but that would be very petty.  What i was trying to say is that your rig would probably be better off with a higher quality source.  I mean, we all love kick ass budget sources, but they tend to be flaky and fall apart and that's what comes with the low price.  For example, i purchased a Rio Karma mp3 player, which is always being ranked up as the best mp3 player.  I decided to jump on it and buy one for the low price of $180...it's a 20GB model.  Now, the unit has it's problems (hd failures, faulty buttons, etc etc).  So far so good for me and it features a great EQ that apparently rivals any other (parametric eq).  Now, if the unit dies on me six months from now, who can i blame?  No one but me.  I knew the sucker had faults and at that price, i enjoyed it while it lasted. 

"EDIT: Maybe I can lecture you on the obvious shortcomings of your taping rig? Since you seem to enjoy lecturing others I'm sure you would love it..."

Absolutely.  When i trade my recordings, i always love to hear positive and negative feedback.  There's nothing wrong with it.  My preamp is ok, the dat is what it is and the mics, well, they sound rather decent.  I have a pair of Audix 1290C that i'd like to take out for a trial and let them do their magic.  I got to test them out briefly and they sounded freaking sweet, heads and shoulders above the soundpro's. 

No harm done and i think i probably came off the wrong way earlier, my apologies if i did so.  Hopefully this post will clear things up. 

[nickgregory]

DVD-A and SACD are outta here thanks to lack of public interest, so yeah, whoever bought into those formats is screwed royally.

screwed royally?  there are many great SACDs and DVD-As out there that imo are better than their redbook compliant siblings...while it is true that SACD and DVD-A have not taken off, the recordings that have been released in this format are fantastic...as a result, having a player that plays them is important to me.

I'll never understand why people settle for a budget source when there's plenty of stellar sources that cost some dough, but will last the test of time unlike these budget sources that fall apart.  Plus, i'm a believe of source first, therefore garbage in>garbage out is something i believe in as well.  If you're willing to dump thousands on speakers and amps, why not get a source that's equal in terms of quality? 

Now interconnects (or audio cables of any kind) are a different story, i'm not sold on those yet.

not all budget sources fall apart....some just arent built as well as others.  Hell, I have had high end televisions that have given me nothing but problems.  I agree that there is some truth to you get what you pay for...but honestly, that is not a hard and fast rule...and those that think it is in my experience are just trying to justify their $$$ spent.  Now this doesnt mean with dollars you cant get a smoking <insert whatever the product is here>, but it also means you can get overpriced garbage (see Bose) that is easily outperformed by something that is within its price class, or even lower.

[EScott]

Isn't DVD-A the only way to spread 24 / 96 recordings?  Everything I've gotten from Bos and Damon has been this format.

Are Gloco and Markham meeting at the flagpole - DRider style?  Maybe Sam Malone needs to buy them a round???

[nickgregory]

Isn't DVD-A the only way to spread 24 / 96 recordings? Everything I've gotten from Bos and Damon has been this format.

it is one way...using DVD Audio Creator, you basically make a DVD-V disc playable in any player that will output 24/96...

[George]

DVD-A and SACD are outta here thanks to lack of public interest, so yeah, whoever bought into those formats is screwed royally. 

screwed royally?  there are many great SACDs and DVD-As out there that imo are better than their redbook compliant siblings...while it is true that SACD and DVD-A have not taken off, the recordings that have been released in this format are fantastic...as a result, having a player that plays them is important to me. 

Yeah, people will be screwed because they bought into a format that will be dead.  I personally own just a few sacd titles and they do sound quite nice, but i don't consider them to sound leagues above their redbook counterparts.  The lack of good software has also hurt each formats chances of surviving. 

I'll never understand why people settle for a budget source when there's plenty of stellar sources that cost some dough, but will last the test of time unlike these budget sources that fall apart.  Plus, i'm a believe of source first, therefore garbage in>garbage out is something i believe in as well.  If you're willing to dump thousands on speakers and amps, why not get a source that's equal in terms of quality? 

Now interconnects (or audio cables of any kind) are a different story, i'm not sold on those yet.

not all budget sources fall apart....some just arent built as well as others.  Hell, I have had high end televisions that have given me nothing but problems.  I agree that there is some truth to you get what you pay for...but honestly, that is not a hard and fast rule...and those that think it is in my experience are just trying to justify their $$$ spent.  Now this doesnt mean with dollars you cant get a smoking <insert whatever the product is here>, but it also means you can get overpriced garbage (see Bose) that is easily outperformed by something that is within its price class, or even lower.

Sure, Bose is one of those companies that goes against what i said earlier.   I personally stay away from these "flavor of the month" items that will typically fail to perform in the long run.   I do agree with your logic thought, it's very reasonable and it's a damn shame we got stuck with dualdisc because the music industry is mired in fucking the consumer over.  I personally plan on sitting out dualdisc and wait for something real to come across that can be a successor to redbook.  Or maybe i should just upgrade to a killer vinyl rig 

[George]

Are Gloco and Markham meeting at the flagpole - DRider style?  Maybe Sam Malone needs to buy them a round???

Not sure what DRider style means, but i can go for a beer...or two.   

[Nick's Picks]

to say "you get what you pay for" w/the 3960 is foolish.
you get A LOT more than you paid for, but only in the sound out of the deck.  Certainly not in the construction quality of a $60 DVD player.  But it sounds better than a lot of players that approach 10x its price.

[pfife]

would you say that even w/o the mods?

[Cooker]

Are Gloco and Markham meeting at the flagpole - DRider style? Maybe Sam Malone needs to buy them a round???

Aces High Motherfuckers!!!!!

[George]

to say "you get what you pay for" w/the 3960 is foolish.
you get A LOT more than you paid for, but only in the sound out of the deck.  Certainly not in the construction quality of a $60 DVD player.  But it sounds better than a lot of players that approach 10x its price.

That's precisely my point.  On the other hand, i have my doubts that it sounds better "than a lot of players that approach 10x its price."

I hear this all the time about equipment of all kinds; amps, cd players, tube amps and anything else under the sun.  In most cases the people who say such things are proved wrong or at least the weight of their reviews are diminished over time as many people who bought into the hype start to see that these claims are full of hot air.  On the other hand, i've never owned a Toshiba unit so i can't rule it out as something i wouldn't mind trying out to see how it stacks up to my current source.  I'll go digging around head-fi and see how well the toshiba 3960 fares in comparison to other sources.  It's been discussed a lot at head-fi as well. 

[Nick Culbreth]

That's precisely my point.  On the other hand, i have my doubts that it sounds better "than a lot of players that approach 10x its price."

I hear this all the time about equipment of all kinds; amps, cd players, tube amps and anything else under the sun.  In most cases the people who say such things are proved wrong or at least the weight of their reviews are diminished over time as many people who bought into the hype start to see that these claims are full of hot air.  On the other hand, i've never owned a Toshiba unit so i can't rule it out as something i wouldn't mind trying out to see how it stacks up to my current source.  I'll go digging around head-fi and see how well the toshiba 3960 fares in comparison to other sources.  It's been discussed a lot at head-fi as well. 

If you have have no experience with the unit why are you even commenting?  From what I've read your only contribution to this discussion is that your source is SOOOO much better and you doubt the the Toshiba could stack up.  Did I miss anything?

I'll chime in a little bit on the Toshiba line, for the money I think they are an excellent value.  I got the chance to compare my stock DV-563a with my brothers Toshiba 4900 with and without an external DAC and I thought the Toshiba outperformed the Pioneer without using the external DAC and was pretty similar with the DAC.  I've also had a chance to compare it with my APL DV-563a and though the APL sounds better to my ears but the Toshiba definately performs much better than I'd expect from a player at it's pricepoint and would have no reservations recommending it as a budget player/transport.

[pfife]

That's precisely my point.  On the other hand, i have my doubts that it sounds better "than a lot of players that approach 10x its price."

I hear this all the time about equipment of all kinds; amps, cd players, tube amps and anything else under the sun.  In most cases the people who say such things are proved wrong or at least the weight of their reviews are diminished over time as many people who bought into the hype start to see that these claims are full of hot air.  On the other hand, i've never owned a Toshiba unit so i can't rule it out as something i wouldn't mind trying out to see how it stacks up to my current source.  I'll go digging around head-fi and see how well the toshiba 3960 fares in comparison to other sources.  It's been discussed a lot at head-fi as well. 

If you have have no experience with the unit why are you even commenting?  From what I've read your only contribution to this discussion is that your source is SOOOO much better and you doubt the the Toshiba could stack up.  Did I miss anything?

I'll chime in a little bit on the Toshiba line, for the money I think they are an excellent value.  I got the chance to compare my stock DV-563a with my brothers Toshiba 4960 with and without an external DAC and I thought the Toshiba outperformed the Pioneer without using the external DAC and was pretty similar with the DAC.  I've also had a chance to compare it with my APL DV-563a and though the APL sounds better to my ears but the Toshiba definately performs much better than I'd expect from a player at it's pricepoint and would have no reservations recommending it as a budget player/transport.

Thanks.  Was the 4960 stock as well?

+t