Topic: zoom h2

[flintstone]

The H2 does a auto track split at 2GB, so a continuous
recording using a 4GB card will result in two big files. 

A card advertised as 4 GB doesn't have that much capacity
after formatting.  It's more like 3.8 GB.

Two channels at 16/44.1 = 635 MB per hour
so a 3.8GB card will hold almost 6 hours of recordings

Two channels at 24/48 =  1037 MB per hour
That's a little more than 3.5 hours of recordings.

Regarding price, 4 GB SDHC cards from A-Data,
Transcend and Ridata cost $35-$40 each.
The 8GB SDHC from the same manufacturers
cost $70-$75.  So there's a slight dollar advantage
going with the 8GB rather than 2 4GB cards.

When flash cards appear in larger sizes, some
people always say, "No way would I trust my recordings
to a 2X card.  I'll stick with my dependable size X card."
First it was 512MB vs 1GB, then 1GB vs 2GB, and
2GB vs 4GB.  Now it's 4GB vs 8GB. 

Don't sweat it. The 8GB cards work OK.  If you need
the space to record at 24/96, or just to record for many
hours, the 8GB card is the answer.

Flintstone

[tedzepplin]

When flash cards appear in larger sizes, some
people always say, "No way would I trust my recordings
to a 2X card.  I'll stick with my dependable size X card."
First it was 512MB vs 1GB, then 1GB vs 2GB, and
2GB vs 4GB.  Now it's 4GB vs 8GB. 

Don't sweat it. The 8GB cards work OK.  If you need
the space to record at 24/96, or just to record for many
hours, the 8GB card is the answer.

My 8GB Transcend card is working fine. no problems.

[wando]

I had initially posted this to "ask the tapesrs" but as I didn't get any reply I am moving it here.

---

Hi guys, first posting here, please be kind.

I have just purchased a Zoom H2 to record West African drumming rehersals and performances.
When I try to record, the mic indicator occasionally blinks (indicating distorsion) regardless of how low I keep the recording levels.
The mic gain is set to low, of course.

The strange thing is that the levels don't seem to have much impact at all on the light blinking unless I set them so high that I reach 0db, in which case it is expected.

Is this a limitation of the mics with very loud noises?
Any suggestion as to how to work around the problem?
I have tried compression but it doesn't make any difference.

Thanks.

[mrsoul]

The H2 does a auto track split at 2GB, so a continuous
recording using a 4GB card will result in two big files. 

I saw a review on Amazon that states there is a space between the two files.  Is there a buffer/cache going on while the 2nd file is started?
Here's the review:
       
1 of 1 people found the following review helpful:
Minor H2 quibbles, September 25, 2007
By    Robert G. Huenemann (Hollister, CA USA) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)   
I am very impressed with the Zoom H2. I have two minor gripes.

The 'mic active' LEDs double as overload indicators. They would be more useful if the 'mic active' LED for the front mic was located on the rear of the unit, and vice versa.

I purchased a 4 SDHC Gigabyte card for my unit. I ran a test at 96 kHz and 24 bit depth. After 1 hour, 2 minutes and 8 seconds, the recorder starts a second file. Unfortunately, this takes several seconds to accomplish.

[tedzepplin]

When I try to record, the mic indicator occasionally blinks (indicating distorsion) regardless of how low I keep the recording levels.

When I first tried recording loud bands with the H2, I also noticed the mic indicator light blinking - indicating that it was overloading, yet the recorded file actually had the levels set too low. So now I just ignore the blinking light and set my levels acording to what the level meters indicate.

[Ozpeter]

There's two things to consider when setting levels on the H2 - first, the level at the mic preamp, and second, the level after the analog to digital converter.  If you get the first one wrong, there's nothing you can do with the second to put it right.

The first level control is the three position switch.  If the little light flashes, reduce the level at the switch.  If the light flashes when on the lowest setting, the level reaching the mics is too high for them to cope with.  Move back if you can, or get the performers to play more quietly!

The 1-127 control is simply amplifying (positive or negative) the digits coming out of the analog to digital converter.  It seems from comments elsewhere that a level of 100 neither amplifies nor reduces level - it's the "straight through" setting.  If you reduce the level below 100 to try to cope with overloads, you'll probably not succeed because the overload has already happened at the mic preamp.  So, don't set a level below 100.  If you increase the level above 100, you're doing the same as using digital zoom on a camera, which is generally held to be a Bad Thing - there's no point in doing it in the H2 if you have the opportunity later to do it in PC audio software.  The outcome will be exactly the same.  If you increase the level in the H2 you might overdo it leading to digital clipping and distortion.  But if you do it in the PC later, your software should be able to scan the already-recorded file and "normalise" it so that the highest peaks exactly reach the top of the meter scale.  You're working with the benefit of hindsight.

The same applies to the limiters etc within the H2 - they apparently work in the digital domain and the only time they should be used is if you can't use a PC to do the same thing later.  So, if you are playing back direct from the H2 and don't have the means to post process the audio in a PC, then use the limiters and increase the level above 100 if you want.  But if you are going to use your PC software for postproduction, leave everything "flat" when recording (level at 100, all effects off), because you can't undo those operations later if you've recorded them in the H2.

Note that all the above comes from reading the net and the manual - I still await the arrival of the H2 here in Australia - so if anyone who has an H2 can correct my advice, go for it!

[wando]

Thanks Ozpeter for the explanation. Since I posted my question I have also found info elsewhere on the net to confirm exactly what you are saying.
Knowing this helps tremendously in trying to obtain a good recoding, however I confess that I find the whole arrangement quite limiting. Perhaps it won't be so in real life.
I guess if this becomes a frequent issue I will be left with two options: Getting a recorder with a better variable analog gain control (through a rocker switch)  or using an external mic with some sort of gain control?

Is this design typical of all budget digital recorders, such as R-09, or is it specific to the H2 and H4?

What is the best way to reduce the gain of an external Mic before it hits the A/D converter of the H2?

[mrsoul]

So 100 is the unity gain for the H2?

[slayer548]

Thank you very much, Ozpeter.  That was well written.

So this opens up the larger can of worms...post production.  What exactly do the limiters do, and how can you recreate that on a PC?  That may be out of the scope of this thread, though.  Any suggestions on a place to go from here?

[Ozpeter]

Recreating the H2 limiter on a PC is reasonably easy if you have suitable software.  Personally I mostly use "Reaper" (www.reaper.fm) for audio post production work.  It currently costs a modest $40 but that's likely to increase shortly when version 2.0 is released - which will be a free upgrade from version 1.0

Once you've installed a program like that which can use VST effects, you can either use the effects that come with it or download others from the net - many of them free.  For instance, the "Classic" range of effects (http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/classic-series.php) includes a very good and simple limiter, as well as a compressor and reverb, etc.  Many other free limiters are available, and compressors, each with their particular characteristics.  Apply limiting or compression after the recording is done does enable you to try the various options non-destructively - using the H2 limiter during recording means you're stuck with the result forever.

But it's often going to be better to normalise the recording - so that the loudest peaks just get to the top of the scale at 0dB - rather than limit.  Limiting does reduce the dynamic range, and typically is used when you're not quite sure how loud the loudest peaks will be.  Normalising can only be done after recording when you know the highest peak, so in postproduction that's the way to get the recording as loud as possible without compressing the original dynamic range between the quietest and loudest parts of the the performance.

As for the relative crudity of the H2 input level control - the three position switch - well, that's one step more than you get with a Hi-MD recorder, which simply offers high and low.  I'm not sure about other such devices.  Small inexpensive rotary input level controls can be hard to set accurately and may give rise to scratchiness in time. 

I believe the switch on the H2 operates in 10dB steps.  That means that the worst possible case would be a recording peaking at say -9.9dB (if you'd raised the sensitivity 10dB you'd have just clipped the recording by .1dB).  That's no disaster, realistically - it means that the digital noise floor will end up 10dB higher than it would if you'd peaked to 0dB but the analog noise floor is going to be much more significant anyway.  And in real-world conditions you'd probably actually occasionally peak a bit higher than -10dB.

I record a lot of classical music, professionally, and on my mic preamp gain control I have made a little red mark which represents the level that in almost all cases I use.  So although I have a rotary control, if it had just one click position at that red mark, it would very often be all that would be required.  That's because if I'm recording a symphony orchestra the main mic pair will be high up and back a bit.  If it's a string quartet, the mics will be much closer.  So the sound level arriving at the mic gets evened out by using the natural attenuation of distance.  Performers ask me what they should play in rehearsal for me to get the levels right, but I tend to tell them that I know the level anyway!  So, if the H2 designers have made a good choice of the preset levels available, it should be no disaster in practice.

[Ozpeter]

Incidentally - Reaper can be installed onto removable USB devices - it doesn't have to be installed onto your actual PC.  So it should be possible to install it onto the H2 itself (it takes little space), so that after recording you could plug the H2 into any PC that comes to hand, run Reaper from the H2, and edit away.  Could be a realistic scenario for reporters in the field.  I've not tried it on the H2 but I have on another USB-enabled recording device.  Neat trick!

[slayer548]

Just wanted to say that I'm really enjoying Reaper, my files are starting to sound even better.

[Ozpeter]

That's good!  The end-user-written manual is actually pretty good, and their forum is helpful and supportive for new users if you run into any problems.

Meanwhile it sounds like my H2 is now in the post to me at last!

[septopus]

Kinda off topic for the way this thread's been moving, but I'm curious...

Is there some sort of foam like a windscreen inside the wire mesh over the mics? I can't tell 100% from the photos I'm looking at.

Also, I keep seeing handling noise come up. Has anyone used oen to record a live show and had it be an issue? (using the internal mics)

[slayer548]

I'm not sure if there is a foam windscreen inside the recorder, but it did come with a slip on foam windscreen...it kinda makes the whole thing look like it has an afro!

I've not had any issues with handling noise during a show, but I also have been recording with it in a mic stand...