Topic: Help improving onstage recording...

[Tall Adam]

Hey all,

So I recently took over a gig recording Wayne Krantz at the 55 Bar in NYC. Its a tiny venue, and there is no PA so its onstage or nothin'. the band is jammed into a corner (see diagram below). I ran XY because I figured any other config would be too spread (all drums left, all guitar right). I ran at about table/guitar amp head height. Upon listening back Wayne (and I) feel that the recording lacks bass and it is a little too "seperated" in his words (i dont really mind the image, but i agree it can be somewhat annoying to have all guitar right, all drums left). We both agree it is better to solve this problem at the source, not in post with a bass boost.

I run SP C4s > UA-5 > IBM t41 (unfortunately at 16/44.1 cuz wayne wants copies he can listen to immediately and i dont feel like sticking around to dither after the show).

Here are my thoughts on how to fix these situations:

1) run ORTF in the same spot, raise the mics more to the 4-5' level so they are above the guitar amp and thus get more bass. My fear with this though is that it will worsen the "too seperate" problem of guitar left, drums right.

2) run ORTF at closer to 6' but angled downwards slightly with a boom as to get more of the bass

3) run spread omnis, 4-5' up, ~10" apart (about the most i can do with my current set up)

SO: what would you guys suggest? any other ideas which may help? Check out the diagram and let me know!

MP3 sample to follow shortly

Thanks!
-Adam

FYI: in the attached diagram, the black sections extend all the way back, as do the tables, it is a long narrow bar.

[Tall Adam]

ok sample wouldnt attach, so i used my webspace and put a longer one up there:

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~aea260/sample1.mp3

[goose]

What did the person that had the gig before you do that was satisfactory?

[Tall Adam]

no idea...i know he runs schoeps though...

[Tall Adam]

FWIW, where I was sitting (see diagram) I couldnt hear the bass player much (which is a shame cuz he was SICK) and I have made Wayne aware of this. The recording sounds much like my seat did.

[ashevillain]

1) run ORTF in the same spot, raise the mics more to the 4-5' level so they are above the guitar amp and thus get more bass. My fear with this though is that it will worsen the "too seperate" problem of guitar left, drums right.

2) run ORTF at closer to 6' but angled downwards slightly with a boom as to get more of the bass

ORTF is definitely gonna exaggerate the stereo separation but IME does give better bass response than X-Y.

3) run spread omnis, 4-5' up, ~10' apart (about the most i can do with my current set up)

How wide is the stage? This is the option I would choose but I don't think I'd split them 10' at that close distance...more like 2' or 3' at the most.

[Tall Adam]

"stage" is as wide as a drumset and a marshall cab. literally, next to the cab is the walking space to the bathroom, behind the corner where the band plays.

shit i meant 10 inches, ill fix that

[Tall Adam]

bump^ anyone got any help for me?

[kgreener]

i'm not gonna be any help with this as i've never stage-taped, so i'll leave it to the experts.  but any chance this Krantz stuff is available for sharing?  or is it just for his own purposes?

agreed.  this is some sick stuff, and i'd love to get a copy!  if not, i do understand though.

+T for your recording gig, and good luck with improving your on-stage recordings.

[Tall Adam]

krantz's stuff is only available via his website, it think its 4.95 per set, mp3 downloads.

[NJFunk]

How about running the Omni caps on the C4's instead of the Cards?  That would certainly take care of the separation issue, and I think it wold help the bass response as well.

[Tall Adam]

yeah im thinkin i may try spreading the omnis and running a bit higher, will cause less seperation for sure, and probably get more bass if im above the guitar cab. also...thoughts on omnis spread, i know it doesnt matter in theory but: facing forwards, or NOS style?

thanks to all whove pitched in +ts

[Tim]

I've always found that I get more bass in my stage tapes the *lower* I run my stand.

without seeing your stage setup in person it's hard to say if it will work for you but it's something to consider. I've always noticed this no matter the stage setup or band...

[Tall Adam]

hmm, interesting....did the diagram do any good in helping you understand the set up? anyone else have thoughts on this lower instead of higher idea?

[Tim]

is the guitar amp up on a stand? is it kicked back on legs at an angle? What about the bass amp, is it just 1 15" or is it a 4x10" or some combination of the two?