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Author Topic: 722 First Impressions  (Read 25171 times)

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Offline dmonterisi

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Re: 722 First Impressions
« Reply #75 on: April 30, 2005, 11:14:25 AM »
see that wasn't so hard ;)

but you just compared your tape to an MG source of a different show at a different venue with a different PA, and different microphone locations and configurations.

your respnse was nothing more than why you like the DPA's.

you can see where this is going, hence my joke post above ;)



but the post was in response to a post that said something about MG's outperforming dpa's for loud rock shows or something.  so it's not off the mark to talk about my experience using the mics to tape a loud rock show.  very frew of our comments on gear are based on controlled comparisons with all the gear on 1 stand, except for the piece we are comparing.  and i personally don't think those comparisons tell you much other than which piece of gear sounded a certain way on a given night.

i think most of us who listen critically are able to distinguish how a different piece of gear colors a given sound, based on listening to numerous sources critically and listening for common traits.  for example, i've heard many 4022>v3, mk4>v3, 140>v3 and u89>v3 tapes, since i ran the 4022's, 140's and 89's and have downloaded tons of mk4>v3 tapes.  from listening to many different examples of this gear used in different environments, i feel that i am able to identify traits about each of these setups that makes them identifiable.  so, to me, it's not about controlled comparisons to compare gear, but about long term listening to similar gear run in different places.  ymmv.

Offline dmonterisi

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Re: 722 First Impressions
« Reply #76 on: April 30, 2005, 11:18:24 AM »
well, i personally think the the non-colored off-axis response of the dpa's/b&k's really gives presence to loud rock recordings and the visceral impact they have.  one of my favorite tapes that i made with the 4022's (and one of the first) is the my morning jacket show from 1/31/04 @ 9:30 club (4022>v3).  the tape, imo, really captures the edge, presence and impact of the band and its sound incredibly well.  don't get me wrong, i *heart* nick's tapes of mmj from the same tour and they are without a doubt the best MG tapes i have heard.  but, i actually like my 930 tapes a bit better just because of the stark and non-colored nature of the tape, it really conveys what i heard and felt that night at the show.  I think the MG's smooth out the tape a little bit, which will be to some people's preference, but i like the unadulterated sound of the 4022's.  as usual, IMO, YMMV, yadda, yadda...

Damon, what will a pair of those go for about??I was lookin at 4061s, but dont really want omnis. I want some dpas as a stealth set. Think theyd go well with a m2??I hope to own all my new gear by mid summer.

Ray

i bought and sold my 4022's for about $2300 for the pair with the xy/ortf mount.  like all other european mics, their price has gone up retail so i don't know how that has affected used prices.

what's an m2?  are you referring to an mp2?  i have only heard 1 4022>mp2 source i think and it was stealth and it sounded nice.  i think it was scott brown who used to run that as his stealth rig, you should ask him.

Offline Brian

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Re: 722 First Impressions
« Reply #77 on: April 30, 2005, 11:23:13 AM »
i think most of us who listen critically are able to distinguish how a different piece of gear colors a given sound, based on listening to numerous sources critically and listening for common traits. for example, i've heard many 4022>v3, mk4>v3, 140>v3 and u89>v3 tapes, since i ran the 4022's, 140's and 89's and have downloaded tons of mk4>v3 tapes. from listening to many different examples of this gear used in different environments, i feel that i am able to identify traits about each of these setups that makes them identifiable. so, to me, it's not about controlled comparisons to compare gear, but about long term listening to similar gear run in different places. ymmv.

most definitely agree.  whatever piece of gear "wins out" over many variables is the one you like .  Was that your point?  that after all of these "critical" listens you always end up preferring the DPA/B+K  sources?

edit:  have you tested your ears?  for all i know you can't hear past 12k :P  having a good set of ears lends to making the listen more "critical" IMO.  I can't hear past 19k FWIW.

Ray76

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Re: 722 First Impressions
« Reply #78 on: April 30, 2005, 11:24:09 AM »
sonosax m2
Thanks for the info bud. Just trying to get a good gauge on prices. I am set on my open mics, but deciding on the stealth ones is gettin me. +T bud.

Ray

Offline dmonterisi

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Re: 722 First Impressions
« Reply #79 on: April 30, 2005, 11:29:32 AM »
i think most of us who listen critically are able to distinguish how a different piece of gear colors a given sound, based on listening to numerous sources critically and listening for common traits. for example, i've heard many 4022>v3, mk4>v3, 140>v3 and u89>v3 tapes, since i ran the 4022's, 140's and 89's and have downloaded tons of mk4>v3 tapes. from listening to many different examples of this gear used in different environments, i feel that i am able to identify traits about each of these setups that makes them identifiable. so, to me, it's not about controlled comparisons to compare gear, but about long term listening to similar gear run in different places. ymmv.

most definitely agree.  whatever piece of gear "wins out" over many variables is the one you like .  Was that your point?  that after all of these "critical" listens you always end up preferring the DPA/B+K  sources?

edit:  have you tested your ears?  for all i know you can't hear past 12k :P  having a good set of ears lends to making the listen more "critical" IMO.  I can't hear past 19k FWIW.

fuck off, no i have not tested my ears, what good would that do me?  i can't get an ear transplant, can I? :P

my point, in this limited context was that I really like the 4022's for recording loud rock shows.  I do not always end up preferring the dpa's over the other sources, but as far as purchasing mics again, they would certainly be my first choice.  this is a post from a thread a while back discussing schoeps v. dpa's:

Quote
if you're gonna be doing TS section in arenas, don't even bother with the 4022's.  you'll be pissed.  if you are goona go up front or tape in good spots, you can't beat the 4022's.  i hate to sound like Mel Kiper, but the 4022's have an unmatched upside.  on any given night, you can pull the best tape you've ever heard if the sound is good and the mix is good.  but they're not as consistent.  to me, i like the upside, as there is almost always another taper if i'm not happy, but the chances of bringing home the heat on a given night make it worthwhile.  depends what you want.

so i guess what i'm saying overall is that, 1) I don't think it's true that the dpa's are inferior for taping loud rock shows, 2) controlled gear comparisons are not of much use to me, 3) no piece of gear, whether mic or pre or a/d is always the best in all situations, but 4) I prefer the transparency of the 4022's in capturing what you hear. 

i'm not even sure if i'm making sense at this point, you've got me twisting in the wind and all I did was agree with natelsky. 8)

Offline Brian

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Re: 722 First Impressions
« Reply #80 on: April 30, 2005, 11:35:49 AM »
fuck off? :o check yourself before you riggity wreck yourself. :P  the only reason i asked is because i wouldn't consider your listens "critical" if you can't hear past 10k.  that's all

sorry for getting you "twisted in the wind".

microphone selection is like music......it's all subjective

and this whole time i was hoping marc would have replied and not you ;D

Offline dmonterisi

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Re: 722 First Impressions
« Reply #81 on: April 30, 2005, 11:55:40 AM »
sonosax m2
Thanks for the info bud. Just trying to get a good gauge on prices. I am set on my open mics, but deciding on the stealth ones is gettin me. +T bud.

Ray

ah, the sax sx-m2...i don't know if i've heard the combo specifically, but i'm sure it would sound good.  the sax will fatten up the bottom end and warm up the tone overall, but i think you'd lose a touch of detail, but nothing to freak out about.  definitely a good stealth option.

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Re: 722 First Impressions
« Reply #82 on: April 30, 2005, 11:56:56 AM »
sonosax m2
Thanks for the info bud. Just trying to get a good gauge on prices. I am set on my open mics, but deciding on the stealth ones is gettin me. +T bud.

Ray

ah, the sax sx-m2...i don't know if i've heard the combo specifically, but i'm sure it would sound good.  the sax will fatten up the bottom end and warm up the tone overall, but i think you'd lose a touch of detail, but nothing to freak out about.  definitely a good stealth option.

Im tending to like warmth, specially after hearing some tapes with my wmod ua5.
Thanks again Damon. You the man.

Ray

Offline dmonterisi

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Re: 722 First Impressions
« Reply #83 on: April 30, 2005, 11:57:16 AM »
fuck off? :o check yourself before you riggity wreck yourself. :P  the only reason i asked is because i wouldn't consider your listens "critical" if you can't hear past 10k.  that's all

sorry for getting you "twisted in the wind".

microphone selection is like music......it's all subjective

and this whole time i was hoping marc would have replied and not you ;D

just fucking around...no doubt it's all subjective and that's part of what i was trying to say.  but who really knows what i'm trying to say anymore. 

Offline Brian

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Re: 722 First Impressions
« Reply #84 on: April 30, 2005, 12:03:12 PM »
i know...i was too.  i know what you were trying to say.

that DPA's rule your face......which they do ;D

Offline MattD

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Re: 722 First Impressions
« Reply #85 on: April 30, 2005, 12:42:54 PM »
sonosax m2
Thanks for the info bud. Just trying to get a good gauge on prices. I am set on my open mics, but deciding on the stealth ones is gettin me. +T bud.

Ray

ah, the sax sx-m2...i don't know if i've heard the combo specifically, but i'm sure it would sound good.  the sax will fatten up the bottom end and warm up the tone overall, but i think you'd lose a touch of detail, but nothing to freak out about.  definitely a good stealth option.

Im tending to like warmth, specially after hearing some tapes with my wmod ua5.
Thanks again Damon. You the man.

Ray


George Wang runs 4022 > SX-M2 (> mod SBM-1?). I like that preamp a lot. Sorry about starting the mic war, I was just trying to be diplomatic with Nick.

Anyway, 4021s sound better than 4022s :P
Out of the game … for now?

Offline dmonterisi

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Re: 722 First Impressions
« Reply #86 on: April 30, 2005, 12:43:52 PM »
sonosax m2
Thanks for the info bud. Just trying to get a good gauge on prices. I am set on my open mics, but deciding on the stealth ones is gettin me. +T bud.

Ray

ah, the sax sx-m2...i don't know if i've heard the combo specifically, but i'm sure it would sound good.  the sax will fatten up the bottom end and warm up the tone overall, but i think you'd lose a touch of detail, but nothing to freak out about.  definitely a good stealth option.

Im tending to like warmth, specially after hearing some tapes with my wmod ua5.
Thanks again Damon. You the man.

Ray


George Wang runs 4022 > SX-M2 (> mod SBM-1?). I like that preamp a lot. Sorry about starting the mic war, I was just trying to be diplomatic with Nick.

Anyway, 4021s sound better than 4022s :P

no need to apologize, what else would we geeks talk about?

Ray76

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Re: 722 First Impressions
« Reply #87 on: April 30, 2005, 12:56:06 PM »
sonosax m2
Thanks for the info bud. Just trying to get a good gauge on prices. I am set on my open mics, but deciding on the stealth ones is gettin me. +T bud.

Ray

ah, the sax sx-m2...i don't know if i've heard the combo specifically, but i'm sure it would sound good.  the sax will fatten up the bottom end and warm up the tone overall, but i think you'd lose a touch of detail, but nothing to freak out about.  definitely a good stealth option.

Im tending to like warmth, specially after hearing some tapes with my wmod ua5.
Thanks again Damon. You the man.

Ray


George Wang runs 4022 > SX-M2 (> mod SBM-1?). I like that preamp a lot. Sorry about starting the mic war, I was just trying to be diplomatic with Nick.

Anyway, 4021s sound better than 4022s :P

I havent heard much 4021 stuff, but a lot of 4022s. Im gonna hit up gewwang. thanks yall.
Ray

Offline scb

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Re: 722 First Impressions
« Reply #88 on: April 30, 2005, 01:10:43 PM »
4021s and 4022s are the same mic.  the cable just comes out of the 21s at a right angle, vs straight out the back on 4022s

Offline nickgregory

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Re: 722 First Impressions
« Reply #89 on: April 30, 2005, 01:27:31 PM »
bunch of angry bastards...if you guys had ears as pristine as mine you would hear the MGs rock :P

seriously...it is as true here as anywhere, all depends on what you like to hear from your tapes...I prefer the MGs, but a very close second is the 4022s....imo, the MGs just do a better job at bassy shows because while the bass can be overloading, the M20s have a tendency to emphasize the upper end a little better, which creates a more smooth recording imo.   But what the hell do I know anyway, I have wrecked my hearing so much I have to wear earplugs at alot of shows now :P

 

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