Topic: The sound of Nak mics

[charles]

Ever tried using the roll of and making minor eq adjustments during edit?

[ts]

The roll off on the mic didn't work too well. Used it once myself and was not pleased. The only thing that gets me with my Naks is the boomy bass at times. I've been using HP1 on my V3 with my CM1000's(no roll off on the mic body)to compensate for it. Good idea to hijack this one.

[Busman Audio]

I understand what your saying about wanting to run a rig of your own but that is not what I'm talking about or trying to hint at.

What I'm saying is that on its own merit Nak mics, IMO, are extremely colored, however others seem to like their sound. (I'm not talking about colored in a pleasing way either) They seem to do more wrong than they do right.

After taping for 23 years I have been fortunate to buy what I want in recording gear. I don't think it necessary for me to list what I run since it is not related to what I'm talking about. But trust me I can afford almost any mic I choose.

If I was starting out today there are plenty of mics I would choose over the Naks in the same price range that don't do as much wrong as the Naks do.

An example would be any model AKG mic, many AT's and the cheap mini DPA's.

I remember taping Arlo Guthrie in 1983 with a d-6 and dynamic AT's that sounded better overall than Naks, and those were some rough sounding mics.

Your examples are not in the same price range as a set of Naks. I am currently selling a CM300 set with the CP1 and CP2 caps for $250. None of the mics you listed are in that price range.  Just pointing out that you have your facts wrong.

[shaggy]

I don't mean to be flaming but rather wonder if I am the only person who finds Nak mics, CM 100/300 and 700 the most over hyped mics ever made.

They are the most BASHED mics ever made, mate!

Please take a moment and go here:

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=17312

download BIODTL or Candyman, please

There is a SBD of this show and YET people were so grateful I recorded this and transcribed it to archive.org.....I don't think you can say that Naks are overrated.  For this and many other shows there are NO other audience sources.  

So, what would you rather have, cheap whiskey or dick?

Let's put an end to this shit.  Can we just post examples of shows we really like here?  

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=34375.0

Please use archive.org link so we can make it easier for the nay-sayers.

[rockumal]

So on the flip side what mics do you like?  I think I know what you mean about the Nak sound (although I don't mind it) telling us what you do like might help paint a more complete picture...

[d5]

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=17312

Ah, the Jerry come back from death's door step shows... the weather sucked, but they were fun shows never the less

[shaggy]

So on the flip side what mics do you like? I think I know what you mean about the Nak sound (although I don't mind it) telling us what you do like might help paint a more complete picture...

Who cares what he thinks, he is trying to stir the pot.  Naks are relevant to the history of taping, they most certainly are not overrated, just talked about hugely do to the fact they are the MOST used mikes over the years.

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=17312

Ah, the Jerry come back from death's door step shows... the weather sucked, but they were fun shows never the less

The Candyman is amazing, listen to the audience!  No SBD of that show gives you that 'warm and fuzzy' feeling, eh? 

Nay sayers: GO ON and DL IT!
 

[ts]

Hey Andy, I taped those shows too. Just dug out my dat copies from cassette. Haven't burned 'em to CD yet. I was towards the back of the OTS and was using the usual back then, CM304's>D5M. Did the New Years run too. Although my favorite New Years taping was '83, end of '86 was BIG fun, and Man this Nak talk is even more fun .
ts

[shaggy]

I agree with the statements he made about the sonic charactersitics, except the comments about the high 'splash' end bit and the mids 'edginess' bit.  The lows can be loose and undefined.  What I fucking hate to hear is that they are overrated!  What an opening to 'stir the pot'!  It is like saying the NY Yankees are overated!  They are simply the most loved and despised Baseball team in history due to their popularity.  Same applies to Naks.  They certainly have a 'flavor', all mics do...you are totally fooling youself if you believe the higher end stuff like Schoeps and Neumanns aren't 'flavored'.  Believe me, I have whored around the section looking for a patch from mics that will be most suitable for the hall or situation.  Back in the 80's, you didn't see Schoeps or Neumanns flying at every single show, BUT you could always find a pair of Naks or Senns (and they sounded worse than Naks in the section, IMHO).

Now check this shit out, leegeddy (Marc Kim) mods them to be like 'actives'.  So, are we gonna keep on hearing how much they 'suck' or how 'overrated' they are?  You can bet the FARM we are going to never hear the end of how overrated' they are now.  Why?  B/C not everybody has the dime to drop on those german mics.  The more choices we have, the more shit is gonna get taped, be it with a 'statue of liberty' RS vocal mic > WM-D3 or insert your favorite mic here > insert your favorite mic-pre here > insert your favorite D/A here or analog recording device here etc etc....

On another note, 'What made these have mass appeal?' would be the better rephrase of the question!  Rethink your statements and have better judgement before you start to piss the crowd off, stlgoat.  I think Nak did a great thing by introducing electret mics at a price that was most certainly affordable.  These mics HELPED MAKE the taping scene!  You are talking about a company with a major reputation back then, you think they would sully their name with an inferior sounding mic?  Look on ebay, they still fetch $200+ a pair!  Probably went up a tad bit now Marc is modding them.  Twenty year old plus garage sale 'colored' japanese  mics!  Only mics I know that hold value like that....well, you know...those german mics!  Need I say more?  Have you listened to the example I posted?  That show, if you need any reminding is nearly 20 years old!!!

I am venting....I do apologize.  I have had a rough week with my new job.  Off of my sopabox...(hops off).  Stlfan, this is all in jest, I hope you understand that words can be like little knives.  Be careful with the words you use, especially since you are a newB.

Hey Andy, I taped those shows too. Just dug out my dat copies from cassette. Haven't burned 'em to CD yet. I was towards the back of the OTS and was using the usual back then, CM304's>D5M. Did the New Years run too. Although my favorite New Years taping was '83, end of '86 was BIG fun, and Man this Nak talk is even more fun .
ts

Yes, it is STILL fun. I am so happy to hear that people who are on this board actually TAPED back then and have a better understanding of this Nak phenominon.   I taped at one of the very first GD shows where there was a sanctioned taping section, BCT 10/28/1984!

Tony, you should transfer the show 12/15/1986 show and get it up.  The reason I seeded it was there was no audience of 12-15-1986 circulating in the digital age.  I remedied that, and for that I am proud of my past Nak heritage.  I actually like that tape alot too...it has the most atmospheric Nak sound I have ever heard; could be the 10 feet seperation between the mics! 

ANDY

[leegeddy]

i've always liked the sound of recordings made with cm300>d5/d6/dat, and i'll always will. not much more to add than that.

marc

[jazzunit]

Hey All,

I saw this thread and felt compelled to post. Personally, I think the Nak's have a tight, narrow sound, which is good.  I've heard countless tapes done with naks that are just devistating and I think it often just boils down to location, location, location.

I do think that there were/are a couple of user errors that often plagued inexperienced Nak users. These being:.

1) The -10db attenuators weren't used, causing the mics pre amp to be over modulated and thus distorted at high SPL shows.

2) Tapers trying to use the the shotgun caps on the CM100 bodies, completely eliminating the pre amp & attenuator circuitry which would often cause distortion on peaks.  anybody else experience this?

Otherwise, I do agree that the Naks are respectable mics and definately helped forge the taping community we know today.

On a related note, I always thought that the Tascam PE-125 was a dead ringer for the Nak CM300 right down to the last resistor. Anybody agree?

Dave

[shaggy]

Tascam PE-125, Teac ME-120 and Nak CM-300 are the same exact thing but just rebranded!  More proof that these companies that have a stake in their brand name recogntion chose these Primo mics for a good reason.  Any more testments to this mic would be appreciated.

[jessedscott]

For some reason, I got rid of my CM300's and kept my 100's. I like the sound of the 100's better for some reason? They seem more bright to me. Maybe a little more "clear". Again, just the way I hear it. I think the 300's handle bass a little better, imo. Not that the 100's don't.


Also, with the use of better pre's and AD's, what's not to like....


I will get around to BTing my Phish IT. 3 Nak's 2 304's and 1 302>pmod UA5>D8, from the section. Brian Costigan, at one time, had them for download when he had phatphiles up and running. Lot of people loved the the sound. I wouldn't mind trying the 700's or the 1000's either. That is if someone would let me barrow them for a couple of shows.

[shaggy]

JDS, it is true.  The CM-100s have less of the overdrivng bass than the CM-300s.  In fact, those of you who DL'd the 12-15-1986 show will note the absence of the thundering bass...no lo cut was employed....but we were using a pair of CM-100s!  I think they were pretty cheap,  the typical selling price for a new single CM-100 was in the range of $150-200 a mic, I believe.  The CM-300s were $200-250 a piece.  Remember, we are talking 80's prices!

Tim, Marc's STS9 recording is pretty tight!  Those franken-Naks do rock!  Can't believe I sold all my Nak gear!  Gonna have to pick another pair up at some point or go and get JK active box for these CK61 caps.

Jazzunit , good point on the attenuation!  Many of the non-Dead realted up front shows suffer from this problem.  Need the -10dB cut or the max SPLs was in the 120dB range. 

+T to you all for chiming in.  Naks still have a place in our community.

[peterbilt]

I like the Nak 300's.

I prefer to run them on stage if possible, but from a small distance from the stage (without a CRUSHING volume) they also present a nice representation of what i have heard that evening. Granted, I tape in small venues, but i have only on a few occasions found the "boomy" bottom to be to much, and that was predominantly an on stage issue more than the mics.

The splashiness that was mentioned...well I must admit that it may present a more annoying tone to folks taping in bigger venues, but with my experience, they recreate the sound of a cymbal that I heard in the room, not the crystal clear piercing tone that was heard exactly where my mics were placed (does anyone know what I'm on about here?). So yes, there may be some coloration to them, but for my needs and likes, they are just right sometimes.

The mid issue...no way (for my head anyway). I have always been happy with the way the 300's recreate these tones on playback.

So IMO, the 300's are great, and I plan to keep the ones I have for quite a long time.





But I still can't wait to get those MBHO's in my house